Jump to content


Helicopter AcademyUpperLimit2011General_468x60SandelVRGen468VRGeneral468
Photo
- - - - -

helicopter or helicycle, why?


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 spubar44

spubar44

    ATP Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 57 posts

Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:57

I am interested in eventually owning my own helicopter in the future. I was looking at all the options of fairly affordable Helo type aircraft. I like the R22 and one can find one with it's hours almost used up but the cost of the R22 and then the cost of a rebuild counts it out for me. Then i was looking at the rotorway's and then the helicycles.

Here is the question?

it may just be someones personal preference, but why would someone buy a 40-70K helicycle, when they could buy a rotorway for around the same price that fits two people. I though the helicycle would be alot cheaper but i was really mistaken. Being smaller, one would think it would be. Fill me in here. Not sure i understand. Thanks

#2 Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greensboro n.c.
  • Interests:Gyroplanes and Experimental helicopter. still dreamin of a Commuter 2B helicopter someday. formerly the owner of Helicom Commuter H-1B N814S

Posted 27 October 2009 - 08:11

My answer to this is, I have had 7 Rotorway projects, last one was a Scorpion with the 162 engine. I then joined the Rotorway owners forums and learned even the execs have alot of issues. and I am not talking minor, I am talking secondary shafts breaking. engines shutting down when to key the Radio.

And the main thing I did not like is the Rotorway engine, you have to turn about 4,700 r.p.m. for flight.

I will never own another Rotorway money pit.

I have now bought a classic Helicom Commuter Jr. I am restoring, it is almost ready to fly, but I will be selling it once completed.

the Commuter is what the Safari helicopters evolved from. they are a welded 4130 steel airframe with a True aircraft engine for power, mine has a Cont' C90-12F engine converted to an 0-200 100 h.p. it uses true main and tail rotor gear box with a true swashplate useing control rods. ( unlike the flex cables the Rotorway uses with a crappy V belt tail rotor drive. I had a Rotorway Exec miss crashing on me at ROC-2006 from Loss of Tail rotor control.

the Helicycle new is Turbine powered and they are proving them selves every day as being a very good helicopter.

here are some pics of My Commuter Jr. I am restoring and will be up for sale soon.

I had bought it to restore for another guy,but as of last night he backed out of the deal,so now I have to find another Buyer.

I was building this one up to sell,so I could then buy a Commuter 2B,which is the 2 seat version.

anyway,my advice is if you want to fly forget the Rotorways.

also, if you ever liked the Mini-500, there is a new company that is now making replacement parts and also installing a 120 h.p. Yamaha sled engine, this engine is going to bring new life to the Mini-500 as a buddy of mine is doing the testing of one of these engines in his Gyroplane,so far 50 trouble free hours.

you can pick up an orphaned mini-500 for a song as most people do not know anything about the new company yet.

btw my Commuter will be sold for under $30,000 and it is fully licensed, N814S

you can see the complete restoration at www.rotaryforum.com

Attached Files


Edited by Dreamin of a Commuter 2B, 31 October 2009 - 10:58.


#3 67november

67november

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,464 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:land of 10,000 lakes (taxes)

Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:22

but why would someone buy a 40-70K helicycle, when they could buy a rotorway for around the same price that fits two people.


why buy either when you can buy a certified ship for that price

http://www.trade-a-p...e...&maxads=100


http://www.trade-a-p...e...&maxads=100

http://www.trade-a-p...e...&maxads=100

Edited by 67november, 27 October 2009 - 11:20.

spinning wings are better than fixed.

#4 r22butters

r22butters

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 921 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:The comments expressed here are not a complaint about the pilot's inability to find work, but merely opinions based on his own experiences,...your experience may differ!

    "Get to da choppa!" :)

Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:52

An R22 can only take about 400lbs. (pilot+passenger), before the CG gets too far forward. Does anyone know how the helicycles measure up? :huh:

P.S. It seems the most commonly misspelled word in these forums is "alot, allot", which is actually two words, "a lot". I find that rather funny. :blink:

#5 Inferno

Inferno

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Company working for:CFI....

Posted 27 October 2009 - 13:20

Someone once told me that if you weighed 200 lbs, you couldn't even bring a lunch with you in the helicycle....

Its a one place chopper. Not much room, and no payload. Kinda hard to compare to a 22. It is cheep (for our world) to buy and operate, plus its turbine powered.....

An R22 can only take about 400lbs. (pilot+passenger), before the CG gets too far forward. Does anyone know how the helicycles measure up? :huh:

P.S. It seems the most commonly misspelled word in these forums is "alot, allot", which is actually two words, "a lot". I find that rather funny. :blink:


Living the dream......

Aircraft Flown: R22, R44, R66, B206B, B206L, EC120, S300, C152, C172, C340

#6 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 14:09

Spubar44

The first thing you need to consider is that the purchase price may be the least expensive cost in obtaining a helicopter, especially for certified ships. You already discovered the "trap" to low priced high time Robbys and had you been able to accomodate it your ongoing operational cost will be well north of $150/hr and likewise for a Hughes/Schweizer/Sikorsky 269-300.

If you can fulfill your requirments with a single seater then a Helicycle is a great little ship. Many people who are positive they need a two seat soon find themselves flying mostly by themselves after giving the family and friends a few rides and really don't need the other seat in the long term. On the other hand you may know now that you will really need a second seat most of the time.

If you are looking for a good choice in single seats with reliability and great support check out the Mosquito helicopter line (Disclosure: we are the western US rep for this line), you'll look far and wide to get more bang for your buck (and fun) with operating costs from about $25/hr piston to just over $30/hr for the XET turbine model, see our site for details, videos etc. Usefull load is 240lb for the no license required ultralight AIR and XEL and the experimental XE. Useful load for the XE3 and XET is 290lb so you can definitely bring that sandwich with you on any of them or if you attach the option storage pod take a laptop and change of clothes as well. We can refer to you to several owners who fly their ships almost daily.

In the single seat market you will also find the occasional CH7 and many Mini 500s waiting to be resurrected if the new company (Millenium Helicopters) is successful with fixing the past problems. Just be sure if you are getting a used one of any brand that it is very, very thoroughly checked out by someone who knows these ships.

We work on and build all of them (ultralight and experimentals) and can can give the run down on each, feel free to call or email and chat.

Jay @

Edited by ROTOR F/X, 27 October 2009 - 14:23.

ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx

#7 Inferno

Inferno

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Company working for:CFI....

Posted 27 October 2009 - 14:57

Flying, and I can bring a sandwich. F***, I'm sold :)
Living the dream......

Aircraft Flown: R22, R44, R66, B206B, B206L, EC120, S300, C152, C172, C340

#8 Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greensboro n.c.
  • Interests:Gyroplanes and Experimental helicopter. still dreamin of a Commuter 2B helicopter someday. formerly the owner of Helicom Commuter H-1B N814S

Posted 27 October 2009 - 15:59

HI jay, how is Business going? loved the Video ya posted of the Turbine model.

I will probably list my single seat Commuter Jr. on your site soon.

#9 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 16:27

Flying, and I can bring a sandwich. F***, I'm sold :)


Hey, you can bring a whole loaf of sandwiches and your favorite beverages, better yet you can even afford them. You have no idea how great that sandwich tastes after meandering down your favorite river or cruising up to your favorite hill top for an hour or so and have only spent a $20 out of your pocket for the experience .. and in your own helicopter that you traded for the that second car sitting in your driveway (hey, the wife can take the bus to work right :) ) ...

Jay @
ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx

#10 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 16:34

HI jay, how is Business going? loved the Video ya posted of the Turbine model.

I will probably list my single seat Commuter Jr. on your site soon.


Been a booming year around here, guess the economy is driving many to look at the other alternatives we have and when they get there are pleasantly surprised.

Sounds like you are coming right along on the Jr. - when you're ready send us the info and we'll be happy to list it for you (free of course).

The turbine video is definitely a hit - we defy anyone to watch it and not let their pulse rate increase ... you know you want one ...

Jay @
ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx

#11 Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greensboro n.c.
  • Interests:Gyroplanes and Experimental helicopter. still dreamin of a Commuter 2B helicopter someday. formerly the owner of Helicom Commuter H-1B N814S

Posted 27 October 2009 - 17:43

Sounds like you are coming right along on the Jr. - when you're ready send us the info and we'll be happy to list it for you (free of course).

The turbine video is definitely a hit - we defy anyone to watch it and not let their pulse rate increase ... you know you want one ...

Jay @


Jay,screw the Mosquito, if I had the funds, the machine ya'll sell that I have the hots for is the AK1-3.

I have watched the development of that machine for a few years now, and all I can say is that is one impressive machine.

do you think the company will get them fully certified someday?

at any point,the Mosquito is a lot of bang for the buck and autos great,I watched John snyder (sp) put his thru several auto landings at Mentone the year before last and I was very impressed.

the MZ-202 looks to be a good power plant.

Edited by Dreamin of a Commuter 2B, 27 October 2009 - 17:45.


#12 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 18:27

Jay,screw the Mosquito, if I had the funds, the machine ya'll sell that I have the hots for is the AK1-3.

I have watched the development of that machine for a few years now, and all I can say is that is one impressive machine.

do you think the company will get them fully certified someday?

at any point,the Mosquito is a lot of bang for the buck and autos great,I watched John snyder (sp) put his thru several auto landings at Mentone the year before last and I was very impressed.

the MZ-202 looks to be a good power plant.


Unfortunately certification won't be coming for the AK-1 here in the US. The aircraft would pass with flying colors but the sticking point is the powerplant. While it performs beautifully, Subaru is never going to submit it for certification as an aviation engine so the ship will be staying as an experimental for now unless someone wants to invest major capital in an engine program and re-engineer the drive system to match.

The Mosquito is just a lot of pure flying fun. If you want to see someone really enjoy owning a helicopter go to Youtube and search "jerrywsoloflex". Jerry Wilson now in S. Oregon (inventor and owner of the Soloflex exercise machine and possibly the very first national infomercial) finished his Mosquito last spring and now flies it almost every day. He wears a helmet cam and posts his daily flights on YouTube for all to enjoy - dozens are on there to see. He just zips over to the neighbors, around the area, off to the golf course and occasionally to the Hillsboro airport. This man is having the time of his life for sure.

Jay @
ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx

#13 r22butters

r22butters

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 921 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:The comments expressed here are not a complaint about the pilot's inability to find work, but merely opinions based on his own experiences,...your experience may differ!

    "Get to da choppa!" :)

Posted 27 October 2009 - 18:29

Doesn't look like there's much room in those Mosquitos for a radio/transponder. Can you fly them in controlled airspace? :huh:

#14 StanFoster

StanFoster

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 112 posts

Posted 27 October 2009 - 19:38

Spubar- I bought my Helicycle kit...with the turbine...for $36500. I have to add to that the avionics, seat belt, batteries, and paint job. Very little msc. stuff....I will have no more than $42000 in it. Everyone of my gyroplanes were good investments...but nothing like this Helicycle. There are several guys over 240 pounds flying these....and one of these big boys that supposedly the Helicycle wont fly....went up to over 12300 feet in his. He is approaching 600 hours now.

So the rumors of them just holding a sandwich are not valid.

I have had two place gyroplanes...and after I gave everyone and their dog a ride...it dawned on me that I was risking my wifes future should say I get killed and injure or kill my passenger as well. I cashed out on my SparrowHawk and bought my Helicycle kit. I have talked to many Helicycle pilots....these are a very serious machine. I could never afford an R22.....and I have heard too many problems with Rotorways.....and I dont want a two seater anyway. Its whatever floats your boat I guess!

Stan Foster
Illinois

#15 Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greensboro n.c.
  • Interests:Gyroplanes and Experimental helicopter. still dreamin of a Commuter 2B helicopter someday. formerly the owner of Helicom Commuter H-1B N814S

Posted 27 October 2009 - 19:45

Stan, glad you chimed in, Stan has a sweet Helicycle he is almost finished building,if you want to see how one is built go to www.rotaryforum.com and look for his Helicycle thread.

it is a very well designed and built machine.

also just do a search for helicycles on youtube and you will see many pilots enjoying their machines.

#16 Goldy

Goldy

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,723 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Crescenta-VNY, CA
  • Interests:uuuh? flying helicopers maybe?
  • Company working for:Hey I didn't know you could loop an R22 ???

Posted 27 October 2009 - 21:33

Here is the question?

it may just be someones personal preference, but why would someone buy a 40-70K helicycle, when they could buy a rotorway for around the same price that fits two people. I though the helicycle would be alot cheaper but i was really mistaken. Being smaller, one would think it would be. Fill me in here. Not sure i understand. Thanks


Show me just one Rotorway that has ever had enough hours on it to warrant a real overhaul. Most get overhauled because crap breaks on them every 20 hours of hovering. ( I'll be dodging crap thrown at me from the Rotorway group!!. BTW I used to doodle pictures of the scorpion in elementary school...so I do owe it some respect).

At least an R22 is a real ship, and can put in some time. I used to fly one that had almost 10,000 hours on it. Unfortunately it finally died when a student was practicing auto's and rolled it, but the ship ran strong up till its last day.

The robbie is really the smallest, cheapest, "real" certified helicopter. You can pick up a decent deal with a few hundred hours left on it, fly them off, and then sell the ship as timed out. It really wont cost you that much.

Goldy

Edited by Goldy, 27 October 2009 - 21:38.

Fly Safe !!

Goldy-CPL(H),R22A, HP, B, BII, R44R1,RII,R44Clipper, R66, B47G2, S300C, S333, B206B3, DG500, RV10, E480B, AS350BA, what next?

FAA Aircraft Dealer
http://www.bestaerialphoto.com
http://www.phpa.org
http://www.rotorcraftpro.com
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvN3GDEXPos
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9SO5uCno

#17 Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greensboro n.c.
  • Interests:Gyroplanes and Experimental helicopter. still dreamin of a Commuter 2B helicopter someday. formerly the owner of Helicom Commuter H-1B N814S

Posted 27 October 2009 - 21:47

Show me just one Rotorway that has ever had enough hours on it to warrant a real overhaul. Most get overhauled because crap breaks on them every 20 hours of hovering.


Goldy you are correct, I could not believe how many issues the Rotorways have. even brand new built ones.

and then they do not have good control authority and you see many of them rolled over.

many times I have read about the pilot making a good autorotation when they had a problem, only for it to go over on it's side after touch down.

also tail rotor breakages, secondary shaft breakages, belt slippage, drive chain oil houseing leaks that coused main belts to slip.

and of course the Engines have some issues also. my 162 engine would lose it's oil prime if it sat a few weeks, I would have to take the lines off and pour oil into them to get the engine primed. when you have an engine that turns 5,000 r.p.m. ,you want a better oiling system, also my engine had problems with the rocker arms having to be adjusted all the time, sometime at even 1,000 r.p.m. the rocker arm would loosen up enough to jump off the push rod.

no thanks I will feel a lot better knowing I have a real aircraft engine behind me now.

just go on youtube and you can hear the rotorway engines screaming their guts out to fly in any of the Rotorway videos.

Edited by Dreamin of a Commuter 2B, 27 October 2009 - 21:50.


#18 MN Heli Flyer

MN Heli Flyer

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

Posted 27 October 2009 - 22:18

An R22 can only take about 400lbs. (pilot+passenger), before the CG gets too far forward. Does anyone know how the helicycles measure up? :huh:

P.S. It seems the most commonly misspelled word in these forums is "alot, allot", which is actually two words, "a lot". I find that rather funny. :blink:


Wikipedia:
Alot is a town and nagar panchayat in the Ratlam district of Madhya Pradesh, India.

Alot is home to an ancestral temple of Shiva, which is more than 5,000 years old, and where it is said that Hanuman took rest while picking Sanjivani Booti, leaving a footprint still visible.

Every year on Kartik Purnima Alot holds a mela for a livestock market.
"Whether you think you can or you think you canít, youíre right."
Henry Ford

#19 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 22:22

Doesn't look like there's much room in those Mosquitos for a radio/transponder. Can you fly them in controlled airspace? :huh:

Actually the three experimental models, XE, XE3 and XET come with a complete panel and the XET has a full color EFIS with moving maps, TAWS, AHRS, voice alerts, GPS, flight data recorder, HUMS and a long list of additional features. (Disclosure - we are an installing dealer for this equipment from MGL Avionics). Simply add your favorite comm and xponder - we recommend the low profile 6 watt V10 also from MGL that conveniently fits in a standard 3 1/8" panel hole. There is plenty of room in several locations to install this equipment. It is very "space concious" as it is specifically designed for all ultralight, experimental and sport aircraft (see attached)

The two ultralight models are configured with the same basic instrument group and although the XEL has the room for it, the maximum weight limit for the Part 103 ultralight category precludes installing any additional equipment. Many P103 pilots carry portable comms and GPS for safety and convenience but transponders are not necessary as ultralights are not allowed in controlled airspace anyway.

Jay @

Attached Files


ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx

#20 ROTOR F/X

ROTOR F/X

    PVT Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Van Nuys, CA USA
  • Interests:Ultralight and experimental rotorcraft including helicopters and gyrocopters.
  • Company working for:ROTOR F/X LLC

Posted 27 October 2009 - 23:12

Spubar- I bought my Helicycle kit...with the turbine...for $36500. I have to add to that the avionics, seat belt, batteries, and paint job. Very little msc. stuff....I will have no more than $42000 in it. Everyone of my gyroplanes were good investments...but nothing like this Helicycle. There are several guys over 240 pounds flying these....and one of these big boys that supposedly the Helicycle wont fly....went up to over 12300 feet in his. He is approaching 600 hours now.

So the rumors of them just holding a sandwich are not valid.

Stan Foster
Illinois


Hi Stan,

Now here is an example of an incredible build and an extraordinary Helicycle, meticulous craftsmanship and seemingly unending patience for every minute detail. There are literally thousands waiting for the first video and pics of this one flying. Also congrats Stan on passing your checkride a few days ago (as if there was ever any question that you wouldn't). All the best and really enjoy following your project.

Jay @
ROTOR F/X LLC
"Everything Rotorcraft"
info@rotorfx.com
www.rotorfx.com
+1 818.574.7663
skype: rotor_fx




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Content Spy



JR Aviation General 200ColoradoHeliOpsGeneral200NFCVRGeneral200BristowGeneral200OdysseyGeneral200MaunaLoaSoftwareVRGeneral200HeliAviationVRGen200HeliHelmetsPrecisionVRForumGeneral200