Concealed Carry in Flight Suit

[delorean]

My question is. For a civilian pilot, traveling over state lines, how difficult would it be to fly with a pistol (in a carry on bag)? I just want to know how state and federal laws would view this.

 

First off, what is your state of residence? My state's CCW permit is good in 38 states, which is more than Florida, Utah, or Maine's permits. Used to be the other way around, but it's still cheaper to get one of those "non resident" permits. However, some state no longer honor non-resident permits--Florida only honors their permit or one from YOUR state of residence (e.g. a MO resident with a UT permit, cannot carry in FL; a MO resident with a MO or FL permit can carry in FL.)

 

You don't need a CCW to transport a gun in any state, just one to carry it on your person. For state's with the "Castle Doctrine", you can usually have a gun loaded in your "dwelling" which includes a hotel run, vehicle, tent, etc. WITHOUT a CCW license. Laws are different about vehicle carry without a CCW--some states it has to be concealed in the vehicle, some it has to in the open. Make sure you define what "vehicle" is.....in my state is says "motor vehicle", which means a bicycle doesn't count.

 

As far as just transporting the gun, unloaded will usually keep you safe in just about any state. Communist states like Illinois further requires that's it's fully enclosed in a case, disassembled, or locked in the trunk. And for now, handguns are still prohibited in Chicago and a few other northeast cities.

 

There is a federal "peaceable journey" law that protects you from all these BS local municipalities that have restrictive weapons laws. If you're passing through a town, state, county, a handgun, high capacity magazine, or "assualt rifle" ban does not apply as long as the gun is unloaded and you're engaged in travel. That being said, it's going to be up to you to defend yourself and get the gun back from the prosecutor if they seize it. Any place you are staying the night or is considered a "destination", you're responsible for knowing the laws.

 

You're under no obligation to tell anyone you have a weapon (in some states you must notify the officer on intial contact if CCW'ing, some just if asked, and others you don't even have to answer.) But if the gun is unloaded, in your bag, in the trunk.......it's none of their business and they have no right to search. Refusing to consent to a search is not probable cause. Read Arizona v. Gant when you get some time.

 

And checking on an airline is easy......just make sure you don't get a lay over, weather diversion, etc in Chicago, Newark, etc. where handguns are banned. Then you're SCREWED even though it's unplanned. There's a federal case on a Newark layover arrest right now.

 

www.hangunlaw.us is the best site for the laws in each state.

 

And Glock has a discount for commercial pilots. Call their main number in GA, and ask for the law enforcement side. Ask for the order sheets for the Homeland Defender discount. Find a FFL in your home state to the transfer (don't pay over $20.... fflfinder.com or gunbroker.com/ffl) Then order your Glock for $398....I'd pay the extra ~$70 for the Trijicon night sights, they're well worth it and half the price of what you would pay to get them installed afterward. For hotels, get yourself some Glaser Blue Dots or frangible ammo so you don't have to worry about the round going though walls.

 

Always remember that concealed means concealed.

 

All the aforementioned sounds like a pain in the butt, however, it's getting better. WI and IL are the last two states without CCW. WI will fall this year and IL will eventually. With last summer's Supreme court ruling, Chicago and all these other cities handgun bans will fall to after the dust settles on the appeals and lawsuits.

[klas]

......And for now, handguns are still prohibited in Chicago...

 

As you mentioned in your last para., handguns are not prohibited in Chgo anymore.

 

...or "assualt rifle" ban does not apply...

 

The 'assault rifle' ban is no longer in effect. It expired in 2004.

 

 

...And checking on an airline is easy......just make sure you don't get a lay over, weather diversion, etc in Chicago, Newark, etc. where handguns are banned...

 

Don't know about Newark, but the handgun ban in Chgo does not exist anymore. Also, even when there was a ban in Chgo, you can and always had been able to transport handguns through O'Hare. The only problem, however, was a tendency for them to disappear from your luggage due to the sticky fingers of the staff checking in your luggage.

 

... Chicago and all these other cities handgun bans will fall to after the dust settles on the appeals and lawsuits.

 

The ban has gone away - the only thing to settle in Chgo

is the extent of registration, but the ban is gone.

 

In summary - the ban is gone ..

Edited February 20, 2011 by klas

[delorean]

As you mentioned in your last para., handguns are not prohibited in Chgo anymore.

 

The 'assault rifle' ban is no longer in effect. It expired in 2004.

 

Don't know about Newark, but the handgun ban in Chgo does not exist anymore. Also, even when there was a ban in Chgo, you can and always had been able to transport handguns through O'Hare. The only problem, however, was a tendency for them to disappear from your luggage due to the sticky fingers of the staff checking in your luggage.

 

The ban has gone away - the only thing to settle in Chgo

is the extent of registration, but the ban is gone.

 

In summary - the ban is gone ..

 

 

There are still "assualt rifle" bans in effect......just not the nationwide one that expired. Cincinnati has one, California has one, New York State has one, New Jersey has one, Connecticut has one, as does Cook County, IL. All of which will [hopefully] go by the wayside.

 

The handgun ban in Chicago may be gone "per se", but are they going to allow unregistered handguns for non-residents? Probably not. The city of Las Vegas is a good example. They have a handgun registration law, but it did not apply if your stay was not "extended" (or some ambiguous word like that.) They never defined how long you you be in town with an unregistered gun. They finally defined it, and it was something like 30 or 45 days. The "interstate travel" or "peaceable journey" federal exception is usually 24 hrs max in the muni/county/state with the ban--but again, it's rarely defined.

 

Besides, I thought that the Supreme Court ruling wasn't an immediate reversal of the handgun ban. I thought all it did was overturn their ruling against the McDonald lawsuit, and now they had to wait until the appeal was over. Then they had time to get all their new rules in effect. Is that all over? I know Daley was trying to keep it quiet as possible, so I don't doubt if I missed something.

 

In regards to O'Hare, did you ever check a handgun in at O'Hare? You could connect through O'Hare with a checked handgun.........but if you got stranded there for weather or a cancelled flight and you got your luggage back, now you were in possession of an unregistered handgun in the city of Chicago--which is a felony. Same as if you were to drive in there to take a flight. "Assault" type rifles and high cap mags are also illegal in that city and county. Now you could go into ORD with a non-"assualt" rifle or shotgun to travel with. Correct me if I'm wrong......but in the past people have been arrested and had their handguns seized over this.

 

Here's the Newark, NJ story on the guy that got arrested after his flight was cancelled: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/18/traveling-mans-gun-arrest-appealed-supreme-court/

[klas]

...Besides, I thought that the Supreme Court ruling wasn't an immediate reversal of the handgun ban. I thought all it did was overturn their ruling against the McDonald lawsuit, and now they had to wait until the appeal was over. Then they had time to get all their new rules in effect. Is that all over? I know Daley was trying to keep it quiet as possible, so I don't doubt if I missed something.

 

Ban is over. Chgo instituted registration procedures and the current lawsuits against the City are challenging the extent of the registration process, as well as the ban against gun stores (one guy wants to open a store in the City to sell - well, not a store with guns, but a place to take orders and for people to come in and pick them up). We can, as a resident of Chgo, buy a handgun now. We have a certain amt of days in which to register it after the purchase.

 

...In regards to O'Hare, did you ever check a handgun in at O'Hare? You could connect through O'Hare with a checked handgun.........but if you got stranded there for weather or a cancelled flight and you got your luggage back, now you were in possession of an unregistered handgun in the city of Chicago--which is a felony. Same as if you were to drive in there to take a flight. "Assault" type rifles and high cap mags are also illegal in that city and county. Now you could go into ORD with a non-"assualt" rifle or shotgun to travel with. Correct me if I'm wrong......but in the past people have been arrested and had their handguns seized over this.

 

You can drive to O'Hare and check a gun, not just as a connecting flight. And if you are delayed, since O'Hare is really out in the 'Burbs even though in the City, you can get a hotel in the 'Burbs and not worry about being in the City if that is a fear.

Edited February 21, 2011 by klas

[Bootcamp]

As far as just transporting the gun, unloaded will usually keep you safe in just about any state.

 

How does this apply to us "general aviation types"? For example, if a pilot departs in a helicopter from PA (where he/she is allowed to carry) with a loaded pistol under the seat of the helicopter and lands in NJ, but the pistol remains in the helicopter, is that legal? If so, where is that line drawn? Can the pilot walk around on the tarmac with the pistol in his/her possession? What about into the FBO?

 

There is a federal "peaceable journey" law that protects you from all these BS local municipalities that have restrictive weapons laws.

 

Does this apply to ammunition? For example, NJ has a ban on hollow-point bullets. Is someone allowed to carry bullets thru NJ to a more freedom-loving state (e.g. NH)?

[MadbomberEOD]

How does this apply to us "general aviation types"? For example, if a pilot departs in a helicopter from PA (where he/she is allowed to carry) with a loaded pistol under the seat of the helicopter and lands in NJ, but the pistol remains in the helicopter, is that legal? If so, where is that line drawn? Can the pilot walk around on the tarmac with the pistol in his/her possession? What about into the FBO?

 

 

 

Does this apply to ammunition? For example, NJ has a ban on hollow-point bullets. Is someone allowed to carry bullets thru NJ to a more freedom-loving state (e.g. NH)?

 

No it wouldn't be legal. NJ doesn't accept PA CCW permits/license. Granted this is for an auto but seperation would still apply in aircraft. As far as TSA and firearms requirements, they are not allowing in "sterile" areas.

 

 

 

Per: http://www.carryconcealed.net/legal/

 

 

Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported. Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

 

 

And for your second question: Only New Jersey Police officers are allowed to carry hollow point.

 

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?97647-Question-for-NJ-officers-re-hollowpoint-ammunition

[delorean]

How does this apply to us "general aviation types"? For example, if a pilot departs in a helicopter from PA (where he/she is allowed to carry) with a loaded pistol under the seat of the helicopter and lands in NJ, but the pistol remains in the helicopter, is that legal? If so, where is that line drawn? Can the pilot walk around on the tarmac with the pistol in his/her possession? What about into the FBO?

 

Does this apply to ammunition? For example, NJ has a ban on hollow-point bullets. Is someone allowed to carry bullets thru NJ to a more freedom-loving state (e.g. NH)?

 

 

Depends.....it depends on what state law says about "vehicle" carry and if an aircraft falls under "vehicle." Like I said, in my state, it says "motor vehicle" which would include an aircraft.

 

But, again, there is a difference between transporting a firearm and CCW'ing a firearm. Same goes for handguns vs long guns. In every state this definition and the requirements can be different. In Missouri, ANYONE over the age of 21 can carry a loaded pistol [anywhere] in their car as long as they can legally possess it (e.g. not a felon.) Once you step out of the car onto property that is not your own, you need a permit to CCW (or you can open carry if permitted in that city/muni.) However, as you cross into Illinois, that gun has to be unloaded, and completely enclosed in a case (or disassembled, or inaccessable to pax.) Otherwise it's a felony.

 

In Nevada, you can transport an unloaded gun onto a public airport, but you cannot CCW a loaded gun onto one.

 

In your scenario about transporting a LOADED pistol into NJ, I would say no because, as far as I know, NJ does not honor anyone else's CCW permits. I highly doubt they have a castle doctine that allows vehicle carry. If it was unloaded, I don't know. You'd have to go through all the laws to see the different angles of your scenario. However, if you were not stopping in NJ for anything but fuel, meals, etc then you could pass through legally transporting an unloaded gun. You have to meet their state req's which I believe are the same as IL's (in a case, and/or preferably locked or disassembled and inaccessable to the occupants.) NJ may have further laws about guns on public airports--not just the "secured" areas that 121 ops are in.

 

I recommend spending some time on hangunlaw.us reading about the states you plan to fly into. If you're in the Northeast, it may not be easy. I have no idea what the rules are on hollow points and high-caps in NJ.