Guest Maximinious Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) . Edited August 13, 2010 by Maximinious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Call your local FSDO and ask them what they think!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hah. I say no: CFR 1.1, PIC means "the person who..." 61.51 allows 2 pilots to log PIC b/c one is the sole manipulator of the controls, and the CFI is responsible for the operation and safety of the flight. 61.195(g) Position in aircraft and 91.109(a) don't state that the instructor has to be in a pilot station, but do require that training be given in an aircraft with dual controls. The requirement for a throwover control device, though, suggests that the instructor has to be able to control the aircraft. While we're playing mental games, what if a private pilot was receiving instrument instruction from a CFII in the rear seat, and a private pilot in the front seat was serving as the safety pilot? Could all 3 then log PIC time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohi Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 You can log whatever you want to log. The last time I flew to Heathrow airport I logged about 14 hours as 82nd in command. All turbine, multi, and IFR time also. A few more of those flights and I will be ready for my ATP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delorean Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Like the other guy said, log whatever you want, but it's going to be your responsibility to prove you were acting as PIC when sitting in front of the FAA panel or NTSB ALJ. There was an old case of two MEIs that bought a small twin to build time. They flew 400-500 hrs in this thing both logging PIC and both logging "dual given" and "dual received". The FAA nailed them since it it was far fetched that both were giving each other instruction over those 500 hrs. It was just time building. Even if one logged dual given, and the other dual received, it wasn't a good defense for them. If it was all IFR and one was safety pilot, then they may have gotten away with it. The FARs allow that. Same goes when two PPL rent a helicopter, split the cost, then log all the time. Not legal, but who is going to catch them? Finally, another aside, did you know a FAA Inspector can give a checkride for the backseat? My CFI checkride, was me giving a guy his private checkride with the inspector in the back. We handed the controls back and forth and were both done in an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inferno Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Woah. Learn something new every day.... Finally, another aside, did you know a FAA Inspector can give a checkride for the backseat? My CFI checkride, was me giving a guy his private checkride with the inspector in the back. We handed the controls back and forth and were both done in an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copterdoctor Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 So now that the new regs are in force as of 10-20-09. How are you suppose to log time as a CFI when you are accompanying a student who is pursuiing a commercial rating and is "accompanied by his qualified flight instructor" on his "solo" time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohi Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 So now that the new regs are in force as of 10-20-09. How are you suppose to log time as a CFI when you are accompanying a student who is pursuiing a commercial rating and is "accompanied by his qualified flight instructor" on his "solo" time. Nothing changes. You log exactly what you do. If you are giving dual instruction, then you log dual given and the student logs dual received. The regulations do not say that the student can log solo time; solo time still is only when the student is the sole occupant of the aircraft. What the regulations say is that there is basically no need for solo commercial flights at all. 61.129(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a helicopter or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a helicopter with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph ©(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127((3) that includes— ©(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time... 61.51(d) Logging of solo flight time. ...a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzchopper Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 So here is a question for ya. If you're a CFI in an R22 with a PP who is working on his/her CPLH at night in the pattern and there is only one set of controls in the helicopter can you log it as PIC and can the student logged it as solo PIC?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotormandan Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 quote name='yzchopper' date='Dec 4 2009, 18:21 ' post='88712'So here is a question for ya. If you're a CFI in an R22 with a PP who is working on his/her CPLH at night in the pattern and there is only one set of controls in the helicopter can you log it as PIC and can the student logged it as solo PIC?? Neither. The student isn't solo because the CFI is in there. If any pilot flys with any pax then it's not solo. They are of course the pic though. The CFI is pretty much just a pax here. He/she couldn't be pic because as stated: name='kodoz' date='Dec 2 2009, 00:00 ' post='88622'61.51 allows 2 pilots to log PIC b/c one is the sole manipulator of the controls, and the CFI is responsible for the operation and safety of the flight. 61.195(g) Position in aircraft and 91.109(a) don't state that the instructor has to be in a pilot station, but do require that training be given in an aircraft with dual controls. The CFI could however log dual given or instruction time but not any pilot time for that flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzchopper Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Thank you for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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