Jump to content


VOLO_VRGeneral468Helicopter AcademyUpperLimit2011General_468x60TigerTugsVRForumGen468
Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Help Susie find her helicopter


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 21 August 2009 - 16:45

Susie and I are newly rated helicopter pilots. We love flying and want to improve our skills flying helicopters.

We are considering buying a well used R22 and flying it until overhaul. This presents the least financial risk. There is a red R22B2, 2006, with 1800 hours available. Asking price is 95K. I feel that the flying hours remaining on a R22 are worth approximately $90 to $100 per hour to me. So this would make the helicopter worth $45k for core + $40k for hours = $85k. We would not have to worry much about resale value as it would be just the runout value.

Alternatively we could buy a much more expensive R44 Raven II. This would be suitable for larger adventures and trips. Several 2005 Raven II with less than 500 hours TT are avialable for $300k. We might be able to fly off 300 hours in three years. Then we would hope to resell the helicopter for $250k. There are so many R44's for sale now that the market for used ones might be even more saturated in 3 years.

Susies rotor addicted brain then comes up with the idea that we could buy a little R22 and then buy an R44. Who needs a retirement plan; We can invest in aluminum in the form of helicopters.

Do you know of any nice R22 or R44 helicopters in good condition at a good price?
Please help Susie find her helicopter.
  • TeoerryNug likes this

#2 67november

67november

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,464 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:land of 10,000 lakes (taxes)

Posted 21 August 2009 - 16:52

How about you up grade to an enstrom instead?
spinning wings are better than fixed.

#3 adam32

adam32

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Company working for:Just keeping the bills paid!!

Posted 21 August 2009 - 17:13

How about you up grade to an enstrom instead?


+1

You could even UPGRADE to a Brantly... :P

Make your rifle, your targets worst nightmare!

 

www.diablocustomrifles.com


#4 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 21 August 2009 - 17:18

Susie and I are too new to helicopters to get someting unusual. Enstrom helicopters are very attractive and have a reputation for good flying qualities. Maybe as a second helicopter when we get more experience.

#5 dave7373

dave7373

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 21 August 2009 - 17:47

Have you considered a Raven I, much cheaper than a RavenII and from most standpoints, just as good.

#6 RockyMountainPilot

RockyMountainPilot

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Interests:Veganism, animal rights, environmental protection, my friends, motorcycles, photography, Kung Fu, Tai Chi, yoga, skiing, boarding, web design.

Posted 21 August 2009 - 18:35

Rick,

Before I offer you any advice, I need to know a few things.

Where are you located and what kind of flying will you mainly be doing?
Are you ever looking to use the helicopters to make money?
Have you looked into service centers in your area and make sure you are comfortable with them?
Are you opposed to a partnership?

#7 67november

67november

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,464 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:land of 10,000 lakes (taxes)

Posted 21 August 2009 - 20:59

Rick,

Before I offer you any advice, I need to know a few things.

Where are you located and what kind of flying will you mainly be doing?
Are you ever looking to use the helicopters to make money?
Have you looked into service centers in your area and make sure you are comfortable with them?
Are you opposed to a partnership?


And your advise can provide some invalueable insight as to what they need?

if you'd bothered to keep up with their progress you'd know what and where.

stick to JH.
spinning wings are better than fixed.

#8 Goldy

Goldy

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,852 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Crescenta-VNY, CA
  • Interests:uuuh? flying helicopers maybe?
  • Company working for:Hey I didn't know you could loop an R22 ???

Posted 22 August 2009 - 01:07

Rick- The R22 sounds like a nice deal for a B2. If its local, there are only two local mechanics that I would have take a look at it. Give me a call tomorrow and I'll give you my two names...both great guys, both know the R22 quite well.

However, if you really want to enjoy your flights, I so much prefer the R44. I know you dont have a lot of time in them, but buy the ship, bring along a CFI and each get 40 or 50 hours PIC time in it and off you go.

If you get the R22B2, its pretty easy to make some extra $$ leasing it back to one of several schools locally (SPZ,OXR,CMR). BTW 1800 hours remaining, if its really worth $100 bucks an hour to you is $180,000. 40-45K for the core is a good estimate if its in nice shape, and in the first round of overhauls (coming up on 2200 hours, not 4400).

So, my math would be buy it for $95K.....sell it as a core for 40K. That leaves 55K as your investment, divided into 1800 hours is only 30.55 an hour for the ship. Which is a steal!

You sure its 1800 available and not 1800 TT, with 400 left on it? Damn, if you don't buy this ship, I might!

Anyway, I would fly the 44 a bit more, and I think your strategy there isnt bad either. Right now, a lot of em for sale, and if the 66 comes out I think a lot of 66 sales will be upgrades, dumping even more 44's on the market. Thats why I havent bought a 44, as bad as I want to, I just forsee the 44 market remaining weak for a few years.

I wont be up there tomorrow, T-storms in the area and its a busy day for me. Lets plan to hook up the following weekend.

Fly safe, good luck,

Goldy

Fly Safe !!

Goldy-CPL(H),R22A, HP, B, BII, R44 Astro, R1,RII,R44ClipperII, R66, B47G2, S300C, S333, B206B3, DG500, RV10, E480B, AS350BA, S-58T, what next?

FAA Aircraft Dealer
http://www.bestaerialphoto.com
http://www.phpa.org
http://www.rotorcraftpro.com
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvN3GDEXPos
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9SO5uCno


#9 adam32

adam32

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Company working for:Just keeping the bills paid!!

Posted 22 August 2009 - 10:03

Goldy, I'm pretty sure he meant 1800tt. Thinking the "available" meant that the ship was available...

Make your rifle, your targets worst nightmare!

 

www.diablocustomrifles.com


#10 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 22 August 2009 - 12:24

The red R22B2 has 1800 hours TT, only 400 hours remaining. It presents very well for a ship that has seen so much service in just a few years. I think that R22's will always be in demand as they are the best value for training.

The R44 Raven 1 is a good value and more simple to maintain. These have not depreciated as much as Raven 2.

Susie is checked out in the R44 and is flying it well. It is such a nice flying helicopter.

#11 adam32

adam32

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Company working for:Just keeping the bills paid!!

Posted 22 August 2009 - 13:27

The red R22B2 has 1800 hours TT, only 400 hours remaining. It presents very well for a ship that has seen so much service in just a few years. I think that R22's will always be in demand as they are the best value for training.

The R44 Raven 1 is a good value and more simple to maintain. These have not depreciated as much as Raven 2.

Susie is checked out in the R44 and is flying it well. It is such a nice flying helicopter.


If your set on a Robbie...check out a run out Astro...pretty cheap then send it in for overhaul and get pretty much a brand new helicopter after...

Make your rifle, your targets worst nightmare!

 

www.diablocustomrifles.com


#12 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 01 September 2009 - 18:01

Susie and I made an offer on the little red R22B2. We will find out if it is good enough tomorrow. There is another one with a few less hours and a better GPS. Shopping is not nearly as much fun as flying.

Susie and I are now both checked out in the R44 Raven 1. We hope to spoil ourselves with one in a year or so.

#13 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 02 September 2009 - 21:02

The first little red R22 did not work out. We made an offer on another red R22B2 that has 1600 hours, 600 remaining, 2004. The offer was accepted. We will fly up and check out the helicopter Saturday and arrange for a pre-buy inspection. I hope Susie likes it.

Susie is nervous about the purchase. She has never flown a R22B2 only a R22B. I have a couple of hours in the R22B2. She does not know that the differences are very small and all improvements. She is concerned that I might just fly it home the same day. She knows me well. My mind is already conniving to have an inspection done on Friday.

#14 adam32

adam32

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Company working for:Just keeping the bills paid!!

Posted 02 September 2009 - 21:41

Congrats! Looking, inspecting and making offers is the fun part! Its about a week later that that weird feeling sets it... :o

Make your rifle, your targets worst nightmare!

 

www.diablocustomrifles.com


#15 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 08 September 2009 - 13:35

Susie has found her helicopter. It is a little red R22B2. There are 600 hours remaining, and 7 years remaining. We plan to fly it often to improve our helicopter skills. It will be based at Stanta Paula (SZP). The current owner will deliver it from Watsonville sometime this week. When it arrives there will be a party. VR members are invited. I will post details when I know th arrival day.Attached File  81411175.jpg   147.04KB   46 downloads

#16 Mikemv

Mikemv

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 855 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Naples, Florida
  • Interests:Helicopter Aviation for the last 49 yrs
  • Company working for:HelicopterSBT

Posted 08 September 2009 - 13:45

Congrats and best of luck with new helo.

#17 IFLY

IFLY

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona
  • Company working for:Arizona Aero-Tech

Posted 08 September 2009 - 16:50

It's definitely the right color! :D

Jerry
Jerry
Posted Image

#18 Goldy

Goldy

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,852 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Crescenta-VNY, CA
  • Interests:uuuh? flying helicopers maybe?
  • Company working for:Hey I didn't know you could loop an R22 ???

Posted 08 September 2009 - 20:17

Rick- looks like a beautiful ship ! Let us know when the BBQ is, and mark off some spots to land a bunch of helo's !!

Goldy

Fly Safe !!

Goldy-CPL(H),R22A, HP, B, BII, R44 Astro, R1,RII,R44ClipperII, R66, B47G2, S300C, S333, B206B3, DG500, RV10, E480B, AS350BA, S-58T, what next?

FAA Aircraft Dealer
http://www.bestaerialphoto.com
http://www.phpa.org
http://www.rotorcraftpro.com
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvN3GDEXPos
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9SO5uCno


#19 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 09 September 2009 - 11:45

Susies little red R22 is on it way this morning, a bit earlier than expected. We will have a welcome party this evening 6:00 until late. Food, wine and other good stuff will be served.

Suzies hangar is at the far west end of Santa Paula airport. The hangar has a large window looking across the approach end of runway 4. Santa Paula is unlighted so it is probably not a good plan to fly in for this party.

If you drive in, take the 126 freeway to Santa Paula, exit to the south on Palm, make an immediate left turn onto Santa Maria street, two very small blocks to 320 Santa Maria street. Our hangar complex has a sign "Airport Business Park". Enter the code 1930, the gate should open, park near the gate and walk around the end of the hangar. When in doubt call susie 805-218-4048

If you miss this party we love visitors on the weekend. Fly in and have a soda or tea with us.

#20 Rick McWilliams

Rick McWilliams

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted 18 September 2009 - 12:43

Susie and I have been away from the office for a few days. We attended the Robinson Safety Course. It is excellent for new pilots, and instructors who train new pilots. The risks of helicopter flying were clearly presented. The instructor Tim Tucker made sure that we learned that we are the safety problem. The emphasis was on training to avoid the most common causes of accidents. One day was devoted to maintenace and helicopter systems. The Robinson helicopter is a very clever design where minimum weight is always in mind. The factory tour was impressive; The facility is clean and well lighted by natural light. Most parts are completely built in house from raw stock. The work stations are very well organized. The employees apprear proud of their work, and very careful.

One of our friends made a very nice video of our trip to purchase our first helicopter:



I hope the link works for you. You may have to cut and paste into your browser.

Edited by Rick McWilliams, 18 September 2009 - 17:00.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users



HeliHelmetsAble_VRGeneral200NFCVRGeneral200MaunaLoaSoftwareVRGeneral200PrecisionVRForumGeneral200ColoradoHeliOpsGeneral200MidwestHeliAcademy2016Helmet FX General 200DevoreGeneral200Genesys VRForum200_General