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A WOFT View From the Top


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#1 Guest_Stearmann4_*

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 04:29

Perspective Army Aviators,

Out of shear curiosity during my deployment to Afghanistan, I started reading through the topics and questions regarding becoming a successful WOFT Applicant. I've screened and endorsed dozens of successful applicants and discouraged just as many. Here's a short list of successful attributes I and my fellow WOs looked for when interviewing.

The caveat is I speak only of active duty, and inter-service applicants. The Guard and Reserves do things a little different but no less thorough.

Getting Started: I get stopped and sharp-shot periodically, even in the chow hall with "What do I have to do to be a pilot?" The answer is much longer than can be explained in one sitting. I realize you have to start somewhere, but in the era of the internet, there's absolutely no piece of information you can't find on your own. As some others have stated, if you don't have the intiative to at least familiarize yourself with the prerequisites, I'm not going to spoon feed them to you. I have also had applicants show up for an interview asking more basic questions than I asked them. If you went for a corporate interview for a potential six-figure job, knowing nothing of what the company did, you'd be shown the door.

Recruiters: I know most recruiters are less than helpful for WOC applicants, as they get nothing out assisting you with your packet. That said, you can complete most of the process without their assistance. During the process you only need to work with them to take the ASVAB/AFAST,flight physical, and obtain the correct digital forms. Also, being proactive and persistant is in your best interest. Do not expect them to walk you through the process. Some will, most won't. You can't reasonably expect an E-6 infantryman recruiter to be able to help you become an aviator, so don't rely on him to. With the resources available online, you can conceivably come up with a plan and guide the recruiter through what you need to do.

My recommendation is not to make the recruiter your first stop. Every form and link you might intially need is at the warrant officer recruiting websitehttp://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/index.htm. next, I would surf www.kiowapilots.com, but tread lightly, most of us on the site are senior warrants, and a good number are IPs at Rucker. However, they have a great collection of WOC/flight school information. www.aptap.org is another Army Aviator centric site, although tailored more for current aviators. Again,it's filled with crusty, knowleagble warrants, lurk quietly.

Like everywhere else in life, networking is the key. There's nothing that says you can't respectfully request assistance from one of the WOs you talk to via forums to assist you in taking the AFAST, interview, etc. I've had a few applicants I knew only via email, travel several states to come interview. Although it was several years ago, I travelled from CA to VA for 2 days to get a LOR from a CW5 that made my application a slam dunk. Persistance, professionalism, and intiative will pay you back ten-fold. Find the nearest Army Airfield. I guarantee if you act professionally, just about any WO will take the time to talk to you and help you with the process.

Ft Rucker: I'm fresh off a briefing from the Aviation Branch Warrant Officer (head CW5). It was only about 5 years ago, that the Army couldn't get enough WOCs through the doors. From the start of WOC school until being winged, it wasn't uncommon to be in and out in 13 months. Now, Flight School 21 is bogging down the system created long waiting times for Primary to start, and in between each phase. The average is 2 years now, which in turn has forced USAREC to restrict the acceptance process. This is accomplished by enforcing a minimum cut-off score for AFAST, PFTs and board evaluations. The cut-off is known only to the selection board, but it fluctuates based on how many WOs they need in a particular FY. All other things being equal, if you don't score well on your PFT, ASVAB, and AFAST it very well might be the key discriminator. Don't get frustrated, everything in the military is cyclical. 3 years ago, you had to be half blind to not get accepted, now you have to be rated in the Space Shuttle to competitive, in another year or two it will ebb the other direction.

AFAST/PFT: Many variables will be beyond your control; your eye sight, needs of the Army, not having the resouces to pay for flight training, the opinions of the board, etc. However, there is no excuse for not mastering the PFT and AFAST. These are well within your scope of influence. You don't have to know anything about flight, memorize the Arco AFAST Study Guide and you will get at least a 120 on the test. The PFT is no secret, plan and train accordingly to get a 300. If you master these two items, you've eliminated in your favor, any discriminators the board members may use to pick one packet over another. "I'm just not a good runner" doesn't cut it.

Also, quantative evidence of demonstrated leadership and being well-rounded speaks volumes to an interviewing officer. While civilian flight time is nice, unless you actually have a license and a couple of hundred hours, it doesn't mean much. Save your money and take more college classes. After instruments everyone, even the previously rated pilots all fly about the same. The Army teaches you everything you need to know. I had several hundred hours in airplanes and other than talking on the radios and making ground school easy, it didn't significantly change the course of my career.

Networking: Lastly, I've had several aspiring WOCs contact me via PM with such endearing greetings such as "hey", and "Dude", using incomplete sentences, and asking questions without so much as leaving their name or email address to respond. Nobody expects 'Sir", etc, my first name is fine, but if you aren't able to type a coherent, professional letter (email) using correct grammar, spelling and composition without using texting short hand, you will get an equally curt response. I can say this will most likely be the case for most any officer you ask for help. Remember that written correspondence is often the first impression you make. Unfortunately there's undoubtedly been a few outstanding and qualified candidates who never made it past an email because they wrote like they were texting buddies at school.

I do not have to personally know you to write an outstanding letter of recommendation. However, a face to face meeting is usually required. I don't know of anyone who will write a letter via phone interview unless the appliant can personally be vouched for by a friend, etc. A professional resume, prefaced by email or calls and showing up for the interview in the same attire you would interview in for a corporate position will result in you leaving with a winner in your hand. Most of us in the WO Corps are genuinely interested in helping those who will strengthen Army Aviation, and discouraging those who won't. It benefits us all to have good pilots sitting next to us. I have on occasion, had applicants not show on time, get frustrated when I will not help them study for the AFAST, or they choose to skip their interview entirely, but still want a letter. With that guidance, I have yet to have a sincere applicant not get accepted.

Good luck,

Mike-

Edited by Stearmann4, 15 September 2010 - 17:44.

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#2 Lindsey

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 13:57

Sir,

Thank you very much for stepping in with this great information and guidance. I will use it well, and I am very sure others will also.

I'd just like to reiterate this statement because of how true it is:

Persistance, professionalism, and intiative will pay you back ten-fold.


Oh, and it has to be sincere. Sincere professionalism and sincere respect.

I'll try to get an admin to "sticky" this post.

Thanks again,
Lindsey
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#3 Apache_King

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 17:24

I do have a question about LOR's. Even though it is obvious that you will have to do most of the application process without a recruiter, would they be a good source for a LOR? In that i mean, would it be a good idea to let them know you are interested and constantly update them on your application status in order to show that you are more than determined to become an aviator?
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#4 Lindsey

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 18:49

I do have a question about LOR's. Even though it is obvious that you will have to do most of the application process without a recruiter, would they be a good source for a LOR? In that i mean, would it be a good idea to let them know you are interested and constantly update them on your application status in order to show that you are more than determined to become an aviator?


Wait. Are you asking if you can get a LOR from your recruiter? If so, no. Think about it. Of *course* your recruiter is going to say the sun shines out of your...you know, because his job is to get you in the Army.

And you don't have to do most of the application process without a recruiter. The point is, you cannot rely on your recruiter to do the work for you. These things are not the same, and not mutually exclusive. For example - it is up to YOU to find your Letters of Recommendation, not your recruiter. Keep him updated on your progress but don't expect him to track down a CW3 for you to get a LOR from. He needs to set your ASVAB and AFAST and MEPS dates. You can't do that without him. But make sure he does it. Don't be annoying, but be persistent. It is up to you to study for those tests - he cannot help you. If your recruiter, after all of that, does not set up your Flight Physical, then you can do it yourself. Give your recruiter a chance, though, especially if he is a good one.

Stearmann said:

During the process you only need to work with them to take the ASVAB/AFAST,flight physical, and obtain the correct digital forms. Also, being proactive and persistant is in your best interest. Do not expect them to walk you through the process.


He didn't say you had to go it alone. Make it clear to your recruiter that you want WOFT, do your research so he can't misguide you (on purpose or on accident), and be persistent, patient, and professional.
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#5 FutureCWO

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 23:14

Wait. Are you asking if you can get a LOR from your recruiter? If so, no. Think about it. Of *course* your recruiter is going to say the sun shines out of your...you know, because his job is to get you in the Army.

And you don't have to do most of the application process without a recruiter. The point is, you cannot rely on your recruiter to do the work for you. These things are not the same, and not mutually exclusive. For example - it is up to YOU to find your Letters of Recommendation, not your recruiter. Keep him updated on your progress but don't expect him to track down a CW3 for you to get a LOR from. He needs to set your ASVAB and AFAST and MEPS dates. You can't do that without him. But make sure he does it. Don't be annoying, but be persistent. It is up to you to study for those tests - he cannot help you. If your recruiter, after all of that, does not set up your Flight Physical, then you can do it yourself. Give your recruiter a chance, though, especially if he is a good one.

Stearmann said:



He didn't say you had to go it alone. Make it clear to your recruiter that you want WOFT, do your research so he can't misguide you (on purpose or on accident), and be persistent, patient, and professional.



Wow I'm really surprised out how freaking accurate this is, I followed allot of these rules steps ect. and got accepted (way before this post). If you want to make it into WOFT follow this guys advice, it will save allot of heart break. I thank God I had a recruiter who bent over backwards to get me through WOFT which is really impossible to find these days. Other than that it is all you and getting your crap squared away.


17 days hooah!!!
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#6 mrjibbs

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 23:01

Perspective Army Aviators,

Out of shear curiosity during my deployment to Afghanistan, I started reading through the topics and questions regarding becoming a successful WOFT Applicant. I've screened and endorsed dozens of successful applicants and discouraged just as many. Here's a short list of successful attributes I and my fellow WOs looked for when interviewing.

The caveat is I speak only of active duty, and inter-service applicants. The Guard and Reserves do things a little different but no less thorough.

Getting Started: I get stopped and sharp-shot periodically, even in the chow hall with "What do I have to do to be a pilot?" The answer is much longer than can be explained in one sitting. I realize you have to start somewhere, but in the era of the internet, there's absolutely no piece of information you can't find on your own. As some others have stated, if you don't have the intiative to at least familiarize yourself with the prerequisites, I'm not going to spoon feed them to you. I have also had applicants show up for an interview asking more basic questions than I asked them. If you went for a corporate interview for a potential six-figure job, knowing nothing of what the company did, you'd be shown the door.

Recruiters: I know most recruiters are less than helpful for WOC applicants, as they get nothing out assisting you with your packet. That said, you can complete most of the process without their assistance. During the process you only need to work with them to take the ASVAB/AFAST,flight physical, and obtain the correct digital forms. Also, being proactive and persistant is in your best interest. Do not expect them to walk you through the process. Some will, most won't. You can't reasonably expect an E-6 infantryman recruiter to be able to help you become an aviator, so don't rely on him to. With the resources available online, you can conceivably come up with a plan and guide the recruiter through what you need to do.

My recommendation is not to make the recruiter your first stop. Every form and link you might intially need is at the warrant officer recruiting websitehttp://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/index.htm. next, I would surf www.kiowapilots.com, but tread lightly, most of us on the site are senior warrants, and a good number are IPs at Rucker. However, they have a great collection of WOC/flight school information. www.aptap.org is another Army Aviator centric site, although tailored more for current aviators. Again,it's filled with crusty, knowleagble warrants, lurk quietly.

Like everywhere else in life, networking is the key. There's nothing that says you can't respectfully request assistance from one of the WOs you talk to via forums to assist you in taking the AFAST, interview, etc. I've had a few applicants I knew only via email, travel several states to come interview. Although it was several years ago, I travelled from CA to VA for 2 days to get a LOR from a CW5 that made my application a slam dunk. Persistance, professionalism, and intiative will pay you back ten-fold. Find the nearest Army Airfield. I guarantee if you act professionally, just about any WO will take the time to talk to you and help you with the process.

Ft Rucker: I'm fresh off a briefing from the Aviation Branch Warrant Officer (head CW5). It was only about 5 years ago, that the Army couldn't get enough WOCs through the doors. From the start of WOC school until being winged, it wasn't uncommon to be in and out in 13 months. Now, Flight School 21 is bogging down the system created long waiting times for Primary to start, and in between each phase. The average is 2 years now, which in turn has forced USAREC to restrict the acceptance process. This is accomplished by enforcing a minimum cut-off score for AFAST, PFTs and board evaluations. The cut-off is known only to the selection board, but it fluctuates based on how many WOs they need in a particular FY. All other things being equal, if you don't score well on your PFT, ASVAB, and AFAST it very well might be the key discriminator. Don't get frustrated, everything in the military is cyclical. 3 years ago, you had to be half blind to not get accepted, now you have to be rated in the Space Shuttle to competitive, in another year or two it will ebb the other direction.

AFAST/PFT: Many variables will be beyond your control; your eye sight, needs of the Army, not having the resouces to pay for flight training, the opinions of the board, etc. However, there is no excuse for not mastering the PFT and AFAST. These are well within your scope of influence. You don't have to know anything about flight, memorize the Arco AFAST Study Guide and you will get at least a 120 on the test. The PFT is no secret, plan and train accordingly to get a 300. If you master these two items, you've eliminated in your favor, any discriminators the board members may use to pick one packet over another. "I'm just not a good runner" doesn't cut it.

Also, quantative evidence of demonstrated leadership and being well-rounded speaks volumes to an interviewing officer. While civilian flight time is nice, unless you actually have a license and a couple of hundred hours, it doesn't mean much. Save your money and take more college classes. After instruments everyone, even the previously rated pilots all fly about the same. The Army teaches you everything you need to know. I had several hundred hours in airplanes and other than talking on the radios and making ground school easy, it didn't significantly change the course of my career.

Networking: Lastly, I've had several aspiring WOCs contact me via PM with such endearing greetings such as "hey", and "Dude", using incomplete sentences, and asking questions without so much as leaving their name or email address to respond. Nobody expects 'Sir", etc, my first name is fine, but if you aren't able to type a coherent, professional letter (email) using correct grammar, spelling and composition without using texting short hand, you will get an equally curt response. I can say this will most likely be the case for most any officer you ask for help. Remember that written correspondence is often the first impression you make. Unfortunately there's undoubtedly been a few outstanding and qualified candidates who never made it past an email because they wrote like they were texting buddies at school.

I do not have to personally know you to write an outstanding letter of recommendation. However, a face to face meeting is usually required. I don't know of anyone who will write a letter via phone interview unless the appliant can personally be vouched for by a friend, etc. A professional resume, prefaced by email or calls and showing up for the interview in the same attire you would interview in for a corporate position will result in you leaving with a winner in your hand. Most of us in the WO Corps are genuinely interested in helping those who will strengthen Army Aviation, and discouraging those who won't. It benefits us all to have good pilots sitting next to us. I have on occasion, had applicants not show on time, get frustrated when I will not help them study for the AFAST, or they choose to skip their interview entirely, but still want a letter. With that guidance, I have yet to have a sincere applicant not get accepted.

Good luck,

Mike-


Mike,

I would like to send you a PM but am unable to find the option to do so. If you have some free time, would you please send me a message.

Thank You,
Jason
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#7 eaw913

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 20:12

Mike,

I am in the same position as Jason. I would greatly appreciate if you could send me a message as soon as you get some time.

Thanks,
Elliot

Edited by eaw913, 23 September 2010 - 20:13.

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#8 EvanE

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 17:30

Mike,

I have some questions I can't seem to get answered by my recruiter. A little background on my situation. I am a civilian applying for the Army WOFT program. I boarded in april and may 2010, qualified non select. We are fast approaching my next board, I am eligible for the December board. I have some specific questions about updating my packet. Can you please help me with these?

-Flight Physical taken 10/09. How long is this good for?
-Letter of Recommendations dated 10/09. Do these need to be updated?
-"Why I Want To Be an Army Aviator" essay dated 10/09. Do I need to re write the hand written and update the printed version?
-Will I need to appear before the battalion board again? or does my packet go straight to Ft. Rucker?
-According to http://www.usarec.ar...erequ/WOFT.html (updated 9/15/2010) if you are not selected on your 1st board your packet automatically rolls over for a 2nd board? My recruiter told me they have changed this policy in FY 2011.

I would greatly appreciate your help with these questions? Also, if there is anything that you can see that I have left out?

Thanks,
Evan

#9 droz88

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 15:36

Thanks for taking the time to write this. Great info!

#10 njsorrell1

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 20:29

OK, so I am interviewing this week with a CW5 and CW4 for LOR's. I also have a close friend/mentor who is a retired CW3 who flew for the 158th in Vietnam who agreed to write me one as well. The first two should be fairly in their court, but what should I be asking my friend to write in his LOR? What in particular should I email him and ask him to focus on?
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#11 t.o.n.y

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 20:48

Those who wrote LORs for me took what they found in the interviews and wrote their own, original letters based on the interview. I didn't provide them anything to include in the letter, other than answering all of their questions.

#12 yakfishr19

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 15:44

Is it true LORs expire after 3 months?

#13 akscott60

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 17:19

Is it true LORs expire after 3 months?


I had two of mine refreshed before I sent them in.

#14 njsorrell1

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 00:53

If your recruiter, after all of that, does not set up your Flight Physical, then you can do it yourself. Give your recruiter a chance, though, especially if he is a good one.


How would I set my own up? I have to get this done in the next 2 weeks or I'll miss the March board. My recruiter has been really helpful, but is taking a super long time to set this up.
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#15 Yamer

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:25

Mike, if you could please refer me to someone that is familiar with the guard route to get to woft. Im currently setting up my route through the guard as i have a family and two children now making active duty woft just not an option for me. My wife and I deided that by doing the guard i can hopefully stay local here in arizona as much as possible.

Ive read these forums up and down as well as a few other forums and there isnt much talk about the guard. One person said they knew someone that went to basic then ait for another mos then to wocs and woft all in a row for the guard. If i have a unit that wants me there as a pilot can i be streamlined into woft "sponsered" by that unit? The most common im hearing is that you join the guard and spend a year or so as a heli mechanic and then apply with ur packet. I can do that but ultimately i want to join to fly not turn wrenches. Just want to get as much info as i can before i start laying out my route. Thank you for your post also, its among the most informative here. Any more information for me or a referral to someone you know that can help would be greatly appreciated.

-Chad

P.s., sorry for any gramatical errors, im doing this from my phone.

Edited by Yamer, 08 June 2012 - 12:28.

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#16 t.o.n.y

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:18

Only have a few minutes, but just moved into blue phase at Benning, only a few weeks left till we're done here and less than a month till Rucker. Hope your packets are coming along and a few more have been selected! And hope not to ship in May, hot and humid now...

#17 d10

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:52

Hot and humid really isn't so bad for things like BCT and WOCS. Drill Sergeants and TACs are scared of causing heat injuries so they'll take it pretty easy on you. You also probably don't want to do SERE school in the winter. You'd be surprised how cold it can get in southern Alabama. I think the best time to start is March-May.

#18 akscott60

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 15:38

I started WOCS on 14 August after leaving Benning. What fun times. Our TACs smoked the sh*t out of us in the sun, and they just made us walk through the sprinklers to "cool off".

I would agree that SERE in the winter would suck. I went in May/June. It was just fine.

#19 t.o.n.y

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 18:09

About to get out of here and head to Rucker, can't wait!

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#20 akscott60

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 18:30

Ahh, enjoy WOCS. Be in the right uniform, in the right place, at the right time.




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