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To the academy? Or not to the academy?


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yes indeed, and i won't deny either of yal's experience or the input.

 

my opinion/knowledge is ever evolving, but im not gonna just let some guy on the internet try and make me feel stupid for things i already know or am actively researching.

 

 

I've been a street cop for a while now. I have my private and hope to someday be part of my agencies air unit. The biggest piece of advise I can give you is, change your attitude.

 

Based on your original post, you haven't even been hired yet by the PD and if you already "know it all", you are gonna have a real tough time making it through the academy etc. At my agency it's 90% about having a great attitude, work ethic, being a guy everyone gets along with etc. Whether you realize it or not, from day one you are making deposits or withdrawls into the reputation/ character bank. The guys on this forum and this website are a huge resource, seasoned veterans and are more than willing to help. Just giving you something to think about....

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I am training for my PVT under 141, getting close to my final stage check. I intend on going for my commercial immediately after obtaining my PVT license.

 

I am also simultaneously going thru the application process for the Philly police department.

 

I am currently of the opinion that since the city is sort of broke but has an aviation unit that just got 3 new as350's last summer that i will be a good candidate for them after i do my time on the streets.

So you have nothing going in the aviation industry, and nothing going in the law enforcement industry.

Here's a tip...When Flying Pig says "it sounds like you have it all figured out" he's being very very polite.

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I usually tell folks to pursue both paths independently (although initially, not at the exact same time). Get hired as an Officer and a year or two into it, seek certification through CFII. While working the street and hopefully earning a spot in the air unit, get a part-time job as an instructor and build time. This way when the opportunity does come along, you are more than qualified for the spot with an emphasis on “more than”…….. If that spot never materializes, guess what, you’re still building time and when you’re ready, you can change careers and fly for a living…… Win-win……

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My unit had both FW and RW. I initially identified FW as my target. Got my commercial and instrument FW and then started flying A LOT with civil air patrol. I later added my RW private. I got on as a TFO and later got tapped to fly the airplane. After that, I decided I would add my RW commercial. And a few years later when a RW pilot retired I was able to slide over to his helicotper spot. About 8yrs later, Here I still am. Took me about 8yrs working the street before I finally got Into asu initially.

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I knew a career Officer who was an experienced FW pilot who owned his own twin and IFR proficient that received his helicopter certification, and through a chain of events, was immediately assigned as PIC in the department helicopters. Not long after his assignment, he was placed in charge of the unit. Shortly thereafter, he died with his mechanic while ferrying the machine from a maintenance facility back to home base………

Edited by Spike
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It also depends on how the management sees their unit. Some see it as a police station that happens to have helicopters. The better ones see it as a flying squadron that supports the police.

 

The first group says "Ya gotta be a street cop first, to know how the bad guys think. Flying is a piece of cake, anybody can learn to fly, you don't need flying experience, just street experience."

 

The second group says "Anybody can learn to be a cop. An experienced pilot is better able to put the machine where the other cop(s) in the aircraft want it to be."

 

Our unit had state-wide coverage and as well as aerial support for covert surveillance (6000') we also did search and rescue - not a job for a rookie PVT pilot.

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From my experience, it comes down to the difference between “managing” a unit and “leading” a unit. If the stars, bars and stripes don’t understand the difference, it can demoralize the best of units, the people within, and ultimately diminish safety…….

 

Who has a bigger ego than a cop? - A pilot….
Who has a bigger ego than a pilot? -A cop who’s a pilot…..
Who has a bigger ego than a cop that’s a pilot? -A cop, pilot supervisor…….
Who has a bigger ego than a cop pilot supervisor? –the Chain of Command…….

Edited by Spike
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Funny..... I had an interview yesterday and one of my questions was "What are one of the challenges you see in running an LE air unit." I responded.... "Pilots with type A personalities meshed with cops who are type A personalities working with managers who have no real interest in aviation."

 

It all comes down to the individual units. Some can do it right and some cant. The only difference with LE air units who cant vs civilian operators who cant, is that civilian operators just eventually go out of business. In actuality, most LE air units perform to the level that the command staff needs them to.

Really the whole sworn vs civilian argument is irrelevant. The agency I was with trains their own pilots from the sworn TFOs..... and has been doing it for 15+ yrs. And the mission covers everything from SAR, NVG, mountains up to 13K.. long lining, patrol and remote ops. Then a neighboring agency tasked with nothing but local flat land city patrol has pilots who wont fly past the city limits because its dark and they don't have NVGs. But then again... nothing in their mission requires them to fly outside the city limits. They are paid to work patrol ops in the city that pays the bills.

Its really a discussion that can go back and forth all day. I started as a cop who became an LE pilot... and now Im a civilian pilot who was a cop... so go figure.

Edited by Flying Pig
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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the best advise for someone wanting to fly for law enforcement is to want to be the best cop. If all you want to do is fly, you probably won't be doing a good job as an officer, and they are unlikely to give you a plum assignment like aviation, no matter what your qualifications. I went through the academy, tried to be the best, worked patrol, tried to be the best, worked investigations, tried to be the best, and lo and behold, after only six years, was assigned to aviation. I already had private and instrument airplane. It can happen, but you have to do research, go to an agency that has an active aviation unit, and, above all, do your best. Luck also comes in, but luck comes to those that work hard and are prepared.

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I run in to this pretty regularly, like Flying Pig says, disclose it on your application of course but otherwise keep it to yourself until you get the lay of the land. Philly is a huge agency and there is probably more than a couple of other people working on getting into aviation. Seniority will play a role as well as politics. There are people that will never get into whatever speciality unit no matter what qualifications they have because they pissed off the wrong person.

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From my experience, it comes down to the difference between “managing” a unit and “leading” a unit. If the stars, bars and stripes don’t understand the difference, it can demoralize the best of units, the people within, and ultimately diminish safety…….

 

Who has a bigger ego than a cop? - A pilot….

Who has a bigger ego than a pilot? -A cop who’s a pilot…..

Who has a bigger ego than a cop that’s a pilot? -A cop, pilot supervisor…….

Who has a bigger ego than a cop pilot supervisor? –the Chain of Command…….

What's the difference between pilots and God?

 

God doesn't think he's a pilot.

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There are 3 initial questions to ask yourself if you are outside of LE looking at an air unit. Do they hire experienced pilots externally? Do they train their own pilots? Does the unit require prospective pilots to obtain their own ratings before they are considered? If they hire externally, then there is your answer. Becoming a cop there wont help you. If they train their own pilots, they already have the funding set aside and already having a rating becomes less impressive or may have no bearing at all in the selection. They will select the most qualified applicants for the TFO (Tactical Flight Officer-Observer) spot and then over the period of probably the next couple years, slowly start training that TFO to be a pilot depending on the needs of the unit. Ive seen TFOs who just never had the chance to become a pilot because there was never an opening. There is a misnomer out there that because you are a pilot, the dept will just assign you to aviation. No, rarely is that the case. Units are almost always budgeted for slots for every unit. So a unit may be slotted for 3 pilots and 3 TFOs. You can want in all day long, if nobody ever vacates one of those spots, you will never get a chance.

 

You cant look at an agency being broke or well funded as an indicator as to whether or not they train pilots. You would be very surprised at the agencies who pay for their pilots training and maybe more surprised at the ones that don't. If you are not hired as a pilot specifically, then its imperative that an applicant understands that they are not competing for a pilot slot, you are most likely going to be competing for a TFO slot. And for the TFO slot, you will be competing against street cops. Because thats what a TFO is. They are a street cop who is being chauffeured around to do a job. The TFO is the tool. The helicopter, flown by the pilot, is how the TFO gets to the job site. If the TFO could get to the job site without the pilot... I can guarantee you just about every agency would eliminate their pilot slots. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen with TFO applicants who have a cert is that they spend the entire interview talking about the fact that they are a pilot and rarely mention anything about why we should select them as a TFO. Ive also had people who wander down to the hangar with their newly minted CFI cert from the local school and generously offer that if we hired them on as a unit pilot, they would be more than willing to help the unit pilots obtain our FAA ratings. Believing the urban legend that many LE air units have pilots who don't have FAA certificates.

 

Like we discussed before, there is the sworn vs civilian discussion. Its irrelevant. We can debate it all day long but it doesn't have any bearing on your situation because agencies make their own decisions. Ive seen places where the civilian pilot is hired, and stays a civilian partnered with a sworn TFO. Ive seen civilian pilots hired and sent to the academy, and go straight to the pilot seat. Ive seen them graduate the academy and then go to the FTO program where they fail and are terminated because they didnt have the basic abilities to act as an LEO. Some agencies may send you through as a formality, and with others, you get the full ride with no slack. No different than an experienced civilian pilot making it into Army Flight School and failing out of Warrant Officer School. You couldnt make it through a basic patrol training program, but you expect the guys on the ground to take your tactical input from the air? A lot of agencies run dual pilot crews meaning the pilots all switch off acting as the observer so you need to know how to think like a street cop on the days you act as a TFO. Some civilian hired pilots do it some cant. Ive also seen pilots hired externally, told they would go straight to aviation, and once hired on, they find themselves going through an entire full field patrol training program. When they complained about the bait and switch (intentional or unintentional) told "Theres the door if you want to leave. We hired you for your pilot skills, but you'll be a cop first." You don't have to like it. Its just how it can be some times. Many agencies aren't going to employ a pilot who can only be used as a pilot. If you are down for Mx, weather, budgets, etc.... guess what you get to do? Well, you get to do whatever they need you to do. Other agencies, the pilots are completely off limits whether sworn or civilian.

 

Does this all sound confusing? Yes, as a whole it does. But in reality its not. All you need to do is look at the agency you ultimately want to fly for and figure out a way to understand their specific dynamics. Ive worked for 4 separate LE agencies in 2 states. The first 2 agencies I didn't fly for. I started as a deputy working in the jail. I lateralled to another agency because I wasnt willing to spend 5-7yrs in the jail, then do 5 yrs in patrol before I ever had the chance to try out for Narcs or SWAT. Huh? Was that a typo? No..... Although I had my Private Airplane before I got into LE, I didnt get into LE with the idea of becoming a pilot. I spent several years at my second agency, working patrol, Field Training Officer, Narcs and SWAT and generally having a great time doing it before I decided aviation was where I wanted to be. Problem was, that dept didnt have aviation. So I had to lateral to one that did, where I started back at the bottom of the food chain as a patrol deputy working midnights. Since, I have flown as a sworn TFO and sworn pilot for one, and then became a civilian pilot for the another agency and am now the civilian Chief Pilot for that dept and Im getting ready to put the badge back on after a 18 months as a civilian.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting into law enforcement with the desire to make it to the air unit. You are no different than the guy who joins wanting to be a K9 handler, Homicide Detective or SWAT member. For them, their goals may never pan out either. The difference is that as a pilot, you have options outside of law enforcement to achieve your goals. If your goal is to fly, then trying to go the LE route may be a long road that never gets you to your goal. Or you could end up like hundreds of other LE pilots nationwide, civilian, sworn, civilian to sworn, sworn to civilian (yes it happens) who go to work and chase bad guys in a flying patrol car. They key is knowing the facts about how people make it into the unit you want to fly for and deciding how long you are willing to invest before you may have to accept that it didn't work. By then you are older, making good money... probably married with kids and a house? Is your significant other going to "allow" you to drop it all so you can go be an entry level CFI while she gets her new EBT card hot off the press?

 

Well good grief Pig.... great info but what would you do looking back in your infinite wisdom as both a pilot and a gun totting law man? Well Im glad you asked. If I was a guy or girl who wanted to fly in LE, but flying was my ultimate passion, heres what I would do.

Stay in the civilian market, gain experience, do all the regular pilot things. CFI, GOM, Tours, maybe some EMS, Utility or Fire or wherever your career takes you. Make an attempt to become a Reserve Officer or Deputy Sheriff somewhere if you can, and while doing all of that, not screw up your background with stupid stuff. Then pursue one of the many external hired LE pilot positions that are regularly posted. Or if you get brave, take a brief hiatus from flying full time, take your 3000hrs and go apply to an agency as a street cop, and here is an important detail.. for an agency that has an air unit, and see if anything works out for you. How long you decide to invest into waiting is up to you. Its going to take a few years. But guess what? Its going to take you a few years by becoming a cop and hoping you can get in too. The difference is, if it never pans out, at least you are still a working pilot instead of being a pissed off cop who kicks their dog, drowns their sorrows in alcohol and women and curses every time the agencies brand new AStar flies over.

 

Sorry.... this is what you people get when Im stuck at the hangar waiting for a storm to pass. You know us LE pilots.... socked in IFR conditions is a single cloud at 5000'.

Edited by Flying Pig
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i finally managed to get thru to the chief pilot at the philly air unit over the phone, i had written down a list of questions before hand, based off of what i have heard on this thread. it was a very knowledgeable phone call and i gotta owe that to everybody's posts.

 

he told me i asked good questions at the end of the call...

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We had a guy interview, we all pulled for him, he had all the makings of a great TFO. Had his private RW cert. He got in and on his first flight as a TFO it was beyond bad. After 6 weeks of not being able to even marginally make decisions as a TFO he was dropped from training. Back on the street he's as solid as ever. Another nonpilot TFO we had couldn't handle continuous tight orbits on binos or on NVGs staring at a FLIR monitor. Dropped out on their own. Another deputy we had who wanted to end up in aviation had his CFII RW failed street FTO and was let go. Last I heard he went the CFI route and is now flying tours. Glad that paths worked for him because he would have just gotten his partner killed as a street cop.

 

Some reasons TFOs don't make it? Personality clashes, unable to process information faster than the helicopter can fly to a call, getting to a call and unable to process the relevant information needed by the ground cops. If you get a bad rep as a TFO on training, you are starting with the deck already stacked. If you get selected as a TFO with a shaky street reputation, you'll get no slack. It's a bad day if the helicopter gets cancelled responding to a call because of

the TFOs reputation

Edited by Flying Pig
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I actually did a ride along last Monday, it was in a pretty diverse district, most parts ghetto but some parts going thru the gentrification process.

 

I asked the officer to respond to priority 1's and we kept busy for about 4 hours straight, call after call, it went by so fast.

 

It was so much fun for me as a ride along, but I wonder now what it is like for the officer?

 

Could I handle the job description? I think so, but no way to tell yet.

 

 

 

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As a ride along its fun. Every time Ive been assigned a rider that always want to go out and tear it up. I tell them we can jump some calls at my discretion, but Im not going to bury myself with excess work or expose myself. Usually the issue is that after a couple hot calls, you end up buried in reports. And in my dept, they have to be done by the end of shift. So the ride along could end up spending the next 5hrs sitting behind the local grocery store backed up to the wall watching me type on my computer.

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