Safety from Mid air's

[Goldy]

Ok, often time I am sarcastic just to light a fire. But in this case, this is the stuff that is supposed to save our ass when all else....like see and avoid, fail.

 

The FAA has some proposed changes in light of the very tragic mid air along the Hudson this year that killed ( I think ) 9 people. So, reading from Rotorcraft Pro magazine, here are some excerpts from the FAA plan.

 

1. New Class B airspace above 1300 feet, that would "require" pilots to communicate on the appropriate frequency.

 

Commentary- if both pilots were on the appropriate freq, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And lowering Class B could encourage more pilots to fly "under" it, than thru it.

 

2. Requires a common radio frequency be used between ground-1300 feet.

 

Same comment applies here.

 

3. Set speeds at 140 knots or less.

 

Have you ever flown headlong into another aircraft at your 12 o clock while both of you were doing 140 knots at the same altitude? I dont mean close to the same altitude...I mean...exactly the same! All I can say, is crap happens pretty fast at those closing speeds.

 

4. Pilots will be required to turn on position, nav and anti collision lights.

 

Wow, there's a no brainer. Do you think just maybe this should be required in ALL congested areas and not just in New York?

 

5. Pilots would be REQUIRED to have charts of the area available.

 

Geez, there's a new one guys. Never thought I would actually need a chart on board an aircraft..it's BRILLIANT ! Hmm, this one sure sounds familiar, maybe I should actually read those FAR's first?

 

6. The NTSB issued it's independent recommendations, but those were not used by the FAA. In fact, the FAA issued theirs on Aug 28, the NTSB's came out on 8-27.

 

Excuse me? Isnt that my tax money at work? We have the experts in aviation safety(NTSB) making recommendations, but don't worry, the FAA knows what they are doing, they don't need no stinnking recommendations!

 

Remember, this is the same government that is getting that H1N1 flu vaccine out to everyone....well, maybe not everyone, maybe not this year!.

 

I have been an advocate of improving the old, "see and avoid" rules for some time. What we need in congested metro areas is a designated frequency that ANYONE flying below 1000 AGL needs to actively monitor and report on.

 

We need a transponder in every aircraft, not just in the 30 nm ring of class B.

 

We need every aircraft below 1000 AGL to fly with all lights on all the time.

 

This is no brainer crap. But we should not wait until 9 people die in Los Angeles to implement it. No wait, only 3 more will have to die...we lost 3 in the mid air outside Long Beach last year, and I think 3 in the Corona Mid air. oh yeah. just lost 9 crewmembers outside LA when a C130 met a Cobra.

 

So I figure thats 15 people gone in the last 12 months, all within the 40 or so miles of LAX. Time we did something to the rules.

 

 

Fly safe,

 

Goldy

 

(edited typo's)

Edited November 5, 2009 by Goldy

[arotrhd]

Right there with you Goldy. How does it go...rules were made because of the 10% and the 90% get the consequences. Kinda like bad guys and guns. They still get 'em & use 'em irregardless of the laws (at least here in smellyfornia). You knows 'bouts that too, G.

And in as much as I know the 'rules' about accident investigation - get the facts first - a mid-air involving CG on a KNOWN SAR case and MC Whiskey on training is inexcusable.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[Goldy]

- a mid-air involving CG on a KNOWN SAR case and MC Whiskey on training is inexcusable.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

Sad thing too- I think I just saw this exact C130 at the Wings and Rotors show last week. How this could possibly happen is beyond me, but we'll wait for the investigation. I wouldnt know where to start guessing anyway.

 

Goldy

[Linc]

All I can say is that I don't see how the new rules even address the reported events that contributed to the midair in the Hudson River corridor.

[Gomer Pylot]

As always, the FAA does something (anything) so that they can say they did something. Class B airspace (Terminal Control Areas back then) were invented to cover their rear after the midair at San Diego, in which two aircraft both under radar control from approach control, under IFR in VMC, hit each other. The airliner misidentified the small airplane in front of it, and overtook it at a big speed difference. Since they were both under radar control, the thing to do was obviously to increase radar control. I have seen nothing in 40+ years of observing and being regulated by the FAA that made much sense, or gave me any confidence in their ability to do the job.

 

As for the flu vaccine, that's a different thing entirely. The government has no vaccine-making capability, and the CDC has been underfunded and run by political appointees for years. The only way to get the vaccine is to contract it out to private industry, where the motive is not to produce maximum doses of vaccine, but to produce maximum profits. There was no way to produce the vaccine except to use the usual suspects, and to produce that much vaccine takes a lot of time and many millions of chicken eggs. We'll get the vaccine when the drug companies calculate that they can make the maximum profit off it. I have much less faith in drug companies than I do in the FAA.

[kodoz]

4. Pilots will be required to turn on position, nav and anti collision lights.

 

Wow, there's a no brainer. Do you think just maybe this should be required in ALL congested areas and not just in New York?

 

We need every aircraft below 1000 AGL to fly with all lights on all the time.

 

This is no brainer crap....

 

Well, the standard for no-brainers changes with who you ask. I did my flight training at an uncontrolled airport. Some days it felt like playing dodgeball in 3 dimensions. My usual instructor had no problem with putting all the lights on whenever either of us felt like it was warranted. Same school, different day, different instructor, I got slapped down for flipping the landing light on on a hazy day with traffic in the vicinity. ???!

 

So, the starting place for any of these ideas to be helpful is consistent and professional training, both at the primary and recurrent level.

 

In lieu of that, just activate your paranoid persecution complex every time you pick up.

[r22butters]

I've had a few close-calls myself over the years, and well,...let's face it, the only ones out there who can really keep us safe, are us. Relying on the government to do anything is like waiting for your girlfriend to pick up the check,...it just ain't gonna happen.

 

Its funny though, I was flying with a guy in a 206 once, it was pretty hazey out so I turned on the landing light,...you know, just to be safe. He reached over and turned it off, said he didn't want it to burn out, "those lights are expensive."

[Goldy]

Its funny though, I was flying with a guy in a 206 once, it was pretty hazey out so I turned on the landing light,...you know, just to be safe. He reached over and turned it off, said he didn't want it to burn out, "those lights are expensive."

 

Personally I fly with the running and landing light on almost 100% of the time. I've had guys turn them off, I just flip them back on. The cyclic landing light switch on the 44 is easy to reach with your left thumb!

 

I WANT the FAA to add more regulation, as its the only way to get a majority of the pilots to do the smart, safe thing. I just don't feel that they did enought to prevent any mid airs in New York, and why don't they think the same risks exists in other airspaces?

 

I fly into a lot of uncontrolled airports, and I dodge a lot of airplanes. At least those that I can see.

 

It's sometimes very hard to spot another aircraft, a small helicopter like an R44 almost impossible, and an R22...you might as well be invisible. If you think others can see you, you're dead wrong.

 

Turn on your lights, it might just save a life.....yours.

 

Goldy

[arotrhd]

I WANT the FAA to add more regulation, as its the only way to get a majority of the pilots to do the smart, safe thing.

 

Sorry to disagree (wow!), but common sense can't be regulated (our rules), only nature's = natural consequences. Those who can't swim in the deep end of the gene pool get a taste of chlorine. Unfortunately, though, a lot of good people (& innocent) get caught up and pay the price, and far too often, those who really need to exit this planet are gently pushed back to the shallow side and give the rest of us a black eye or worse.

 

From yesterday:

"The head of the FAA says recent cases of pilot error may indicate a trend toward lower standards of professionalism. 'I can't regulate professionalism,' said Administrator Randy Babbitt, himself a former airline pilot, during a Wednesday speech. 'With everything we know about human factors, there are still those who just ignore the common sense rules of safety.' Under Babbitt, the FAA has been stressing the need for increased professionalism, including the mentoring of new pilots by more experienced veterans."

 

I guess it's a start...like denial is the first step to recovery.

 

And then we have the Lifenet wire strike last night (I'm not even going to try to recall how many wire strikes occurred so far this year, much less ANOTHER HEMS related accident). Very fortunate with safe landing and only the ship was OTS for a while.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[Goldy]

From yesterday:

"The head of the FAA says recent cases of pilot error may indicate a trend toward lower standards of professionalism. 'I can't regulate professionalism,'

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

No you cant Mr FAA. But you currently allow aircraft to fly around my airspace without transponders or radios. No rules to fly with lights on, no rules on altitudes to maintain (I'm talking Class G here of course).

 

Words like " congested area" which have no real definition. Just a subjective interpretation of what one pilot thinks over another.

 

I could give a ** if some stupid pilot wants to go out and kill himself doing stupid stuff, just dont take me down with him.

 

We need a serious re-write of the rules we fly in. No, we can't mandate safety, or doing smart things, but we can at least START with some sensible rules !

 

Goldy

[arotrhd]

Thanks Goldy. Let's try incentives...I'll PM you later for setting up a brew somewhere 'round our local foothill hoods.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[Goldy]

Thanks Goldy. Let's try incentives...I'll PM you later for setting up a brew somewhere 'round our local foothill hoods.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

I'll buy a beer anytime. Too bad we dont have a local helipad to meet at....oh...guess if it was a helipad, we'd be meeting for a coke !

Edited November 7, 2009 by Goldy

[arotrhd]

Never said what kind of beer... hefen...root...birch...

 

I gotta buy - you're a 6 pointer.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[nightsta1ker]

Personally, I don't have the landing light on all the time. It can be as much of a hazard as it can be a help, I have found (this warrants it's own discussion in a separate thread), but I do use it liberally. I keep a pretty good scan, and I love communicating with other aircraft, it increases the comraderie of sharing the air. I frequently use my light to signal other aircraft of my position. Turn it on and off like a strobe a few times, they will notice you much quicker than if it was just ON. I do keep it on when the weather is getting foul. I also find mysel turning it off at night, unless I am in a congested area or in the vicinity of an airport. We get a lot of complaints from the earth-bound around these parts, I try to be considerate when I can and not shine spot lights in peoples houses at night.

 

In my opinion, the landing light is a great tool, but one that needs to be used intelligently. Leaving it off all the time is bad, but so is leaving it on all the time too. And there is simply no substitute for a good scan, clearing your turns, and good communication procedures. That's my two cents.

[aeroscout]

80% of midairs occur from an overtaking aspect. That is behind the lead aircrafts 3/9 line by a higher performance aircraft. Disassociating by higher speed using higher altitude should help reduce this statistic. When the low slow guys poke their heads up into the higher faster territory the odds of midair go up.

[eagle5]

80% of midairs occur from an overtaking aspect. That is behind the lead aircrafts 3/9 line by a higher performance aircraft. Disassociating by higher speed using higher altitude should help reduce this statistic. When the low slow guys poke their heads up into the higher faster territory the odds of midair go up.

 

It works both ways! I've had some close encounters with the fast guys down here in the "slow lane".

[Goldy]

80% of midairs occur from an overtaking aspect. That is behind the lead aircrafts 3/9 line by a higher performance aircraft. Disassociating by higher speed using higher altitude should help reduce this statistic. When the low slow guys poke their heads up into the higher faster territory the odds of midair go up.

 

Wow- re-reading my post almost shocks me how pissed I was. I think it was the timing of my own close call, the CG mid air that killed so many needlessly and the FAA ruling all combined! I'm not usually quite so, shall we say, "passionate".

 

Interesting statistic on the mid airs, although I always fly with running lights on knowing that the red/green are worthless in the daytime, but the white aft light just might be seen by an approaching aircraft coming up my tailcone. I also use my landing light on/off to help signal other aircraft when I know someone is looking for me. Unfortunately, landing lights are just that, and designed to angle the beam down, not out.

 

We've made some changes in the LA space since I first wrote this post. And we do all have freq's to talk on now below 2500AGL. Not everyone has it figured out, but I think overall its better than it was then.

 

Let's hope we make it even better without having to lose any more lives.

[nightsta1ker]

I second that!

[aeroscout]

I second that!

Me too. I especially liked the talking on a common freq idea.

[nightsta1ker]

 

Me too. I especially liked the talking on a common freq idea.

 

Up here in the Seattle area we have a Multicom freq for a high traffic area underneath KSEA class bravo. Unfortunately the plank wing drivers don't use it, though they frequently cut through at altitudes of 1000 or less.

[500F]

None of those proposed rules would have had any effect on the Huson mid-air. The helicopter was on climbout and the first radar ping just as teterboro handed him off. The airplane pilot never got switched to the proper freq. for newark. Chances are he spent his last 15 or so seconds messing with his radio. no one could talk to him at that time.It looks like he looked up at the last second and started an evaisve manouver but didnt get it off in time.

 

Part of the problem would appear to be that the airplane pilot (doctor) didnt have his enroute freqs pre-programmed.

[aeroscout]

 

 

Part of the problem would appear to be that the airplane pilot (doctor) didnt have his enroute freqs pre-programmed.

 

This one sentence says so much.

[nightsta1ker]

Cockpit management. Keep the inside stuff to a minimum so you can stay OUTSIDE! 'Nuff said.

[Goldy]

Up here in the Seattle area we have a Multicom freq for a high traffic area underneath KSEA class bravo. Unfortunately the plank wing drivers don't use it, though they frequently cut through at altitudes of 1000 or less.

 

That was our problem in LA as well. Thanks to the So Cal airspace committee,(http://www.scauwg.org/) look at an LA chart now, and it instructs ALL aircraft below 2500 to monitor and report position on a common freq. It then got so busy that we split LA in half and now have a north and south common talk channel.

 

Now if we could just get all pilots to buy and read the new charts!

Edited April 25, 2012 by Goldy