government run Health insurance

[Waldorf]

What are the toughts about government run health insurance and what it will do to the Air Helicopter bases. Do you think some of the bases will have to shut down due to caps on the amount paid for that service. I have talked to several EMS pilots and they are concerned.

[Gomer Pylot]

It will be the best thing that ever happened. Currently, most programs collect only on about 20% of flights. Even if the payments are smaller, getting paid for most flights would be a huge increase in income, and in fact would allow lowering charges. Currently, programs charge hugely inflated rates just to cover all the non-reimbursed flights. If everyone were covered, it would be far better for everyone involved.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

I am not really all that concerned. Right now I don't thing the Gov. intends to take over all health care. Simply to supplement what is out there in an effort to get those with out insurance covered and reduce cost.

 

I agree with Gomer in that revenue may actualy go up not down. There will be less with out insurance so more oportunity to get paid. As he said this may bring the cost down in a way.

 

Right now I am more interested in what changes the NTSB and FAA may mandate for EMS helicopters. I think it's only a matter of time before more equipment and changes are required by the FAA.

 

JD

[HelliBoy]

It will be the best thing that ever happened....

 

When was the last time the government took over something from the private sector and everyone exclaimed afterword, "that was the best thing that ever happened!"?

 

The fact is that there will be no government or public option and the result of current efforts will be mandated coverage for everyone. Mandated coverage, regarldess of risk to the underwriters will mean that huge risk groups that cant afford to pay what they would in a system uncorrupted by gov't mandates will recieve policy payouts on the backs of everyone in the system. In an effort to reduce expenses, and premiums, cuts will be made and I believe HEMS payouts will be one of them. Theres nothing that says an insurance company HAS to have HEMS payments covered. The 20% payment rate will do down to 5% and it wont be worth it to be in business.

 

Mandates are what got us into this problem with healthcare in the first place, not the insurance companies themselves. Chances are your premium helps pay for sex changes and bariatric surgery. There are 1700 insurnace companies in the united states and in new york, where I live, I can buy a policy from 6 of them. This is because the government of new york state mandates that uninsurable risks be covered in groups of people and for 1694 insurance companies, those risks aren't worth it.

 

There is nothing in the constitution about healthcare, and forcing a private industry to provide a service that will result in a loss is reprehensible. Real healthcare reform could be accomplished by tort reform and streamlining the mishmash of state mandates.

[Gomer Pylot]

Praise the lord and pass the teabags...

[klas]

What are the toughts about government run health insurance and what it will do to the Air Helicopter bases. Do you think some of the bases will have to shut down due to caps on the amount paid for that service. I have talked to several EMS pilots and they are concerned.

 

If a government run health care plan is adopted, there is going to be a finite amount of money available. When limits are reached, cuts are made. Helo programs are a 'luxury' for many communities & I bet they will be the 1st to go when the cuts & rationing are made by any government dept. And for those that don't think rationing results, it happens in ALL government run programs in ALL nations that have it.

 

Additionally, when does the government ever pay on time? Look at medicare, look at the VA, look at the Indian reservations, etc... payments take a long time to arrive at the provider. Many docs don't participate or are leaving the programs because of the delayed payments, the mounds of paperwork & the confusing rules that are created with such a program.

 

And Gomer, just because people don't like a government run program or think that it isn't the 'best thing that could happen' doesn't mean that they are religious or into tea-bagging. Instead of resorting to slogans in order to dismiss concerns, what is needed is a look at the facts.

 

Waldorf, if really interested maybe you should look at what has happened in MA. They recently adopted a medical program that is supposed to cover the uninsured. Their costs have skyrocketed form the original estimate & cuts are already being made & they are wondering how to pay for it. I don't know if that state provides payments to helo programs, but if they do or did, see of they made any cuts or if their helo programs are suffering.

[Gomer Pylot]

This isn't about government getting into private lives, it's about health insurance companies continuing to make obscene profits. They are spending millions of dollars every day lobbying Congress to let them continue to increase rates and profits. There are few, if any, communities operating helicopters. They're operated by private, for-profit companies which are making a profit now from a 20% reimbursement rate, and the reimbursements are largely from insurance companies who are slower to pay than the government will ever be. The chief advisor to the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee is a former senior vice president of Wellpoint, and the former chief advisor is now a senior manager in another health insurance company. They wrote the bill from that committee.

 

A public option is just that, an option, not a mandate. Give me any other option than what I have now and I'll be happy. My adult children can't even afford health insurance at all. It's just too expensive, and thus we are all paying much higher taxes than necessary to treat what should be minor health problems in emergency rooms after they've become serious. Our healthcare system is badly broken, and it has to be fixed. There is nothing in the Constitution which guarantees enormous profits to health insurance companies. They're the only companies in the country, other than baseball teams, which are exempt from anti-trust laws, and they're abusing that exemption and have to be reined in.

 

In short, if a public option is enacted, EMS helicopter companies will make more profits, not less, and certainly won't go out of business.

[klas]

This isn't about government getting into private lives

 

Didn't say it was.

 

...it's about health insurance companies continuing to make obscene profits.

 

Who is to decide what is 'obscene' or not? What if someone in the Government decides YOU are making too much of a profit as a helo pilot? Or your company is? Maybe they will tax the cos. profits & put you out of a job. When someone decides to say one cos. profits are too much, that slope becomes quite slippery. And let's not forget that profits are what finances medical breakthroughs. What breakthroughs in the future are you willing to give up because you decide a co. is making too much? Cure for cancer? AIDS?

 

...A public option is just that, an option, not a mandate.

 

Canada's program started that way, as an option. Now, it's all they have - they don't have an option to not join the government as the 'option' has forced out all other choices. Option forces out the option to go private. 'Option' becomes only thing around.

 

...Our healthcare system is badly broken, and it has to be fixed.

 

Hurt, but not broken. Let's not destroy it to help a few. Let's work on the smaller things that are hurt to make it better, not throw it all out & start from scratch & use a system that is becoming too expensive & unworkable everywhere else.

 

...There is nothing in the Constitution which guarantees enormous profits to health insurance companies..

 

And there is nothing in the constitution that provides for a right to health care, either.

 

They're the only companies in the country, other than baseball teams, which are exempt from anti-trust laws, and they're abusing that exemption and have to be reined in.

 

I can pull up dozens of health insurance companies in each state with a click of the mouse. Don't think they have a monopoly.

 

....In short, if a public option is enacted, EMS helicopter companies will make more profits, not less, and certainly won't go out of business.

 

Do you have any evidence of this? Have you studied MA's plan? Or any other State? You think they will make profits based on getting paid a higher percentage? Well, what if they government forces the cost down? You know, only pays a percentage of the bill. They may pay 100% of the charges, but only 10% of the cost of those charges. That's what they do with medicare - they only allow a certain percentage.

Edited October 19, 2009 by klas

[statler]

Wow!

[500E]

In The UK every one has health care, we all pay for it in national health insurance, this is paid by both the person & his employer it includes doctors & hospitals, in the main it is OK, there are times when we moan it is not working as fast as we would like but if you are real ill the help is there.

My father had cancer for 3 years before he died and the treatment was thousands a month My mother did not have to worry about the cost.

It would appear that US No money or insurance no treatment, especially day to day minor things.We do pay for some dental work and prescriptions but again depending on your circumstances.

As for private treatment if you want to pay for faster treatment you can, but there is always the fall back.

The majority of the helimeds are paid for by public donations & are run as charities so are not for profit organisation.

Link To UK Air ambulance

http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/

I do not begrudge paying for health insurance for all, we are supposed to be a first world country's surely the health of your neighbour is important.

[Marc D]

Didn't say it was.

 

 

 

Who is to decide what is 'obscene' or not? What if someone in the Government decides YOU are making too much of a profit as a helo pilot? Or your company is? Maybe they will tax the cos. profits & put you out of a job. When someone decides to say one cos. profits are too much, that slope becomes quite slippery. And let's not forget that profits are what finances medical breakthroughs. What breakthroughs in the future are you willing to give up because you decide a co. is making too much? Cure for cancer? AIDS?

 

 

 

Canada's program started that way, as an option. Now, it's all they have - they don't have an option to not join the government as the 'option' has forced out all other choices. Option forces out the option to go private. 'Option' becomes only thing around.

 

 

 

Hurt, but not broken. Let's not destroy it to help a few. Let's work on the smaller things that are hurt to make it better, not throw it all out & start from scratch & use a system that is becoming too expensive & unworkable everywhere else.

 

 

 

And there is nothing in the constitution that provides for a right to health care, either.

 

 

 

I can pull up dozens of health insurance companies in each state with a click of the mouse. Don't think they have a monopoly.

 

 

 

Do you have any evidence of this? Have you studied MA's plan? Or any other State? You think they will make profits based on getting paid a higher percentage? Well, what if they government forces the cost down? You know, only pays a percentage of the bill. They may pay 100% of the charges, but only 10% of the cost of those charges. That's what they do with medicare - they only allow a certain percentage.

 

 

klas,

 

I could not agree more.

 

Marc D.

[klas]

In The UK every one has health care, we all pay for it in national health insurance, this is paid by both the person & his employer it includes doctors & hospitals, in the main it is OK, there are times when we moan it is not working as fast as we would like but if you are real ill the help is there.

My father had cancer for 3 years before he died and the treatment was thousands a month My mother did not have to worry about the cost.

It would appear that US No money or insurance no treatment, especially day to day minor things.We do pay for some dental work and prescriptions but again depending on your circumstances.

As for private treatment if you want to pay for faster treatment you can, but there is always the fall back.

The majority of the helimeds are paid for by public donations & are run as charities so are not for profit organisation.

Link To UK Air ambulance

http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/

I do not begrudge paying for health insurance for all, we are supposed to be a first world country's surely the health of your neighbour is important.

 

500E - too bad you don't work for the NHS:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/h...icle6879553.ece

[HelliBoy]

Praise the lord and pass the teabags...

 

What a well thought out and articulate argument. Typical of a brain dead leftist.

[500E]

klas And you point is?

I never said it was perfect, my comment was

"OK, there are times when we moan it is not working as fast as we would like but if you are real ill the help is there". I think I would rather wait a short time than have no cover, I also think there is a lot of waste in the NHS but it is there for all.

[rick1128]

Just keep in mind that these are the same folks that ran the best known brothel and bar in Nevada and lost money.

[SkidKid]

America does not have a health care crisis. We have some of the best health care in the world.

 

What we have is a health care PAYMENT problem. Everyone should share in the cost of their health care. This gives them a vested interest in keeping costs down. In order for them to shop for their provider, there should be a known cost for every procedure. You do not go to any other business in this country and purchase a good or service without knowing the cost. It works, and the more efficient providers thrive.

 

We also need tort reform. Many of the procedures done today are preventative in nature. Not preventative health wise, but rather preventative of law suits. CYA is a very inefficient use of health care dollars.

 

 

JMO and .02 worth.

[Gomer Pylot]

Lawsuits increase costs about 1%, even by the highest estimates. Current overhead in the private sector is more than 30%. Lawsuits are not the problem.

 

Yes, I'm a liberal, leftist if you will, but I don't admit braindead. Those who only watch Faux Propaganda Network and listen only to Limbaugh are the braindead ones. They are caught lying daily, but since they tell the rednecks what they want to hear, the rednecks never, ever question them, and actively avoid looking for the truth.

 

I won't change anyone's mind on this, obviously, so I'm done with this thread, but I still say the air ambulance companies will make much more money with a public option, and so to the air ambulance managers/owners. They know it very well, and are looking forward to it. The rest of you can believe what you want.

[SkidKid]

Lawsuits increase costs about 1%, even by the highest estimates. Current overhead in the private sector is more than 30%. Lawsuits are not the problem. Lawsuits result in Higher Premiums for Malpractice Insurance, which is part of overhead. As noted in my post, they also result in excessive testing, which costs the Health Care Insurance providers, thus, the payers.

 

Yes, I'm a liberal, leftist if you will, but I don't admit braindead. Those who only watch Faux Propaganda Network and listen only to Limbaugh are the braindead ones. They are caught lying daily, but since they tell the rednecks what they want to hear, the rednecks never, ever question them, and actively avoid looking for the truth. I find no one's post above that is calling you brain dead. But since you decided it was time to start calling other posters names, perhaps your own words are appropriate. I believe I know who you are, and admire your work, but this post is beneath you.

 

I won't change anyone's mind on this, obviously, so I'm done with this thread, but I still say the air ambulance companies will make much more money with a public option, and so to the air ambulance managers/owners. They know it very well, and are looking forward to it. The rest of you can believe what you want. Actually, not. There is great concern with additional regulation, and future payment schedules, especially for the company for which we both work.

[klas]

Perfect timing: In the most recent issue of Forbes magazine, they have a story on the 200 best small companies. One of them is Air Method's (listed at number 61 of the 200). Air Methods has, according to the article, 20% of the market.

 

The article touches on the very subject of health care reform & how it will effect the EMS industry.

 

Quote:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/1102/sma...te-profits.html

 

"...Costs can be controlled; health care reformers on Capitol Hill can't. Air Methods' paying customers include private insurers, as well as federal and state-run health plans. Government-run health insurance (beyond Medicare and Medicaid), if we ever get it, could do a real number on Todd's profit margins. "It's the biggest wild card for them," says Robert Labick, an analyst who follows Air Methods for CJs Securities.

 

The reason has to do with the company's two-sided operating model. In what Todd calls the "hospital-based" approach, Air Methods contracts with trauma centers that pay a fixed monthly fee to fly in critical patients from other hospitals. These hospitals take care of the patient billing, provide the nurses and paramedics, and usually own the aircraft; Air Methods supplies the pilots and mechanics. This business is solid and steady, mainly because the trauma centers make a good buck off of that particular brand of cargo. A 2008 Stanford University School of Medicine study showed that trauma patients, who need critical care, generate six times the revenue and four times the profit than patients who walk out of the emergency room on the same day. The other advantage to this model: Should insurance payouts suddenly drop for whatever reason, the hospitals--not Air Methods--would have to eat the difference.

 

Todd's "community-based" approach--in which insurance companies, not hospitals, write the checks--is not so immune to the vagaries of regulators. In this model, which involves 135 aircraft in 20 states, Air Methods owns the entire operation, setting up a helicopter or two at a small airport or fire station. Each base has roughly 13 full-time employees, including pilots, dispatchers and paramedics.

 

About 40% of patients have private insurance, from which Air Methods collects $14,000 per flight; 20% are on Medicare, yielding $5,000 a trip; Medicaid covers another 20%, at $2,500; and the final 20%, who are uninsured, cough up about $1,000. While all flights are ordered by a medical professional, resulting in few insurance-billing disputes, the pilots have no idea if the wounded party has any insurance before they take off. "We never self-dispatch and we respond to all calls," says Todd. According to Labick, Air Methods snags an average $7,000 per flight. At an average monthly fixed cost of $180,000 per base, and a marginal cost of $1,000 per flight (in fuel and manpower), Air Methods needs 30 flights a month per base to break even. The average base now does 35.

 

Here's the rub: While the hospital-based model governs two-thirds of Air Methods' flights, it accounts for only 35% of the company's revenue and 20% of its profit before interest and taxes. The 102 community bases (135 aircraft in 20 states) bring in the rest. Should federal health insurance get bigger, the choice cut of Todd's operation could suffer. The same goes for any regulation aimed at reducing Medicare and Medicaid payouts.

 

As this story went to press, the likelihood of a greatly expanded government-run health insurance department was dimming. "I don't see anything in any of the bills right now that would change the way air-medical companies are paid in the next five to ten years," says Robert Laszewski, the president of Health Care Policy & Strategy Associates, a Washington, D.C. consulting firm. "I think safety is probably a bigger issue for them right now...."

Edited October 26, 2009 by klas

[hookedonhelicopters]

I'd love some proof of FOX and Limbaugh lying repeatedly as you say.............. now as for CNN and Obama and the rest of the people that haven't seen the light.....

[Gomer Pylot]

http://mediamatters.org/

[EC120AV8R]

Sorry Gomer, but using Media Matters as a resource to support your argument is like answering a question with another question. David Brock (the founder) and the web site's own mission statement calls themselves "progressive", and their stated mission is to dispel "conservative misinformation". They are decidedly left, and it's like the fox (pardon the pun) watching the hen house. I would hardly consider them an unbiased source when it comes to topics like conservative talking heads like Rush et al.

[Gomer Pylot]

All they do is post what someone said, give a link to them saying it, then the truth, and a link to the truth. They call out anyone who lies, either side. But most right-wingers won't know that, because Big Bill O'Lielly forbids them to go there.

[helonorth]

All they do is post what someone said, give a link to them saying it, then the truth, and a link to the truth. They call out anyone who lies, either side. But most right-wingers won't know that, because Big Bill O'Lielly forbids them to go there.

Well, you know what they say: the truth has a distinctly liberal bias!

[West Coaster]

Back to the original post...

What are the thoughts about government run health insurance and what it will do to the Air Helicopter bases. Do you think some of the bases will have to shut down due to caps on the amount paid for that service. I have talked to several EMS pilots and they are concerned.

 

Coming from an EMS pilot in a country with social health care, you don't have anything to worry about. I honestly know nothing about how you folks run your HEMS stuff so I can't compare things. But considering all government contracted EMS ships here are multi IFR 2 crew birds (S76, A139, BK117, ect) cash flow doesn't seem to be an issue. Sure we've got a lot less HEMS here, but we also have about 1/10th your population spread over a much larger and more rural country.

 

Canada's program started that way, as an option. Now, it's all they have - they don't have an option to not join the government as the 'option' has forced out all other choices. Option forces out the option to go private. 'Option' becomes only thing around.

 

A: Not even close to being correct, sorry. About 30% of our health care comes from the private sector.

 

B: Why make it sound like some evil government take over? It's not the Borg we're talking about here... it's free health care. We wanted it this way and continually vote to keep it this way. That's why the original proponent of our health care system is viewed as a national hero and the most important Canadian to have ever lived, period.