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#1 PilotFirefighter

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 09:58

Hey guys. I can't seem to find anything in the FAR/AIM on this question, maybe someone here can answer. On doing a private pilot helicopter add-on, where can you find the flight requirements at as far as a syllabus? Because I was informed that I don't have to do any cross country time. Also, for those of you that have done add-ons from being FW, what is the oral like? Do most DPE's hound you on it to make sure you still know your stuff?

One last question not related to this but since the SFAR 73 expired June 30, did they come out with another one yet?

Thank you for your help,

Colby

#2 rick1128

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 10:07

Hey guys. I can't seem to find anything in the FAR/AIM on this question, maybe someone here can answer. On doing a private pilot helicopter add-on, where can you find the flight requirements at as far as a syllabus? Because I was informed that I don't have to do any cross country time. Also, for those of you that have done add-ons from being FW, what is the oral like? Do most DPE's hound you on it to make sure you still know your stuff?

One last question not related to this but since the SFAR 73 expired June 30, did they come out with another one yet?

Thank you for your help,

Colby


Colby,

SFAR 73 is back and permanent.

Asa for the requirements for an add-on, you kind of have to read between the lines. Some of your fixed wing time counts toward the rating. But when you read the requirements it will say amounts that must be in a helicopter. These are the requirements.

As for the oral, when I did a Commercial add-on, it was mostly aerodynamics and regulations, but because the FSDO was big on MEL's and 135, I had a couple questions on those items also. Most DPE's do not hound an applicant, they just want to know if they have an acceptable understanding of the aircraft and the environment the applicant is flying in.

#3 helonorth

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 10:19

I guess I don't know what you mean by syllabus. Get a PTS if you don't have one and look at the little chart in the front. If it has an "x" after the subject, it's fair game for the oral. Talk to other pilots that have done rides with the examiner. Many do the same ride every time.

The flight stuff is in part 61. If it says "aircraft", you've probably done it. If it says "helicopter", well, you know what to do.

#4 Gary DeWitt

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:28

I did my private helicopter add-on earlier this year.

For private the aeronautical experience requirements are for time in helicopters and your fixed-wing time won't be usable. For commercial (I'm working on that now) you can use lots of time in other categories/classes, but not so for private.

As previously stated, the PTS has a chart which clearly indicates the area required in the practical test for add-ons. However, it also says that the examiner can test you on anything in the PTS, including the optional stuff. So you should be prepared for everything.

On my checkride he skipped all the optional stuff. But every examiner is different. I have heard, as someone mentioned, of examiners who give the same checkride to everyone, regardless.

#5 helonorth

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 17:06

I did my private helicopter add-on earlier this year.

For private the aeronautical experience requirements are for time in helicopters and your fixed-wing time won't be usable. For commercial (I'm working on that now) you can use lots of time in other categories/classes, but not so for private.

As previously stated, the PTS has a chart which clearly indicates the area required in the practical test for add-ons. However, it also says that the examiner can test you on anything in the PTS, including the optional stuff. So you should be prepared for everything.

On my checkride he skipped all the optional stuff. But every examiner is different. I have heard, as someone mentioned, of examiners who give the same checkride to everyone, regardless.

Most untrue. There is a lot of airplane time you can credit towards a private helicopter rating. Back to the books.

Edited by helonorth, 01 September 2009 - 17:19.


#6 Rick McWilliams

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 17:54

I recently did a helicopter add on rating. I think that the dual and solo cross country flights must be in helicopters. The dual night flights must be in helicopters. The Robinson SFAR73 increases some hours requirements.

The cross country flights are fun. Helicopter navigaton is very different than airplane navigation. You are usually at very low altitude, and will use different kinds of landmarks. It is a real challenge to fold a map while flying a helicopter. Unless you are left handed you can forget about writing down a clearance.

I needed 58 hours of helicopter before I was ready for the check ride.

#7 nikon858

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 19:54

you need 40 TT, 30 helicopter, 20 dual helicopter in type for PIC(solo) SFAR....and whatever the x-country requirements are and 3 for night.....so your FW hours count for 10 hours of the total required....all minimum of course, everyone is different.

Main difference is your not a student pilot, so less endorsements.

Edited by nikon858, 01 September 2009 - 19:55.


#8 helonorth

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 20:13

you need 40 TT, 30 helicopter, 20 dual helicopter in type for PIC(solo) SFAR....and whatever the x-country requirements are and 3 for night.....so your FW hours count for 10 hours of the total required....all minimum of course, everyone is different.

Main difference is your not a student pilot, so less endorsements.

.

Not even close. Read 61.109

Edited by helonorth, 01 September 2009 - 20:19.


#9 IFLY

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 12:31

helonorth you need to show me what you mean by "Not even close".
You need 40 hours flight time, this can be any aircraft.
You need 20 hours dual helicopter (authorized instructor in areas of operation).
You need 10 hours solo helicopter.
Minimums are 30 hours helicopter with 10 in an aircraft of your choosing.

Jerry

c) For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(B )(3) of this part, and the training must include at least—

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a helicopter;

(2) Except as provided in §61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a helicopter that includes—

(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training in preparation for the practical test in a helicopter, which must have been performed within 60 days preceding the date of the test; and

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a helicopter, consisting of at least—

(i) 3 hours cross-country time;

(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight being a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Edited by IFLYEVERYTHING, 02 September 2009 - 13:24.

Jerry
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#10 helopilot2be

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 13:13

helonorth you need to show me what you mean by "Not even close".
You need 40 hours flight time, this can be any aircraft.
You need 20 hours dual helicopter (authorized instructor in areas of operation).
You need 10 hours solo helicopter.
Minimums are 30 hours helicopter with 10 in an aircraft of your choosing.

Jerry

c) For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(B)(3) of this part, and the training must include at least—

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a helicopter;

(2) Except as provided in §61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a helicopter that includes—

(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training in preparation for the practical test in a helicopter, which must have been performed within 60 days preceding the date of the test; and

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a helicopter, consisting of at least—

(i) 3 hours cross-country time;

(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight being a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.


I get 19 hrs. 3 cross country dual. 3 night dual 3 test prep dual, 10 solo.
If he's taking the picture...Who's flying the helicopter?

#11 IFLY

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 13:23

The 20 hours dual have to be in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b(3), specific to helicopters.

Jerry

PS if you do 3 cross country dual hours at night it would take care of test prep, night, and cross country in one flight.

§ 61.107 Flight proficiency.
top
(a) General. A person who applies for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground and flight training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

(B ) Areas of operation.
(3) For a rotorcraft category rating with a helicopter class rating:

(i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport and heliport operations;

(iv) Hovering maneuvers;

(v) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(vi) Performance maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Emergency operations;

(ix) Night operations, except as provided in §61.110 of this part; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

Edited by IFLYEVERYTHING, 02 September 2009 - 13:28.

Jerry
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#12 Rick McWilliams

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 13:51

It might be possible to complete a private helicopter add on rating in 40 hours. You will most likely not find your flight skill level satisfactory. Flying skills diminish quickly early in training.

I now have about 70 hours in helicopters. I am continuing to fly for fun and working on a commercial rating. I seem to maintain my skill level flying once a month. Flying as a passenger also helps keep up the skills. I need to buy a helicopter.

#13 nikon858

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 14:24

Not even close. Read 61.109



I think you should re-read it....I have a student getting his rotor add-on as we speak...what I posted were the basics.

#14 rotorwish

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 20:22

Search for Barry Lloyd responses- this forum or JH he explains the added ratings very well.

IFLYEVERYTHING has got it right. You can't double up as much as you think (Night, XC, Simulated instrument). Depends on the examiner. Mine showed me the FAA letter he had explaining that the Simulated instrument can't be doubled up with the night.

#15 Pohi

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 13:22

That is true for now, but the new rule goes into effect Oct 20.

42504 Federal Register / Vol. 74, No. 161 / Friday, August 21, 2009 / Rules and Regulations


Revision No. .......... CFR designation...........................................Summary of the revisions
61 ……………….........…§ 61.129©(3)(ii) ........................ Permits the daytime cross country flight for commercial pilot certification helicopter rating to be performed under VFR or IFR.

62 ........................ § 61.129©(3)(iii) ....................... Permits the cross country flight at nighttime for commercial pilot certification helicopter rating to be performed under VFR or IFR.

#16 rotorwish

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 08:46

true due to the changes to commercial requirements. Private remains the same. 3 hours of flight training by reference to instruments

#17 Pohi

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 15:24

true due to the changes to commercial requirements. Private remains the same. 3 hours of flight training by reference to instruments


Unless they changed it, the three hours for private is for single engine airplane, multi engine airplanie, power lift, airship, etc etc. Not for helicopters.




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