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Army Vs Civilian Flying


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Well its about that time where I need to decide what Im going to do. Im 20 and almost finished with my AA at a Jr College but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding if want to pursue helicopters in the civilian or miltary. My plan right now is to apply to the Army WOFT program and if I do not get accepted I'll start flight training as soon as possible in the civilian world. I'm basically looking for some thoughts from those who have been on both sides of the industry about whether on the right track of what the military and civilian pilot lifestyles are like and what kind of person fits in where.

 

 

Army Side:

Good things- Sense of pride/acheivment, hours, learning from experienced pilots, benefits, stability, structure, comradery, and flying low and fast sounds fun

 

Bad things- Alot of time must be put into WOFT packet of which I may not be qualified for, long deployments in the shitholes of the planet, and probably being shot at.

 

Civilian Side:

Good things- More freedom, work in amazing places, get to travel, some ability to choose where, when and what you fly

 

Bad things- Probably poor or no benefits, Expensive (though my parents have said they would help) , top ramen, and I imagine one could get tired of nomadic lifestyle.

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Jeff,

 

Welcome to the world of helos! You've chosen a pretty awesome industry to get into.  I started out getting my commercial in the civilian world, then after I graduated college, I took a commission in the Army and I'm now I'm working for them.  Both routes are really good, and I've had and am having great experiences in both.  The only thing I have to add to your statements is why do you exactly want to go fly in the military?  If it's just for the free training and a couple years of fun, you may want to consider the civilian route.  Granted, the training is top notch, but in comparison to your civilian counterparts, you may not get the flight time that they do.  You will also have to face a desk job at some point in your career (even as a warrant officer) and many of the units in the Army are overstrength with pilots; meaning you don't fly.  True, there are many great benefits to military life, but I suggest you do it because you want to serve, not because you want a handout.

 

With that said, I'll give you my opinion on either/or.  I love not having to eat ramen or dig for change in my couch for gas anymore, but part of me still misses all the freedom and the relaxed atmosphere of the civilian side.  However, my 30 days paid vacation annually kind of makes up for that:)  I recommended you try some civilian time first off and see if you even like flying; just to be safe.  At the same, put your packet together and don't let the recruiters toss you around.  If they won't give you a slot, then you already have some flight time locked in as a civilian.  You can't lose either way.  

 

One more thing.  You already have an AA, I recommend you go all the way and get a Bachelor's.  It looks great on a resume, and there are several flight schools that are affiliated with a college (UVSC, Bridgewater State, etc)  that allows your flight experience to go toward your degree!  When you go for the better jobs down the road, this WILL make you stand out from your peers.

 

Good luck man, if you'd like to discuss this more just PM me and we can discuss it over the phone or something.  Have fun out there and be safe!

 

Alex

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Alex,

 

Firstly, let me thank you for hitting on all of my concerns. I read your reply last night and decided to sleep on it, especially about why I want to fly in the military. There is a part of me that wants to serve, but I would not say it is an overwhelming motive. I think it is alot of it is the fact that the military could keep me on my feet if I became unable to fly. Mostly I just want to fly, I have no rotor time but I do have my fixed wing PPL. As for liking flying, I do, I have no question about it.

 

So as for your idea of trying civilian flying first while applying for WOFT; I think that it would really test if my desire to serve is strong enough and at the same time like you said, allow me to see if I like the civilian lifestyle. I'll think about it some more, I still have a few months to decide.

 

About the Bachelor's degree though, I don't disagree with you but I can say what a joke college has been so far.

College = Me making loud demotivated ugghh sound.

 

Thanks again Alex for your time and input,

 

Jeff

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About the Bachelor's degree though, I don't disagree with you but I can say what a joke college has been so far.

College = Me making loud demotivated ugghh sound.

you could always try to become an aerospace engineer...i guess they still get demotivated, but thats because they are helplessly watching their GPA's enter a vertical plummet  :;):

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Jeff,

 

Glad I could help man, and it sounds like you're thinking on the right lines!  And I know the feeling about the Bachelor's degree.  I have a Bachelor's in Aerospace Studies from Embry-Riddle.  What does that = in the job market... nada!  But it shows to employers I have both commitment and resolve when it comes to completing tasks.  That's why I suggested one of those helo flight degrees; you might as well do what you love and have it equate to something in the standardized education system.

 

And Andrew, it sounds like you might be an ERAU guy yourself... I always felt bad for the Engineer kids there... we were always having fun and they were up all night doing labs... poor guys!

 

Good luck to both of you!

 

Alex

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Jeff,

 

I'm coming in from an odd angle here, but here it goes anyhow.

I'm a Marine, just went over 24 yrs last June. Enlisted aviation ordnanceman (bombs, missiles, guns,....), with some side-time as a door-gunner/observer with Hueys. My first boot-leg "flight lesson" was in a Huey, my second was in a Cobra's front seat.

I've since gotten my Helo PPL and am currently in college (off-duty) for an A&P which tuition assistance is helping pay for.

 

I would have to agree with Alex, if you're just looking for the training and time/experience building in the Army,.......don't do it.

 

The military will give you all of that.....and more, you may not want the "more".

 

I've been in the shitholes, I've been in the fantastic places, I've been in places that defy description and it all worked out OK for me. I had a great deal of fun, sometimes more than I can remember but that's what the pictures are for.

 

Military life is definitely not for everyone. If you have the means to attend college, pay for your training on the civil side and still progress at a decent rate, you may want to think about doing it that way.

 

I was 40 yrs old when I get my PPL. The only thing that the civil pilots I know are jealous of in my case is I have a military retirement behind me when I finally retire,...."pensions" and benefits seem to be an issue on the civil side of helos.

 

Hopefully helps you on some level. Good Luck

 

Mark

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Hey Mark,

 

you know you could have some VA benefits coming your way if you decide to go for your commercial.  Not sure if you're looking in that direction, but just wanted to throw it towards you.

 

Alex

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Alex,

 

I've crawled through all of forms, brochures, propaganda, etc and the best deal seems to be the GI Bill paying 60% of the commercial training. Which is exactly why I'm using TA for the A&P Course now.....saving my GI Bill for the Commercial stuff when I actually jump ship.

 

There were some interesting "side-roads" in the VA Benefits that may lend themselves to be twisted to the training,...but most of them involved being partially disabled.

Spent 24+ yrs trying not to become disabled, kind've prefer to keep it that way.

 

Unrelated question: (which also may be of interest to Jeff) What happens to students who drop from flt training in the Army ? I was told they served their time remaining in the ground-side Army,....any truth to that ?

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Unrelated question: (which also may be of interest to Jeff) What happens to students who drop from flt training in the Army ? I was told they served their time remaining in the ground-side Army,....any truth to that ?

I heard that that is the case, and it makes sense. At that point you are already a trained officer or WO at the expense of the army, so it only seems fair that you qualify for a new MOS and do that for your time remaining.

 

 

 

Alex,

 

Nah, I ended up at NYU staying as far away from engineering as is humany possible without ending up in the extreme liberal arts side either. However, my older brother is an aero-space engineer and I've spent plenty a time listening to him and his friends speak of the disillusionment of their major namely do to grades and challenge of their major. Anyway, it it alright if I shoot you a PM with about a million questions regarding guard service and the army way of choosing helicopter pilots?

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First, I'll start with Mark:

 

It is true that they will send you to a ground unit and branch, but it is really hard to drop this program.  I know one guy here who tried to quit and quit and quit and they ended up talking him back into the program!  I have heard of another guy though who is trying to get out by failing everything, and he'll probably get his wish... but that's only hearsay.  Most of the people want to be here, and the Army needs pilots so it usually works itself out.  One of my friends had a real hard time at the beginning, and now he's starting to excel in the advanced courses, so obviously dropping him would have been a mistake!

 

Andrew:

 

Feel free to PM me whenever.  I'm active duty though, but a lot of my friends are NG and Reserve (both Warrant and LT) so I can definitely get an answer for you.

 

Other than that, Good luck guys and I'll talk to you all soon!

 

Alex

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  • 1 month later...

Hey everyone who has posted,

  I am almost done with my packet for WOFT on the National Guard side. It has not been to bad so far. I have my private license (rotorwing) and I am currentley working on instrument on the civilian side. Love it but dont get enough time to study due to job,family etc. Ive always wanted to be an Army Aviator so against all odds I am trying to accomplish ths mission. I just heard of a gentleman who went through IERW at the age of 38. If any of you currentley in the program have heard of people this age going through please let me know. I have talked to alot of people with rank who say they will waiver my age (36) but I still am not going to get my hopes up!

 

Thanks, Jeffrey:;):

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I think the waiver age was just recently increased for active duty, and I believe years of prior service "retrograde" your age, but I'm not sure.  At 36 though, you should be able to pull a waiver.  I had 2 guys in my IERW class that were about your age and they had no problem getting in.
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No prob.  A couple of them from my class are on this forum... I'll see if they could PM you sometime.
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