Helo Programs through Universities

[Tara]

Can someone please help me to understand the degree options? I already have a bachelor's and am looking into doing Upper Limit Aviation affliated through UVSC. What are the advantages of having a degree in aviation, as opposed to just completing flight training? Is it financially beneficial because you can get financial aid or are there career advantages in regard to salary and job placement etc.? Can you get the financial aid through UVSC if not matriculated towards a degree? Any information at all would help me so much!

[Guest rookie101]

Tara,

 

These are things that other pilots have told me: Having a degree in anything is going to be benificial. If you continue on through a helicopter career, you are going to look for more of a managing position and a degree is going to get you that, because most (if not all) people in the helicopter industry are going to get tired of flying. Having a degree is also good for a back up plan, who knows one day you can't pass your medical and suddenly you can't fly for a career anymore . I have also heard that there are some helo jobs, like flying corporate, that you need a degree in, but i am not for sure on that one, I just heard it from a CFI. Diversify, make sure you don't have all of your eggs in just one basket

[Tara]

How lame is it to reply to your own post? Ha Ha.

 

Thought of one more question, might as well try to keep it together. I am completely new to this and just trying to find my way.... I have gathered a lot of good starting points from reading these forums and thank you, it is invaluable.

 

Whilst I am working on some other avenues of my quest for information I have wondered what exactly I am supposed to be looking for in terms of scouting out a school. I am in Salt Lake and there seem to be a few. I have nothing against moving if beneficial (currently young, single and brat-free), but if the school(s) are just as good here I'd financially benefit from sticking around at my job. I don't even know what to look for (couldn't name 2 types of helicopters off the top of my head) or what questions I should be asking them and I feel completely stupid and out of my element. I am currently reading a book called "Learning to Fly Helicopters" and I am hoping this will boost my knowledge of lingo, important terms and the like. Any tips?

 

I am mostly afraid that if I start venturing out to poke around the local schools looking for my intro flight and asking questions, that I will get sucked into something subpar because of my lack of knowledge and experience. Please help me. Tara

 

Tara,

 

These are things that other pilots have told me: Having a degree in anything is going to be benificial. If you continue on through a helicopter career, you are going to look for more of a managing position and a degree is going to get you that, because most (if not all) people in the helicopter industry are going to get tired of flying. Having a degree is also good for a back up plan, who knows one day you can't pass your medical and suddenly you can't fly for a career anymore . I have also heard that there are some helo jobs, like flying corporate, that you need a degree in, but i am not for sure on that one, I just heard it from a CFI. Diversify, make sure you don't have all of your eggs in just one basket

 

Thank you rookie101. I appreciate your input!

[fry]

I already have a bachelor's and am looking into doing Upper Limit Aviation affliated through UVSC.

 

Rich parents? Are you a professional student...always in school, never taking the next step out into the world? Why a helo career? I mean, why do you want to spend over $100k to get the minimum requirement...the CFI ticket...for you to begin an 800 hour apprenticeship? The training part...the first 200 hours...is easy; you just buy it. But, how are you going to get the next 800 flight hours? And then, assuming that you do get them...a huge assumption...why would you want to live in the GOM? What's your bachelor's degree in...gym?

[Gerhardt]

Tara, I apologize for Fry's behavior. Not every helicopter pilot you meet will be an a**hole, but you will meet your fair share.

 

My advise: Spend $500 for your first two flight lessons before doing anything else. It's something you'll have to do anyway, so it's not money down the drain, and it will give you a taste of flying helicopters.

 

Best of luck to you and I hope you report back on how you proceed and what decisions you make.

[fry]

Tara, I apologize for Fry's behavior.

 

Oh pulleeze, what are you selling? Flight instruction probably. If poor little Tara has got a Bachelor's degree but still is "...mostly afraid that if I start venturing out to poke around the local schools looking for my intro flight and asking questions that I will get sucked into something subpar because of my lack of knowledge and experience", then what do you think are the chances that she (I'm assuming) will ever actually get to the point of chauffering roughnecks in the GOM? And if she doesn't get to that point she will have wasted somebody's $100k.

 

And if you were other than a salesman looking to pocket her student loan proceeds you'd tell her that. So stuff your apology.

[Guest rookie101]

Tara, I apologize for Fry's behavior. Not every helicopter pilot you meet will be an a**hole, but you will meet your fair share.

 

Well, I don't know about that Gerhardt. Fry is just trying to make sure that she dosen't make a huge financial mistake by spending 100k (or however much she plans on spending) on something she may realize she dosen't want to do. Now, this is a forum and it can, at times, be hard for someone to really now how a person is trying to say something to someone, i.e. in an anrgy manner I'll give you that Gerhardt, but calling Fry an "a**hole" for trying to better understand Tara's situation so we all can help her out more, threw me way off. With that said, let's not turn this into a thread where we bash each other like some of the SSH students did to coley in her thread "trying to make a smart decision", let's make sure we help.

 

Some more advice, if you already have a couple of schools picked out, show up and take a demo-flight there, see if it's well run or not, and ask to talk to some of the students there, they will fill you in on some of your questions that deal with the school itself. I've also heard of guys that would just show up randomly to see if they were just putting a show on for them when they took their demo flight. You might also want to check the review section VR has and stick around here to see if you can find someone who attends a school you want to go to. I have already found a couple of guys who have gone or are going to a flight school I will start attending this summer and they have been a great help, and the flight school is small.

 

Hope this helps and good luck

[Tara]

Damn Fry, you're tough! Down boy!

 

As I said, I am completely new to this and I'm only asking questions. No, my parents aren't rich and it's taken me 10 years to get my bachelor's degree working full-time to pay for it. Not to mention not having a very clear focus and bouncing around wasting time and money jumping into things that I didn't have my heart in 100%. I know what a costly mistake this is and I don't want to do it again. If you must know I've found myself at a point where yes, I am trying to take the next step out into the world. And my degree might as well be in gym I suppose, which is another facet of Health Promotion but mine's actually in EMS Management. But go figure, working my way into the field at $7/hr never quite could pay my bills and just is not an option. On the otherhand it kind of sucks having a degree and still working for peanuts over 20K. But enough about poor me. I don't feel threatened trying to pursue my childhood dream, something a lot of people die wishing they had done. And as I said, putting 100% heart into something makes a big difference to me.

 

I am very curious to know from you Fry, if ... "I mean, why do you want to spend over $100k to get the minimum requirement...the CFI ticket...for you to begin an 800 hour apprenticeship? The training part...the first 200 hours...is easy; you just buy it. But, how are you going to get the next 800 flight hours? And then, assuming that you do get them...a huge assumption...why would you want to live in the GOM?"... then why are YOU a helo pilot??

 

Sounds like a complete waste of time for such crappy job! And with these hours being so difficult to obtain, you really must be far more skilled and talented than I to have done this. Kudos! Man, I think I'll just give the idea up now because it is just too hard. Forgive me for trying to seek out some constructive advise!

 

Why are you in the Helicopter Flight Training forum anyway? Shouldn't you be rough-housing with the big boys by now?

 

Thanks to all provided me with some answers that I can do something with. I'll keep you posted! T

[ascott20]

Tara,

 

If you already have a degree (esp. a bachelor's) do not worry about pursuing an aviation degree. A bachelor's is a bachelor's. Aviation degrees are really only for certification of people's training that they would otherwise not get a degree for (ie pilots, mechanics, etc) Your best bet is to just focus on the flight training. Your resume is already well garnished and you really only need to focus on flying. Plus, most of the more established schools can finance you through Sallie Mae or Pilot Finance for your flight training. The only lender that is sticky is Key Bank; who prefers to only deal with collegiate programs. I'm not sure what upper limit has for programs, but I'm sure they have something of this sort.

 

Also, if you have any doubts about this in your mind, take a demo ride and talk to other students at the school; especially ones around your age. Also, have your parents come with you if possible. They will be very skeptical; and that is a good thing. I did my flight training in my last years of college... and it was a bit tricky, but I loved it, and would do it over again. Although I really don't miss eating Ramen too much.

 

By the way, EMS management is not a bad degree, especially in the aviation field. I don't know how much news you've kept up on, but there are some critically weak areas in civilian EMS operations, which has prompted the FAA and employers to review policy and procedures for EMS. If you decide to fly helos and stick with it; down the road you may find yourself looking for a job in a helo EMS outfit as a pilot and/or coordinator. Of course there will be a few thousand hours and several years before this occurs.

 

But anyways, good luck and hopefully we'll be seeing you on our side of the airfield.

 

Alex

[Tara]

Tara,

 

If you already have a degree (esp. a bachelor's) do not worry about pursuing an aviation degree. A bachelor's is a bachelor's. Aviation degrees are really only for certification of people's training that they would otherwise not get a degree for (ie pilots, mechanics, etc) Your best bet is to just focus on the flight training. Your resume is already well garnished and you really only need to focus on flying. Plus, most of the more established schools can finance you through Sallie Mae or Pilot Finance for your flight training. The only lender that is sticky is Key Bank; who prefers to only deal with collegiate programs. I'm not sure what upper limit has for programs, but I'm sure they have something of this sort.

 

Also, if you have any doubts about this in your mind, take a demo ride and talk to other students at the school; especially ones around your age. Also, have your parents come with you if possible. They will be very skeptical; and that is a good thing. I did my flight training in my last years of college... and it was a bit tricky, but I loved it, and would do it over again. Although I really don't miss eating Ramen too much.

 

By the way, EMS management is not a bad degree, especially in the aviation field. I don't know how much news you've kept up on, but there are some critically weak areas in civilian EMS operations, which has prompted the FAA and employers to review policy and procedures for EMS. If you decide to fly helos and stick with it; down the road you may find yourself looking for a job in a helo EMS outfit as a pilot and/or coordinator. Of course there will be a few thousand hours and several years before this occurs.

 

But anyways, good luck and hopefully we'll be seeing you on our side of the airfield.

 

Alex

 

Hey Alex,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. That answers my question exactly. I do plan to take the demo flight and am very excited to do so. I'm assuming that you could see where I'm coming from in regards to not wanting to get sucked into something even when trying to set up a demo flight. The info I've absorbed about training schools has really put me on the defense. It's one thing to walk into a car dealership and get totally screwed into a 15K lemon that can be paid off in 4 years, but this is my life I'm dealing with here and I do not want to waste anymore time or money.

 

As far as the degree, I totally agree with you about the current EMS issues and that is very much a part of my long-term goal and motive here. I would like to use my degree in the most constructive way possible while at the same time doing what I love. Being new to this, one of the things that I read loud and clear is that this would truly be thousands of hours and several years down the road. Having a plan now I don't think is too unwise. I would certainly not mind the wait having fun while learning to be a better pilot. And when I say fun, I most certainly am not undermining the extremely difficult and challenging road that lies ahead of me but I say bring it on. Thanks again for the advice. If you come up with anything else, please feel free to send over a message. Tara

[mechanic]

Tara,

 

If you are looking to further yourself up the ladder in EMS, UVSC offer's a 2 year degree in Aviation Management and the BS degree combines a mixture of all the specific degree's into one. I would CALL Dr. Smart at UVSC and just talk to him about options on a second BS degree. Having a double BS one in EMS and the other in Aviation Management would set you up to climb the ladder. UVSC only req's 20 hrs residence for a degree. Like I said it wouldn't hurt or cost much to at least explore options with Dr. Smart. You may have to register and send them a transcript to get a more precise response. I sent all 3 of my transcripts to them and they accepted all but 2 or 3 credits for a total of 60 crd hrs, problem is I need all my academics and only 3 crd hrs count towards an Aviation Degree of some sort.

 

 

 

Regards

 

[Tara]

Tara,

 

If you are looking to further yourself up the ladder in EMS, UVSC offer's a 2 year degree in Aviation Management and the BS degree combines a mixture of all the specific degree's into one. I would CALL Dr. Smart at UVSC and just talk to him about options on a second BS degree. Having a double BS one in EMS and the other in Aviation Management would set you up to climb the ladder. UVSC only req's 20 hrs residence for a degree. Like I said it wouldn't hurt or cost much to at least explore options with Dr. Smart. You may have to register and send them a transcript to get a more precise response. I sent all 3 of my transcripts to them and they accepted all but 2 or 3 credits for a total of 60 crd hrs, problem is I need all my academics and only 3 crd hrs count towards an Aviation Degree of some sort.

Regards

 

I love getting different point of views. Thanks. This is not the first time I've heard of Dr. Smart so I'll most definitely give him a call. I actually had all of my fafsa stuff sent over there today. I was anticipating on calling for an in-person meeting when that's available to discuss as well. When you say 20 hrs residence - does that just mean living in state or actually taking 20 credits on campus? I'm in SLC so either way probably wouldn't be an obstacle. T

[Witch]

I have two associates degrees and a planetfull on knowledge in between my ears, and a $12 an hour mechanic job assembling motorhomes. Not as fun as flying-although flight plans suck-but it puts a roof over my head. Now the helo flying has sparked the flame for a career change(thanks SSH) and this is what I wish to pursue.

 

I went to the Portland schools and all were good. I then went to a smaller school in the middle of the valley, and decided to learn there. Sub-par? Don't know. Maybe...maybe not. I guess it all boils down to whether you think you're getting the schooling for which you're paying. I think in your case any school would be acceptable, as long as you're willing to learn and take instruction well. Flip a coin and pick one, see what happens. Does this sound cavalier? You bet. If the school is bad for flight training, don't you think it would be out of business? Take a chance and enjoy it. That's what I'd do.

 

Later

[ascott20]

Hey Alex,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. That answers my question exactly. I do plan to take the demo flight and am very excited to do so. I'm assuming that you could see where I'm coming from in regards to not wanting to get sucked into something even when trying to set up a demo flight. The info I've absorbed about training schools has really put me on the defense. It's one thing to walk into a car dealership and get totally screwed into a 15K lemon that can be paid off in 4 years, but this is my life I'm dealing with here and I do not want to waste anymore time or money.

 

As far as the degree, I totally agree with you about the current EMS issues and that is very much a part of my long-term goal and motive here. I would like to use my degree in the most constructive way possible while at the same time doing what I love. Being new to this, one of the things that I read loud and clear is that this would truly be thousands of hours and several years down the road. Having a plan now I don't think is too unwise. I would certainly not mind the wait having fun while learning to be a better pilot. And when I say fun, I most certainly am not undermining the extremely difficult and challenging road that lies ahead of me but I say bring it on. Thanks again for the advice. If you come up with anything else, please feel free to send over a message. Tara

 

 

Tara,

 

No problem, and I yes I have been there before and I know what you're going through. I would still recommend a second set of eyes when you go to the school. At the least, it'll give you some additional perspective on the quality of the school.

 

Ironically, I decided a while ago to pursue my Master's Degree in Emergency and Crisis/Disaster Management; kind of going along the same lines. So don't be too surprised if I have a question or two for you too.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. If financing your training is an issue, talk to the school about doing some "hangar maintenance." I was a shop/office/janitorial rat at my flight school when I was learning. You'll probably get a meager paycheck, but you'll learn a lot more about the aircraft and training operation than the average student. Plus, sometimes you may get a free few minutes in the helo here and there. Every bit helps. It got me from only being able to afford a private license to getting through a commercial certificate! Good Luck, and feel free to ask me if you have any questions either on this post or via PM.

 

Alex

[mechanic]

"When you say 20 hrs residence - does that just mean living in state or actually taking 20 credits on campus? "

 

UVSC did have listed on their site that you needed to complete 20 crd hrs with them to be eligible for a degree. I have not gone back and looked. You should ask Dr. Smart when you speak to him to be clear about everything.

 

 

Regards

[mrpresident]

Hey Tara,

 

I'm a prospective heli pilot and will be graduating with my B.F.A tomorrow in Digitl Media. But it's a degree I only have fun in, not something I know I will enjoy as a career. I've always wanted to fly, but didn't know where the carrer path would lead me. I worked as a deckhand on the potomac river in D.C. and I would watch tons of helo's fly around all day, and everytime one would pass, I would fill with jealousy. I've flows a small plane before, and I love flying and the only game I play is flight sim. I'm going to work as much as I can and pay for training with some loans and private money. But I already have the college loans to pay for $300 a month. But it's going to be worth it to have a fun job that you can look back on and not feel like you wasted your life with some dumb monkey job. I'd rather have my office be the cokcpit of a multi-million dollar piece of well crafted machinery with a great view, than a cubicle with no view. "Never be afraid to sacrafice what you are for what you could be"

[Brownie]

Tara

 

I am in a similar position as you are and I will agree that it is hard to get great advice. I've talked to several schools all around the country and the best "straight shooter" I talked to yesterday. Check out www.flymidwest.com. The chief instructor there was Charlie. He is really personable and didn't throw me a "pitch" after even 30 minutes. I'll tell you what he told me.

 

send me a PRIVATE email and I will tell you how the UVSC works if you already have a degree.