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Stadium TFRs


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#1 BigBear

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:15

Hey all,
Wondering if anyone has a good source for stadium TFRs. I do some work in the downtown San Diego area and I have difficulty getting good info on TFRs for the Chargers and Padres. I generally use runwayfinder.com for basic info, then 1-800-WX-BRIEF for a briefing including TFRs. The briefers have told me that they are not informed of the stadium TFRs. (Really?)
I've been finding them by calling KSAN tower or by looking up the team's schedules. Just wondering if anybody has a good tip for a one-stop-shop.

#2 edspilot

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:20

Try this link, I just posted.

Scroll down to the TFR section and click. There are 3 links. Might be the best location, at least it is the FAA's list. You can say, you checked their list.

http://av8.home.comcast.net/~av8/




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#3 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:14

This is a good question. Here is the scoop. These TFR's are published, kind of. What the FAA did was to write up a broad TFR stating under what conditions a TFR would go into efect and it does so automaticaly with out further notice. Here is the link to it.

In short it will cover an area 3nm and up to 3,000' of a stadium with a capacity of 30,000 or more where there is a regular or post season game of the MLB, NFL, NCAA Division one footbal game, NASCAR and Indi races taking place.

The TFR goes in effect one hour before scheduled start of the event up to one hour after the event is over.

That is all the FAA FDC Notam will tell you. It is up to the pilot to find out what stadiums are in the area they plan on flying in with a capacity of 30,000 or more. What I did was make a list of those stadiums, then went to the home page for the event schedule and printed it out. Then I simply checked it before flying. Works well.

Some aircraft are excluded from the NOTAM. Those such as Law Enforcement and EMS while in contact with ATC are approved. Aircraft in support of the event with an approved FAA waiver are also allowed.
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#4 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:17

Edspilot,

The FAA Notam list online and with FSS will not tell you TFRs specific to a particular stadium. It will just list the conditions in which a TFR will go in effect as I stated in my last post. It is then up to the pilot to figure out what stadiums that may affect and if those conditions are met then the TFR is in place with out any further notification.
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#5 Mungo5

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:21

http://maps.avnwx.com/ is pretty useful.

Drop down the 'Weather' menu, and choose 'Stadium TFRs'.

Quite accurate for the Patriots at Gillette here in Mass..

#6 edspilot

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:28

Here in Morgantown, WV the WVU football stadium is less than 1 mile from the airport. The towered airport also has scheduled airline service. As a matter of fact, if I get a "right downwind" I would be over the stadium parking lot just outside of the rim of the stadium.

The controllers are good about not assigning any "right downwinds" during the games. So far there has been no affect on using the airport during games. Wonder how that works?

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#7 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:46

It's a lot like the TFR around Disneyland. So long as the pilot is talking with ATC they will let you go in. Since it's a towered airport it is a non issue. If it was uncontrolled then you could have a problem.
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#8 BigBear

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 14:58

Thanks Guys.

- JD. That was the understanding that I had.

FAA- "Yeah, we have TFRs over stadiums, we just don't know when. You don't mind looking up the stadiums and teams in your area, and checking thier schedule for us, do you?"

Looks like the link Mungo posted is promising...

#9 Bootcamp

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:04

It's a lot like the TFR around Disneyland. So long as the pilot is talking with ATC they will let you go in. Since it's a towered airport it is a non issue. If it was uncontrolled then you could have a problem.


JDHelicopterPilot -
Are you sure about this? I mean, I'd like to believe it's true, because the stadiums in downtown Baltimore basically cover the entire downtown airspace, but I need a source to quote in case I get a spanking from the FAA/TSA.
Robert "Bootcamp" Schapiro, CFII, NREMT-P
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#10 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 13:33

Well, I have flown into the TFR at Disney Land and not under Lifeguard status. Approach cleared me. It was also brought up at a recent event in Los Angeles where they said that as long as the pilot was in contact with ATC and a code they would be allowed to enter it.

EDspilot's situation is a little different. As the TFR is located with-in tower controled airspace. That is proably not the case as much in Baltimore. There may also be a local agreement at the airport EDspilot uses. Further research required and I will get back to you.
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#11 Bootcamp

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 18:44

EDspilot's situation is a little different. As the TFR is located with-in tower controled airspace. That is proably not the case as much in Baltimore. There may also be a local agreement at the airport EDspilot uses. Further research required and I will get back to you.


Thanks JD. The TFR isn't within Class B surface area, but it's just outside of it. For this reason, I am usually talking and squawking with Potomac Approach on a bravo clearance. Establishing communication won't be an issue, I just want to make sure it's Kosher with communication established.
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#12 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:59

I am waiting on an e-mail from my contact at the FSDO. Will proably get a response today. Soon as I do I will let you know what he said.

JD
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#13 heli.pilot

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 10:25

The notam is referred to as a blanket notam - the FAA just tells you the parameters for the notam then it's up to you to find out about each game. I've spoken with KBFI tower about this, and they confirmed that so long as you are in contact with the tower you are good to go. Heading north over I-5 out of BFI takes you right next to Qwest field and Safeco field. I've been at many a ballgame at Safeco field and seen aircraft go right over head...
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#14 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 15:17

Exactly. However, the TFR text does not say this. So, while ATC allows pilots to transition these TFRs it actualy isn't allowed in the actual text of the TFR. No big deal I don't think. I've gone through many TFRs with no problem.
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#15 iChris

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 22:07

The notam is referred to as a blanket notam - the FAA just tells you the parameters for the notam then it's up to you to find out about each game. I've spoken with KBFI tower about this, and they confirmed that so long as you are in contact with the tower you are good to go. Heading north over I-5 out of BFI takes you right next to Qwest field and Safeco field. I've been at many a ballgame at Safeco field and seen aircraft go right over head...


That's correct, the NOTAM provides in part 2 that the restrictions do not apply to those aircraft authorized by and in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes. Normally if the stadium's 3NMR and 3,000' AGL zone intersects, underlies, or lies in a direct route to or from an airport {in class D, C, or B} ATC positive acknowledgement to your initial request maybe assumed as a form of authorization or approval.

However if the stadium is outside D, C, or B airspace or you're not on direct route to or from an airport, ATC advisory service alone may not meet the requirement of the exception.

"The receipt of traffic advisories from a Center or any other ATC facility does not relieve the pilot of the responsibilities of section 91.3. Advisory services such as flight following are furnished to VFR traffic as a courtesy when workloads permit. By providing this courtesy, the Center does not obligate itself to advise pilots operating under VFR of their geographic position nor of their obligations under section 91.130©(1) or any other sections of 14 CFR . However, the FAA does recognize that there could be circumstances that mitigate the violation depending on the actual contents of the two-way communication between the pilot and the Center".

Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations
http://www.faa.gov/a...ranbyinterp.doc


FDC 9/5151 FDC PART 1 OF 2 .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. SPORTING EVENTS. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. THIS NOTICE REPLACES FDC NOTAM 3/1862 DUE TO THE WAIVER WEBSITE CHANGE AND LANGUAGE CLARIFICATION.

THIS NOTICE MODIFIES FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS PREVIOUSLY ISSUED IN FDC NOTAM 3/1862 TO COMPLY WITH STATUTORY MANDATES DETAILED IN SECTION 352 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-7 AND AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103, THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'.

ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY VIOLATES THE RULES CONCERNING OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307.

PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, COMMENCING ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED TIME OF THE EVENT UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF THE EVENT.

ALL AIRCRAFT AND PARACHUTE OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 3 NMR UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000 FT AGL OF ANY STADIUM HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE PEOPLE WHERE EITHER A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS OCCURRING. THIS NOTAM ALSO APPLIES TO NASCAR SPRINT CUP, INDY CAR, END PART 1 OF 2

FDC 9/5151 FDC PART 2 OF 2 .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. SPORTING EVENTS. EFFECTIVE AND CHAMP SERIES RACES EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS.

FLIGHTS CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES OF ANY EVENT, STADIUM OR VENUE AND BROADCAST COVERAGE FOR THE BROADCAST RIGHTS HOLDER ARE AUTHORIZED WITH AN APPROVED WAIVER.

THE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS.

ALL PREVIOUSLY ISSUED WAIVERS TO FDC NOTAM 3/1862 REMAIN VALID UNTIL THE SPECIFIED END DATE BUT NOT TO EXCEED 90 DAYS FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS NOTAM. INFORMATION ABOUT WAIVER APPLICATIONS AND TSA SECURITY AUTHORIZATIONS CAN BE FOUND AT HTTP://WWW.TSA.GOV/W...CE_WAIVERS.SHTM (CASE SENSITIVE USE LOWER CASE ONLY) OR BY CALLING TSA AT 571-227-2071. INDIVIDUALS MAY SUBMIT A REQUEST FOR A FAA WAIVER AT HTTPS://WAIVER.C3.FAA.GOV. END PART 2 OF 2

http://www.faa.gov/a...Part1,Sec 3.cfm

Edited by iChris, 09 November 2010 - 22:22.

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Regards,

Chris

#16 Bootcamp

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:52

THE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS.


I appreciate the response iChris. So this begs the question of "omission vs. commission"...If I operate over a stadium (in my case, for the purpose of aerial advertisement), and am in contact with ATC, outside of controlled airspace, and neglect to inform the approach controller that I am looking down at a stadium of 30,000+ people, and he/she doesn't know that there is a game going on, but I continue to fly while in contact with ATC, am I at fault?

The reason I ask this question is because it seems that in several of my previous flights, ATC had no idea that there was a game going on, and was not exactly sure where on the radar scope the stadium lies. If I neglect to tell them, but maintain communication, am I going to get myself in trouble?
Robert "Bootcamp" Schapiro, CFII, NREMT-P
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#17 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:01

That clears it up. I had thought of the "operational" term to mean operational flights for the event going on and not general aircraft operations. Makes you wonder what the point is of the TFR.

I've never really had much trouble with TFR's. I have gone into Fire Fighting ones, Disneyland and the one we all love due to the POTUS. It's important if you are going to need to go into one you read the text of the TFR and be sure to follow the instructions. Always, call the controlling agency on the phone before leaving and in some cases you'll need to file a VFR flight plan. Pilots are still busting TFRs on a regular bases.
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#18 iChris

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 14:29

I appreciate the response iChris. So this begs the question of "omission vs. commission"...If I operate over a stadium (in my case, for the purpose of aerial advertisement), and am in contact with ATC, outside of controlled airspace, and neglect to inform the approach controller that I am looking down at a stadium of 30,000+ people, and he/she doesn't know that there is a game going on, but I continue to fly while in contact with ATC, am I at fault?

The reason I ask this question is because it seems that in several of my previous flights, ATC had no idea that there was a game going on, and was not exactly sure where on the radar scope the stadium lies. If I neglect to tell them, but maintain communication, am I going to get myself in trouble?


Your operation is far from being just a transition of the TFR, which I assume the original post was about. If youíre engaged in Aerial Advertising and plan to hang-out around the stadium you need a waiver. Donít assume ATC has authorized this type of advertising operation just because youíve established radio contact. If you tell ATC youíre conducting an aerial advertising flight inside an active TFR they would ask if you had a waiver, if not, they would ask you to clear the area.



TSA Waivers:

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/tsnm/general_aviation/programs_aw.shtm




Regards,

Chris

#19 JDHelicopterPilot

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 17:19

Chris is correct. If the operation is in support of the event then a waiver is needed since you will be hanging around.

I am still waiting on an offical definition of what they mean in the TFR by "Operation". I have always thought as long as the pilot is in contact with ATC they can transition or land in such a TFR. Some pilots have asked for clearification on what this term includes when it comes to aircraft operating in the TFR.
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#20 Bootcamp

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:28

Chris is correct. If the operation is in support of the event then a waiver is needed since you will be hanging around.

I am still waiting on an offical definition of what they mean in the TFR by "Operation". I have always thought as long as the pilot is in contact with ATC they can transition or land in such a TFR. Some pilots have asked for clearification on what this term includes when it comes to aircraft operating in the TFR.


Here's the problem...I have applied for a waiver on the TSA website several times. Each time, I get a call asking me "Who at the stadium has approved this flight?" My response is always the same, "Mr. TSA investigator, do you mean to tell me that these TFRs have nothing to do with national security? Do I no longer pose a threat to the well-being of this country if I have a permission slip from an arbitrary land-owner on the ground?" They then remind me that these TFRs have nothing to do with national security and that the TFRs are established because major league baseball and the NFL want to have a monopoly on advertisement over their stadium. Needless to say, they won't give me a waiver.
Robert "Bootcamp" Schapiro, CFII, NREMT-P
RMSchapiro@bootcamphelicopters.com
http://www.bootcamphelicopters.com
(301) 717-5455 Mobile




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