gary-mike Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 I personally think I would be more safety concious with my loved ones lives in my hands. Ok actually I know I would, I drive my car alot differently with them onboard. Plus if my wife was with me and I did anything stupid I would probably end up a missing the jewels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 I personally think I would be more safety concious with my loved ones lives in my hands.  This.  Most everyone is a little trepidacious of flying too, my flights with passengers are extra gentle. I also feel solo flying is harder and more dangerous, there's a comfort factor having someone with you. All the stupid, crazy joy ride fights I know of were duel with the CFI encouraging the student or "demonstrating" something. Most people with low hours are pretty cautious and fearful of messing up, but feel safer, and will do stupid things, with a CFI.  The time when someone is most likely to have an accident is between 300 and 1,000 hours. This is an airplane statistic but might apply to helicopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) Hey DP, You are only a Private pilot right? Do fly your aircraft solo??   Hey, Trans Lift.... do fly aircraft solo? does it matter?. . its his company, I'd say if he wants to fly solo, he can... are you just trying to stir the pot a bit? Edited December 5, 2010 by clay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) Yeah I fly solo everyday for usually about 4-6 hours doing external load. It doesn't matter and I'm not stirring the pot, just wondering if he has a double standard. If I was a student there and not allowed to fly on a PPL, I would wonder why he was?I understand that he has flown on different machines and all that, but why not go and get a commercial? Edited December 5, 2010 by Trans Lift 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) I'm not sure why you would wonder about a double standard? I dont think I read anywhere in his post that he DOESN'T allow private students to take his helicopters. I DID read that he is stringent on who he allows to take them, as should any small school. It makes sense.. you go tear his helicopter up, you put him out of business. I think your just trying to stir sh*t..... and if your worried about him having his commercial, I'm sure he'd be happily do it if you would forward a blank check with your signature over to him to fund it. Edited December 5, 2010 by clay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) He even said it was a good question. I was just wondering thats all. I shouldn't have said solo, I meant with passengers on board on his own.Why would I write him a check, he already has the hours by the sounds of things. Easy now, easy! Edited December 5, 2010 by Trans Lift 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) WOW! easy is right, that is a perfectly legit question. A question I thought myself. There seems to be a lot of reinventing the wheel in some cases. Some call it "stump the dummy" in order to milk the customer for more flight time by making him feel stupid because he doesn't know the answer to some obscure question off the top of his head. I guess the modern day version of "stump the dummy" is to "treat people like stupid children and blame it on safety and insurance" EVERY business takes the same risk when they send someone out for solo or private flight. At the end of the day it is their business and if that is how they want to run it that is fine, but don't come a preaching about how you rationalize that a FAA certified pilot is not good enough to rent. Again if you choose not to rent your aircraft fine, but don't make it out to be the pilot's fault because you are not willing to take a risk in a risky business. I'll say one more time, if you train a pilot to FAA standards and you are unwilling to let them rent then your standards suck in my opinion. Good day. Edited December 6, 2010 by Rogue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatpix Posted December 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 WOW! easy is right, that is a perfectly legit question. A question I thought myself. There seems to be a lot of reinventing the wheel in some cases. Some call it "stump the dummy" in order to milk the customer for more flight time by making him feel stupid because he doesn't know the answer to some obscure question off the top of his head. I guess the modern day version of "stump the dummy" is to "treat people like stupid children and blame it on safety and insurance" EVERY business takes the same risk when they send someone out for solo or private flight. At the end of the day it is their business and if that is how they want to run it that is fine, but don't come a preaching about how you rationalize that a FAA certified pilot is not good enough to rent. Again if you choose not to rent your aircraft fine, but don't make it out to be the pilot's fault because you are not willing to take a risk in a risky business. I'll say one more time, if you train a pilot to FAA standards and you are unwilling to let them rent then your standards suck in my opinion. Good day.   I'm the original poster and I don't think my question has been answered; let's see if someone can answer the question in the last sentence: My culture is that I've read about many accidents over the years with private pilots taking passengers. Solo flights under the supervision of a cfi are one thing but this is carrying another soul onboard that might not understand the lack of expeience a private pilot really has. The Pathfinder program for Robinson helicopters requires 100 hours and factory school before they allow this. I've never allowed it because I've read in the newspaper about a competing school at my airport allow a solo student to take a helicopter for a solo flight that ended in a jailbreak and crash. Also because I've read about a private pilot at that same (defunct) school take a passenger to smash and kill themselves on the road to the airport. These both were from the airport where my service center is at. I might add that at the neighboring airport two police CFI's smashed that helicopter practicing autos. I know I miss out on revenue from these private pilots that want to rent but I think they are better off (and a LOT safer) flying with a cfi working on advanced manuevers. Now, you might say that I'm self serving because I want them to go out and take boat pictures (I do), but they are in the care an control of a CFI and learning with each tankful. I think the safety numbers fall in my favor, and I wish to protect lives and equipment. Anyone have an data to back up either side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I am sure that the No. of safe flights by low time pilots with PAX far outweigh the No. of smoking holes left by low time pilots with PAX by a factor of 1000s.There will always be the " watch me" brigade, however you try & weed them out, had one last week towering take off to 200ft+ with 4 up, student at controls, People & buildings below.There are also people who have no fear, "steer clear"The majority want to live to a ripe old age, & bore their grand children with "when I flew Helicopters".Me I am relatively low hours & old, & having no wish to kill myself or friends, I hope to fly in a safe manner, But I expect you would not rent to me. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/500d_2006/DSCF0351.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 ALOT safer boatpix?  Like these guys? http://www.justnews.com/news/22981794/detail.html this was another successful safe flight: http://aircrashed.com/cause/cDFW08LA140.shtml 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think it's way more irresponsible to let an aircraft fly low level over water without floats than letting a private pilot fly with a passenger. But hey, it was revenue, right Tom? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helitop Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 I read all the replies to the original post in here and was quite intrigued by this topic. Firstly, I want to throw in the notion that even CPL's, CFI's and yes even ATP's bend up helicopters and cause death. They all do this when they are solo, and when they are carrying pax. Some things that were said by other members also got me thinking about boatpix; which I am now not a fan of at all. The boatpix training manual consists of what? Of having a student pilot ferry a helicopter somewhere to take pictures of boats and houses and then the CFI flies while the student takes pictures???? That can't be correct. If that's the case then I understand why you don't let your students rent your aircraft. Because they don't get the time to get the proper training in the aircraft. Please tell me I'm wrong. I really hope I am. I also have to agree that your sample of a guy wanting to perform a jail break and another one trying to commit suicide is not a sound judgement to be basing the actions of others off of. Not everyone wants to die or commit felonies. I have no data to back up the number of PPL's in accidents solo, with pax, or with a CFI. But, I know that all of them happen. If you want to know then start sifting through NTSB reports. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted December 11, 2010 Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 I flew with Boatpix a few years ago. I did all the flying while the Cfi took pictures and showed me how to position the aircraft. Â It was a lot of fun, and a 'relatively' cheap way to build some time, while also getting some experience(as opposed to just farting around the pattern, or local area)! Â By the way, congrats on making it all the way through these posts. This was a long one! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 My culture is that I've read about many accidents over the years with private pilots taking passengers. Solo flights under the supervision of a cfi are one thing but this is carrying another soul onboard that might not understand the lack of expeience a private pilot really has. The Pathfinder program for Robinson helicopters requires 100 hours and factory school before they allow this. I've never allowed it  Tom, your original post generated quite a bit of conversation. But this is off your own website.."The Private Pilot Program is intended for people who may be learning to fly as a hobby, personal business or who are planning to purchase their own aircraft. With your Private Pilot Certificate you are allowed to take family, friends and co-workers on board your aircraft or the aircraft you are renting while acting as Pilot in Command." So now I am really confused...help? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 My guess Goldy, is that it is another crafty use of words. We all know he is good at that. I presume it is just saying that you can take people up flying, but he neglects to tell people that he will not let you after giving him your money. Just in case you are going to rescue someone from jail. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 I'd have to agree. He quite specifically says "your aircraft or the aircraft you are renting." Since we know he won't rent to a PPL holder, that leaves finding someone who will rent to you, or buying your own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAR/AIM Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Yeah I fly solo everyday for usually about 4-6 hours doing external load. It doesn't matter and I'm not stirring the pot, just wondering if he has a double standard. If I was a student there and not allowed to fly on a PPL, I would wonder why he was?I understand that he has flown on different machines and all that, but why not go and get a commercial? i think you should mind your own business Trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skier Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 I understand where Boatpix is coming from. I have seen similar things in seaplanes, autogyros, weight-shift aircraft, and elsewhere in the helicopter world. That being said, I'm not a big fan of that. I was planning on doing helicopter training this past summer, but the only school nearby wouldn't rent after you got your license; as a result, I just found a fixed wing school and rented a plane for a bunch of hours. Â Personally, in my fixed wing flying, I have more hours with instructors than without instructors next to me. I've been a bit of a rating collector over the years and rather than fly with friends, I go learn something new. Unfortunately, I think this has harmed my flying ability to some extent. I know I don't have the confidence that I should have, and I think it is due to usually having an instructor there. I rarely fly with myself or passengers, but after I do my confidence jumps a bit. When you fly by yourself or with friends, you learn that you can actually do it yourself. It also makes you more aware of what is happening and solving a little problem like picking out the airport rests solely with you. Â I think not letting private pilots rent is actually harming the student's abilities and at the same time shouting to your students that you don't think they can really handle a helicopter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Personally, I wouldn't want to train anywhere that they didn't trust me to fly after PPL. I was just questioniong why Tom has one statement on the website and seems to make a contradictory statement on VR. I'm not out to thrash anyone, just wondered why the conflicting info was all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundwing Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Anyone have an data to back up either side? Even if the data showed that you were wrong, you have already made up your mind. I am not going to waste my time trying to find out. Me, I vote with my feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW139 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 hey, I gave junior a guaranteed job in an environment where no one is getting a job.  Wait.....don't you charge your "employees" $200/hr to fly? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pochari Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.113Link not working right so copy and paste into search engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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