[masonkr]

Ok, here's my question.

I have a whole 5.8hrs in an R-22, and I still feel like it flies me, not the other way around. Yeah, I know that it takes time to get the "touch" but, how long until one day I just realize that I am in control of the A/C? I have somewhat of and addictive personality, with that being said I feel disappointed when everything seems to just want to to work in opposite of each other, and I can't make it all just work together. I spend most of my off time in the sim trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I know that sim time is not like actual flight however, there has to be something that I can do to make my body just realize that it should do this when this does that...

I know that it will come, I just needed to vent I guess.

This post has been edited by masonkr: 06 February 2010 - 13:06

[500E]

Longer

I Have never managed M flight sim for longer than 20 seconds just cant get the hang of it, always crash & burn, manage the real thing though but longer than 6 hours.
Just keep paying the bill the learning curve goes up as the bank balance comes down, hopefully they cross before the ground, its worse than drink, drugs ,or girls, but can get you into as much trouble,, Good Luck

[kodoz]

For the first 10 hrs, hovering will be like riding a mechanical bull. You'll get it though...you're body just has to begin to perceive the minuscule change in attitude, and your muscles have to learn to make fine inputs. The R22 is very twitchy, but by the end of your PPL you'll feel pretty good. From there on, things will just click into place, and you'll realize increasing levels of confidence and mastery. You'll probably also continue to have days when nothing goes well and you feel awful.

There are some things your instructor can do. I put together a series of lesson plans on hovering to help both students and instructors. My instructors didn't know any of these techniques...they were taught to hover just by control isolation and brute force. But I talked to several high-time instructors who had a few tricks that I wished I'd have known. These things could help you get there more quickly and confidently.

Oh, and consider losing the sim. It just isn't the same as the real thing. I found that even after my PPL, getting on the sim for IFR training was still difficult. The models in MS Flight Sim just don't get helicopters right, and you end up having to learn how to fly the sim.

[Snowman]

When I started to learn to hover it was like a roller coaster, I was everywhere, and I didn’t think I would ever get it. Now at 20 hours I can hover, pick up and set down with a reasonable amount of control, should be soloing soon. Hang in there and keep flying! For my two cents I would work with the real thing for now and skip the sim.

[masonkr]

I use the sim just to get approaches down, I do fine until about the last 30 feet, then it all goes to crap "pull power" I pull too much "left pedal" I either don't put enough or I put too much and we yaw all over the place, I can pick up some what reasonable however, sitdowns are quite a different story. I spent almost 4hrs the other day flying a 1.7 the first flight and 2.0 the second, and I could "kinda" hover as long as he had the pedals.

But, as you have all said, you have to learn to fly the sim, because it is way different than anything in the A/C but I guess I get to fly. Beats sitting behind a desk on a lovely day

[Pohi]

I would have to agree with pretty much everybody else here so far. The sim is good for fundamentals, but that is about all. As far as learning how to hover and fly, there is nothing quite like the real thing.

The amount of time it takes to learn how to hover depends on the student and the instructor. Some combinations take longer than others, but it is important to not loose sight of progress that happens along the way. A 5 second hover turns into 10, 20, 30 etc. Sometimes it is easy to be so focused on sitting over one spot flawlessly that a person can forget that they are doing something(that they are taking for granted, or not thinking about) that they could not do the previous hour.

Frustration is the name of the game in the beginning of helicopter flight training.

[Pohi]

masonkr, on Feb 6 2010, 11:20 , said:

I spent almost 4hrs the other day flying a 1.7 the first flight and 2.0 the second, and I could "kinda" hover as long as he had the pedals.

Those are pretty long flights for the very beginning. Everybody does things different, I realize, but I usually find that after more than 45min to an hour in the very beginning, the student gets saturated and the amount learned goes down the pooper.

Good luck though, it will come together.

[delorean]

Quit screwing around with MS Flight Sim......if it provided ANY benefit whatsoever you would see it in the helicopter training world.

Think about it like learning to ride a bike.......

-You can study all the physics and workings of a bike, it's not going to help
-You could be a bicycle mechanic and know every inner working, but it's not going to help.
-Your father could be Lance Armstrong, it's still not going to help.
-You could play "Paperboy" eight hours a day on the original NES, but it's not going to help you.

Get it? It's all balance and muscle memory. The sooner you forget about all this stuff, the better you'll do. If you sit there and overanalyze everything you do, you're already behind the curve.

Clear you mind and fly the freakin helicopter.

[masonkr]

Got it, basically quit whining and fly.

[deerock]

yeah, but actually FLY, not the sim. you are wasting your time. use the SIM later on in your training

[rotorrodent]

masonkr, on Feb 6 2010, 09:58 , said:

Ok, here's my question.

I have a whole 5.8hrs in an R-22, and I still feel like it flies me, not the other way around. Yeah, I know that it takes time to get the "touch" but, how long until one day I just realize that I am in control of the A/C? I have somewhat of and addictive personality, with that being said I feel disappointed when everything seems to just want to to work in opposite of each other, and I can't make it all just work together. I spend most of my off time in the sim trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I know that sim time is not like actual flight however, there has to be something that I can do to make my body just realize that it should do this when this does that...

I know that it will come, I just needed to vent I guess.

I know what you mean...you should have seen one of my very first posts on this forum when I couldn't hover within 5 sq mi! I was very frustrated and venting as well.

I am now a CFI... You will get through it, and you will figure it out. Be patient and let your determination take you through it.

Like everyone else will say, it will come and you will be the master.

Cheers

Rotorrodent

[yzchopper]

I found that there is one thing 90% of my students forget to do and most don't even realize that they do it???? BREATHE.... When you are trying so hard and concentrating to do something you end up holding your breath therefore your constricting blood flow. When you do this your muscles tense up and then you really begin to over control and then you become exhausted from flying only after an hour. The same thing happens to professional motox and superx racers. That is why they get arm pump. You tense up from not breathing. RELAX.... you will notice that once you relax and tell yourself to breathe things will slow down and then you will get caught up and not be behind and over controlling. It will take some time and getting use to but it will come to you. When my students did this they were hovering by the end of the next flight. Remember... BREATHE, RELAX and small control inputs. Good luck

Steve

[Snowman]

... BREATHE, RELAX and small control inputs. Good luck

Steve
[/quote]


Yep thats the truth!

[Gomer Pylot]

It's almost exactly like learning to ride a bicycle. It's impossible until suddenly it's easy. How long is different for everyone. Just keep at it, and one day you'll get it, and be able to hover.

[Inferno]

Lol, yup, the moment you get it right, it just feels amazing. Then you start thinking" I'm hovering!". As soon as you do that, it all goes to hell again. Just relax and make very slight pressure inputs. You will get the hang of it.

[23cmc77]

I'm still quite new but I have yet to see or hear of a "natural" helicopter pilot. I had delusions that I would be the "one" for about 1/2 statute seconds into my first hovering lesson.
I see it much like learning to ride a bike,

you can't do it until you stop thinking about it, but you can't stop thinking about it until you can do it.

It was also interesting that in the beginning you feel like you have to move the cyclic like crazy, and then when you get it down, you don't feel yourself moving it at all!

Breathe, relax, and don't beat yourself up.

[ADRidge]

I will also second the "breathe" advice. I've just gotten back in the saddle after 7 months, and the first two days were like I was a PPL candidate again. I don't have ALOT of time, but I figured after 198 hours I'd be able to fly for an hour and change and not tense up. When you feel your arm tense up and all those muscles are screaming at you, take a second. Give the controls to your instructor, count to ten and take a few deep breaths, then get back to it. Chances are, you'll come back with a relaxed body and you'll find it easier to make those small corrections.

Look, at 5.8 hours it's perfectly natural to wonder if you'll ever figure this damn helicopter thing out. I didn't feel completely at home with the helicopter until shortly before my commercial check ride. Relax and go fly.

[John90290]

On the relax theme, I noticed on the "Autorotation in the R-22" DVD that the former Chief Robinson test pilot that does all the f lying has this habit of relaxing his grip on the cyclic. It looks like a tic before each maneuver he is about to execute. Check it out if you have the video, it's a nice habit I've been building as well and you will be amazed how many times I've had a death grip during an approach that was going to crap and then once I relaxed my grip, it improved.

Hang in there , spend a bit more money and one day you will forget those early concerns and be worried about nailing 180 autos and slope landings...

[ironranger]

After my first couple of lessons I felt just like you explain so instead of practicing on MS FS I bought a $200.00 R/C Helicopter. Had a big audience including my kids and their cousins......Got it light on the skids.....................picked up off the ground...............and then it looked just like the rotorway dynamic roll over video someone posted a couple of weeks ago. It turned into an instant pile of junk. I lost my pride and spent the rest of my money on lessons. A pilot friend of mine at the time explained to me " if I can fly a helicopter so can you" and he was right ....eventually...LOL, now I have my own helicopter and have a lot of fun. The trick is not to put pressure on yourself and eventually like Gomer mentions it will just come to you. Have Fun and enjoy learning.

IR

[MLH]

"I have a whole 5.8hrs in an R-22, and I still feel like it flies me..."

I learned in a H300C. I asked my instructor if I could try out an R22 after my first solo in the 300, he said no way because I'd accuse him of not teaching me anything. I finally got to fly one after my check ride and noticed a big difference in response. If you can fly an R22, you can fly anything.

Mike