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Anyone Else out there fed up with not being able to start a career in Helicopter Aviation?


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I don't see any difference at all - both taking a loan to purchase a product, in hopes of a better life. Not the banks job to investigate the job market for loans they give, especially since so many students change their majors. Not the question of who is more foolish, because both were foolish.

 

Here's the difference:

 

Taking out a loan you cannot afford (especially 100%, negative amortized, no-doc, interest-only, etc.) to buy a house you cannot afford, is trying to live "beyond your means".

 

An educational loan is taken out to try and "better" those "means".

 

A lender that does not research the job market of a "job specific" educational loan, in order to ensure the borrower will be able to pay them, is asking for default!

 

A student who borrows money for "job specific" training without researching that specific job market, is asking for unemployment!

 

Yes, we were both foolish!

:lol:

 

 

...and no, banktrupcy will not get rid of a student loan. They will haunt you FOREVER!!! :o

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My understanding is that a bankruptcy won't discharge a student loan, and the student loan collectors have much, much more power than a bank.

 

In the past, you could get rid of most student loans by filing bankruptcy, but in 1998, the law changed, making it much more difficult to eliminate them in bankruptcy. Today, the only way to eliminate student loans is to get a “Hardship Discharge” (not easy to prove, but possible).

 

Section 523(a)(8) of Title 11 of the United States Code - Exceptions to Discharge provides that student loans are not dischargeable except where the student loans "impose and undue hardship" on you. You’ll have to prove, you’re at the poverty level and most likely never be able to repay.

 

To get a hardship discharge, you must be able to prove to the bankruptcy court that repaying student loans will impose an undue financial hardship on you and your family. The standard used to determine what constitutes an undue financial hardship varies from one jurisdiction to another. However, generally, to prove undue hardship, you must show:

 

1. That you will be unable to maintain a minimum standard of living based on your current income and expenses if you are required to repay your student loans;

 

2. That there are additional circumstances tending to indicate that your current financial situation will persist or likely persist for a significant portion of the repayment period; and

 

3. That you have made a good faith effort to repay your student loans.

 

If you are successful in proving that repaying your student loans would create an undue financial hardship, they will be discharged. In some instances, the court will discharge a portion of the student loans, leaving you responsible for the balance.

 

Even if you can’t get a hardship discharge, filing bankruptcy may still be a good option for you. If your student loan servicer is harassing you for payments you can’t afford, filing bankruptcy will temporarily stop those collection efforts.

 

As long as you are in bankruptcy, your student loan servicer cannot call you or write to you because the automatic stay prohibits all collection efforts by creditors for up to five (5) years. This will give you some breathing room to implement a plan to repay your student loans. Additionally, if you are able to eliminate other debts, such as credit cards and medical bills, by filing bankruptcy, you may find that you are in a better position to repay your student loans.

Edited by iChris
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My understanding is that a bankruptcy won't discharge a student loan, and the student loan collectors have much, much more power than a bank.

 

Yes, generally one cannot discharge student loans. However, there is one way to discharge - courts allow a discharge if one can prove the payment would cause 'undue hardship' - as Chris alluded to above. Hard process - I know of one student who took out student loans to become a lawyer. Couldn't pass bar, has I think it was like half a million in loans (because of late fees, interest, charges, etc...), and no job. Court still did not approve undue hardship. But is HAS been done.

 

Student loan collectors have just as much power as any other bill collectors. Their behavior is governed by law - no more or less than any other bill collector.

Edited by klas
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Here's the difference:

 

Taking out a loan you cannot afford (especially 100%, negative amortized, no-doc, interest-only, etc.) to buy a house you cannot afford, is trying to live "beyond your means".

 

An educational loan is taken out to try and "better" those "means".

 

If you cannot afford to pay, no difference. If you buy a house to 'live the american dream' and better your financial situation, no difference.

 

A lender that does not research the job market of a "job specific" educational loan, in order to ensure the borrower will be able to pay them, is asking for default!

 

I know of no bank that does such research before giving you a loan. Never have I ever been denied, or know of anyone being denied, for a student loan because the bank thinks the career choice is a poor choice. it is impossible for a number of reasons, among them one I have already mentioned - people change majors!

 

A student who borrows money for "job specific" training without researching that specific job market, is asking for unemployment!

 

That's the fault of the student alone.

 

 

.

..and no, banktrupcy will not get rid of a student loan. They will haunt you FOREVER!!! :o

 

Not entirely true - see my post above.

Edited by klas
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I find this conversation somewhat disturbing.

 

Let’s be clear. If a student pilot finances his flight training for certification and receives such certification, then he/she, in fact, has received the education he/she desired and therefore is responsible for said loan. After that, employment is an irrelevant factor of the loan obligation. To believe otherwise is just dumb and to advocate the avenues to relive that responsibility is shameful, at best….

 

We’re all adults here…. Aren’t we?

Edited by Spike
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What I had to do was just hang out at the flight school for about a year washing helicopters for free, and I finally was able to get my foot in door. It worked and I was next in line to instruct when a spot opened up. I'm broke now, but getting by. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

That's awesome. While this isn't a preferred route to get work you got in, you could have not washed helis for free for a year but after a year you might still be in the same spot. Congrats on getting the job after all that. You may be broke now but you're in. After that 1st job the hurdles are just a little smaller each time after that. Congrats on making it happen.

 

 

Tuna Boat flying sounds a bit interesting, but like with AG, and Cattle Mustering, its hard to find a company that is hiring.

 

I don't really understand why cattle mustering is considered an entry level position. I keep hear about people trying to get into these 3 instead of instructing but as far as I know there isn't anyone that has gotten into mustering. Yes they use the 22 but I don't think it should even be considered as an option unless you've grown up on the ranch you want to work at. Disclaimer to Butters: I'm not calling you out I'm just using your post.

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I don't really understand why cattle mustering is considered an entry level position. I keep hear about people trying to get into these 3 instead of instructing but as far as I know there isn't anyone that has gotten into mustering. Yes they use the 22 but I don't think it should even be considered as an option unless you've grown up on the ranch you want to work at. Disclaimer to Butters: I'm not calling you out I'm just using your post.

 

Mustering in the R22 is primarily an Austalian thing. When I looked into moving there, I was told that, they don't let their new pilots teach. Instead, their first job will be in either Mustering or Tours,...but yes, mustering as an entry-level job "over here",...probably ain't gonna happen.

 

I've had a number of people "over here" tell me that AG is a great alternative to teaching for us entry-level guys. However, you will have to work on the ground for a couple of years, or so, first, and get your CDL (class B + hazmat). Plus you will have to go "door-to-door" to find an operator who will hire you.

 

As for Tuna Boats? I've only read about the "Low-Hour Robbie Rangers" doing it, so I really have no idea how to get in, or if the stories are true or not,...but who knows,...they used to say that a 500hr pilot could get hired in the GOM!?

:)

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I find this conversation somewhat disturbing.

 

Let’s be clear. If a student pilot finances his flight training for certification and receives such certification, then he/she, in fact, has received the education he/she desired and therefore is responsible for said loan. After that, employment is an irrelevant factor of the loan obligation. To believe otherwise is just dumb and to advocate the avenues to relive that responsibility is shameful, at best….

 

We’re all adults here…. Aren’t we?

 

Ok, here are my thoughts,...and keep in mind, these thoughts are more a question, than a statement.

 

Nobody borrows money to become a pilot? They borrow it to become an "employed pilot"?

 

The only reason anyone goes beyond the Commercial, is because flight schools tell them that even though there is a shortage of pilots, you will have to get additional ratings, i.e. IR, CFI, CFII, before we will hire you. Then they tell you, we can get you a loan to pay for it all, that way you can get through quickly enough to take advantage of said "shortage"! (just like when they say, "we only hire CFIIs",...and of course, they use the more expensive R44 for their IR training,...but don't worry, the loan will cover that too).

 

In other words,...the only reason you spend more money to get an IR and CFII, is because the school knows it can make more money if they say they only hire CFIIs. Then they can make even more money if they use the R44! I mean,...why else get a rating you most likely will never use, and if you do, it will be so far out that you'll probably need more training, and in a different aircraft!?

 

Then, after graduation, this CFII finds himself using his newly purchased skills to flip burgers!

 

So, should he really be responsible for paying back a loan that was taken for "specific job training", that didn't provide that job in the end?

 

Should he sue the flight school for misleading him with lies about the job market?

 

You don't go to Wyotech to become a mechanic,...you go there to become an "employed mechanic". So, if after graduation you cannot find a job as one, do you have any rights for recourse?

 

Personally, I was making my payments, until I lost my job,...and if I ever find a way to stand on my own two feet again,...I will resume them. However, I refuse to live in a cardboard box, while working at McDonalds 70hrs a week, just to pay off a loan that didn't provide what it promised! (and yes, I know,...I'm just a lowly Commercial Pilots, but back during the "shortage", you didn't have to be a CFI (it was just another option),...at least that's what they led me to believe).

 

Anyway, these are the thoughts of Butters.

:)

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The only reason anyone goes beyond the Commercial, is because flight schools tell them that even though there is a shortage of pilots, you will have to get additional ratings, i.e. IR, CFI, CFII, before we will hire you. Then they tell you, we can get you a loan to pay for it all, that way you can get through quickly enough to take advantage of said "shortage"! (just like when they say, "we only hire CFIIs",...and of course, they use the more expensive R44 for their IR training,...but don't worry, the loan will cover that too).

 

You don't honestly believe that, do you? You think the reason why anyone gets an Instrument rating is because flight schools tell them to? Not only do most companies require it now due to the insurance companies requiring it, but it makes a good pilot an even better pilot having the skills necessary to operate an aircraft IFR solely on the use of instruments should the time arise. The reason why some flight schools will only hire CFII's is so they don't create a shortage of available instructors for specific training (in this case, IFR training.) As far as the R44 goes, I think the whole idea behind using it for IFR training is that it allows for a larger useful load as compared to the R22. I understand there have been a couple companies that have equipped their R22s for instrument training, but I'd be willing to bet they are very limited on how much fuel and pilot weight they can carry after all those IFR instruments have been installed.

 

In other words,...the only reason you spend more money to get an IR and CFII, is because the school knows it can make more money if they say they only hire CFIIs. Then they can make even more money if they use the R44! I mean,...why else get a rating you most likely will never use, and if you do, it will be so far out that you'll probably need more training, and in a different aircraft!?

 

Not all schools operate CFIIs. Some schools operate a combination of CFIs and CFIIs. Some operate solely CFI's.

 

And why else get an instrument rating one would most likely never use? This depends upon which types of job you acquire as a pilot over your career. The last 4 of 6 CFII instructors who left our flight school ended up down in the GOM as first commercial job PIC positions with ERA flying instrument equipped and certified aircraft. I'd say their instrument training and proficiency paid off for those guys. For having a first time commercial job, they are flying some really nice aircraft and getting a great paycheck for it. The ones who go the extra 20 miles, will be the ones who get the extra reward.

 

Then, after graduation, this CFII finds himself using his newly purchased skills to flip burgers!

 

This comes back to having done your research prior to beginning flight training. Should have found a reputable school that offered a steady flow of students and instructors; Would have made getting a job with them a bit easier.

 

So, should he really be responsible for paying back a loan that was taken for "specific job training", that didn't provide that job in the end?

 

A "job specific training" loan is just that; A training loan. It isn't a "job placement" loan. When has a loan ever guaranteed to do anything else, other than provide an individual with funds to accomplish a task? Well, a loan is used to pay for something; It paid for flight school. Task accomplished. It is up to the pilot after that to use his skills, attitude, and professionalism to acquire a job after the training is complete.

 

You don't go to Wyotech to become a mechanic,...you go there to become an "employed mechanic". So, if after graduation you cannot find a job as one, do you have any rights for recourse?

 

Wyotech doesn't guarantee job placement. They guarantee to provide you with the skills necessary to be an employed mechanic after training.

 

Personally, I was making my payments, until I lost my job,...and if I ever find a way to stand on my own two feet again,...I will resume them. However, I refuse to live in a cardboard box, while working at McDonalds 70hrs a week, just to pay off a loan that didn't provide what it promised! (and yes, I know,...I'm just a lowly Commercial Pilots, but back during the "shortage", you didn't have to be a CFI (it was just another option),...at least that's what they led me to believe).

 

That's your own fault if you thought your loan was going to guarantee you a job after training. And even at just a commercial rating, your chances of being employed as said pilot after training was going to be EXTREMELY slim. Times change. Requirements change. You have to work with the flow of things these days. It might have been a different story if you had worked for a helicopter company before, and you went off and got your commercial rating. They might have taken you back on as a part time pilot to work for them. Maybe, maybe not. But just with a commercial rating these days, the chances of being an employed pilot with low hours is relatively small.

 

I take it you didn't consider what recommendation I gave you in the thread of "Buying your own helicopter to do your training in"? You certainly never made a response after my recommendation, but I'm guessing you read the post. I stand by what I thought about your current situation and what I think you should do in these present times with your experience and ratings. Take it or leave it. It's not going to do you any good rambling on about how you didn't get a job and that everything in the industry works against you. You need to get off your ass, stop the everyday rants, and plug yourself back into the helicopter industry. My post is on the last page halfway towards the bottom http://helicopterfor...in/page__st__20

Edited by RagMan
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...It's not going to do you any good rambling on about how you didn't get a job and that everything in the industry works against you. You need to get off your ass, stop the everyday rants, and plug yourself back into the helicopter industry...

 

Sorry,...forgot the disclaimer.

 

Disclaimer:

 

This is not a complaint about my own inability to find work as a pilot! It is just my opinion based on my experiences,...your experience may differ.

 

Really now, if I were ranting, I would use this :angry: , not this :) .

 

Have a nice day!

:D

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I say again, life is about choices. You choose to believe who you want to believe and either reap the rewards, or suffer the consequences…. Gee, I think I’ve heard that somewhere before……

 

No matter what the goals are, failing to take the proper steps to achieve those goals will get you nowhere. You pay for an education and receive that education then the deal is complete. After that, it’s 1000% up to you to get a job. In aviation, you pay for training to gain Certification and if you receive that Certification, then you have received the services rendered and the deal is complete. This is regardless of the level of certification attained simply because some fail to make it past the Private level. Should a student pilot who failed a training program have recourse to default or sue just because his initial intentions were to become a pro? I think not…

 

It never has been a secret. In this industry, the best way to posture one’s self for entry level employment is to gain CFII certification. To simply achieve commercial certification is like a pre-med student only completing 6 years of an 8 year doctorate. Furthermore, if the pre-med student gets a student loan to become a doctor and fails to achieve the required education, then he is responsible to pay it back regardless of his employment status. It’s a conscious decision and to rationalize otherwise is pointless. Simply put, you can’t be a doctor without a doctorate degree. If you want to be a doctor, then you must finish the degree. And no, just because the regulations state you can fly for compensation or hire with a commercial certificate, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are employable. Commercial certification and employable are two different animals. Again, this is not a secret and if you choose to believe otherwise, then you only have yourself to blame. I didn’t make the rules or set the standards. They are what they are. Believe them, or not…..

 

Tuna boats or ag? These days, guess who is standing at the front of the line for these gigs. Guys with CFII’s…

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You went to the wrong school. The only school with a surplus of jobs is the one with the BOATPIX contract because all other schools are a pyramid. I guy called me to vent today that he is a cfii with an $80,000 education and no job. He says there are ten more like from where he came. i told him that i got a call last night from one of my pilots that spent $60,000 us and got hired to fly a turbine in the Grand Canyon. He wasn't even going to go to Heli Success but I encouraged him. He won the NVG class in the raffle and then earned a job the next day based upon his hours and experience.

 

When the caller today with the cfi and $80,000 spend went on an on about how great the CFII is I explained that I don't even look at that because I need 100 hours of boat photo. Boat Photo and a job always trumps a CFIII and no job. Always. We don't fly in clouds, rain or at night. But, I recommend a CFII and an IR because it puts money in my back pocket but it doesn't help get you a job. I'm an advertiser on this site since before 9/11 and we are www.helicopteracademy.com

 

I"m Tom McDermott at 561-346-2816. I'm also the President of BOATPIX.com and when this fellow started telling me he had heard negative things on these forums I hung up after telling him the negative things probably come from his own CFII's that were training him and the negative things never come from my own pilots as they have jobs and lives. Just saying.

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You went to the wrong school. The only school with a surplus of jobs is the one with the BOATPIX contract because all other schools are a pyramid. I guy called me to vent today that he is a cfii with an $80,000 education and no job. He says there are ten more like from where he came. i told him that i got a call last night from one of my pilots that spent $60,000 us and got hired to fly a turbine in the Grand Canyon. He wasn't even going to go to Heli Success but I encouraged him. He won the NVG class in the raffle and then earned a job the next day based upon his hours and experience.

 

When the caller today with the cfi and $80,000 spend went on an on about how great the CFII is I explained that I don't even look at that because I need 100 hours of boat photo. Boat Photo and a job always trumps a CFIII and no job. Always. We don't fly in clouds, rain or at night. But, I recommend a CFII and an IR because it puts money in my back pocket but it doesn't help get you a job. I'm an advertiser on this site since before 9/11 and we are www.helicopteracademy.com

 

I"m Tom McDermott at 561-346-2816. I'm also the President of BOATPIX.com and when this fellow started telling me he had heard negative things on these forums I hung up after telling him the negative things probably come from his own CFII's that were training him and the negative things never come from my own pilots as they have jobs and lives. Just saying.

 

 

 

Everytime I see you or one of your chronies post here it really makes me want to punch myself in my no-no area.

 

I am still waiting to hear what happens to your employed CFI's who finish their 100 hours or whatever crap it is that you promise them. Paying for a job is worse than receiving training at a school where they do more than fly around boats, regardless of the promise of employment.

 

 

Back on topic. One of the largest shortcomings of the aviation industry is the entitlement that pilots feel when they get their certs from a school. The bottom line is if the school is hiring, you better fight for that spot during your training. Professionalism, punctuality and ability are the only things that will guarantee you a job afterwards. However, the same cannot be said for ANY OTHER DEGREE ON THE PLANET. I have tons of college friends that are still looking for a job, while I was lucky enough to prove myself during my training with a potential employer. That alone is a step above the normal college route.

 

Since when do schools like ASU, MIT, Stanford guarantee employment afterwards? I have never heard of someone filing suit against Harvard because they didn't employ them or place them in their respective field after graduation. So why the hell do pilots feel like they are owed something by their flight school? If you took out a massive 70k+ loan without doing research, then quite frankly, you are retarded. Thats like me buying a house without looking at it, the location or knowing what city its even in.

 

You want to fly? Then you have to pay to get your certs. You want a job? Then you better damn well make yourself employable above all the others by getting that damn CFI/CFII. If you don't do that because you're afraid of teaching, then you don't deserve a job because, once again, you didn't do any research before getting into this industry.

 

The bottom line is the fools who believe everything a flight school tells them are the same people who get picked up by the ponzi scheme guys. Gullible people are always the easiest targets.

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There's one HUGE difference between College and Flight School. Colleges are not also the ONLY entry-level job available to graduates, Flight Schools are! They get people in by promising jobs, Colleges do not!

 

As for Boatpix,...well. I've never read a post by a former student saying he didn't get hired, or that after 100hrs he was canned, so,...who knows?

 

One thing is for sure, I see no difference between a Commercial Pilot buying hours in a Mariner for the promise of a job flying photos from them, and a Commercial Pilot who goes to a Flight School and buys the IR, CFI, and CFII ratings with the promise of a job Teaching afterwards!

 

:rolleyes:

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They get people in by promising jobs, Colleges do not!

 

One thing is for sure, I see no difference between a Commercial Pilot buying hours in a Mariner for the promise of a job flying photos from them, and a Commercial Pilot who goes to a Flight School and buys the IR, CFI, and CFII ratings with the promise of a job Teaching afterwards!

 

 

If a flight school promises a perspective student a job when making inquiries about their training program indicates a red flag situation. No legitimate flight school will promise a job upon graduation. Why? Simply because the perspective student is an unknown entity with no proven background or employment history. This should be common sense…

 

Furthermore, there is a HUGE difference between difference between a Commercial Pilot buying hours in a Mariner for the promise of a job flying photos from them, and a Commercial Pilot who goes to a Flight School and buys the IR, CFI, and CFII ratings with the promise of a job teaching afterwards. Why? I suggest you re-read the above paragraph…

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The Commercial certificate is like the College degree, it allows you to enter a certain "field". If the Commercial Pilot cannot find someone willing to hire him, he must seek further "job specific" training.

 

Boatpix sells Photo Pilot training.

P&S sells AG Pilot training.

Flight Schools sell Flight Instructor training.

 

If a Commercial Pilot has to go to the only place who will hire him (or help find him a job) and buy additional training to get that "specific" job, then he is buying a job! Flight Schools are no exception!

 

It seems to be common knowledge that if the school who trains you doesn't hire you, you have a "slim to none" chance at getting hired elsewhere. That sounds like buying a job to me!

 

If entry-level jobs existed for new Commercial Pilots, this would not be an issue. However, they don't, and Flight Schools have convinced everyone that the CFII is the natural pinnacle of a pilot's training, required for any job,...its not! Teaching is just one of the jobs a Commercial Pilot can do, it is not a prerequisite for the rest of them!

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The Commercial certificate is like the College degree, it allows you to enter a certain "field". If the Commercial Pilot cannot find someone willing to hire him, he must seek further "job specific" training.

 

Boatpix sells Photo Pilot training.

P&S sells AG Pilot training.

Flight Schools sell Flight Instructor training.

 

If a Commercial Pilot has to go to the only place who will hire him (or help find him a job) and buy additional training to get that "specific" job, then he is buying a job! Flight Schools are no exception!

 

It seems to be common knowledge that if the school who trains you doesn't hire you, you have a "slim to none" chance at getting hired elsewhere. That sounds like buying a job to me!

 

If entry-level jobs existed for new Commercial Pilots, this would not be an issue. However, they don't, and Flight Schools have convinced everyone that the CFII is the natural pinnacle of a pilot's training, required for any job,...its not! Teaching is just one of the jobs a Commercial Pilot can do, it is not a prerequisite for the rest of them!

 

 

If anyone has achieved a Commercial Helicopter Certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration by demonstrating the knowledge and skill tasks outlined by the Practical Test Standards, then that pilot pretty much has all he or she needs to fly a photo flight. To pay for any additional “specific” training beyond that is just stupid…

 

The ag stuff is slightly different, however, how many outfits offer this? Understand, an ag operator is in business to provide his customers with aerial application not specifically to “train” ag pilots. Why? Some flight school operators offer such training which they incorporate into the commercial phase of the program if the student so chooses to participate. Therefore, when the student graduates with the CFII, he or she has been introduced to the most common segments of the industry. The fact is, the most successful flight schools graduate their pilots with the most rounded flight experience in order to prepare them to step into ag, photo, instructing, whatever…. The flight school I attended for example, had an external load course, mountain course, ag course, CFI, CFII, turbine and anytime during your training you’d be tasked to conduct a simulated photo flight or transport cargo or pax into busy bravo airspace, or simulate a traffic watch op, or conduct gas and power op’s. Shoot, I even incorporated tuna boat op’s at the third school I taught at. This way, the CFII graduate could teach what they had been exposed to without even working a day in the particular sector….

 

Flight schools that graduate well rounded pilots are rewarded with a reputation of producing such pilots which turns into additional customers. How do you think Helicopter Adventures Inc. became Bristow Academy?

Edited by Spike
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Flight Schools sell Flight Instructor training.

 

They sell the training to become a flight instructor, not for you to buy a job, but for you to get that rating. You can't teach without it, so of course you will have to do the course to get a job as a flight instructor. So what you said for this one doesn't quite add up. It is not the same as paying for 100 hours of flight time to fly a photo contract or some other BS.

 

Most schools will hire people they train first but I know more than a handful of schools that hire people from elsewhere too. I have a lot of friends working in schools that they didn't train at. So the "slim to none" comment doesn't quite work there either.

 

Flight instructing may no be a prerequisite but you have to know the right people to get in without it. It is the main entry level job (in the USA anyway) and that won't change anytime soon.

 

Butters, you should get you're JAA CPL, Multi-engine IR and a visa for europe and you might get in to the North Sea flying a Puma. Most of he guys I know over there started in an SIC seat with less than 200 hours...that was post recession though!

Edited by Trans Lift
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I guess my views are a little biased about flight instruction, but being told for so many years, by so many operators that I'm not qualified to do ANYTHING just because I'm not a CFI, well,...can you blame me? :ph34r: ,... :D

 

Anyway, JAA CPL? I suppose that's possible, but multi-engine IR,...that's gotta cost a pretty penny? :huh:

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It sure does. The JAA CPL requires that you do 14 written exams also, to get your frozen ATP. The IR on its own costs about $50,000.

 

Would you hire someone coming in the door that didn't have a CFI, if the other candidates did? He would have to be pretty impressive! It is pretty much the standard and it will be very hard for anybody to compete in a job market without it. Actually, the CFII is the standard!

Edited by Trans Lift
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"You have to know the right people"???? No. Absolutely wrong.

The "right people" have to know you. And, you have to be in the "right place" at the "right time" with the "right qualifications" and "right attitude". I don't think I ever heard a chief pilot say he's been thru every resume on hand and do you know anybody that might fill the seat? Also never been asked if I have any idiot relatives to send to flight school, because I "know them" and wish they had cool jobs.

Visit the places you're interested in. Show up where there might be a job with qualifications and sell what you got and then you're somebody that'll be remembered, not a piece of paper in a pile of resumes. If there is a job, the qualified pilot, there in person at the time the seat needs to be filled, will get it before any resume-only guy will. Ever.

You'll spend a lot of time doing this, but you've spent a lot of time and money getting your training. You'll shake a lot of hands, too. You won't get every job you're qualified for, and you may not get dozens of jobs, but that's how you get A JOB if that's what you want.

 

Or you can sit around wondering why Carmen Electra never calls you.

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Also never been asked if I have any idiot relatives to send to flight school, because I "know them" and wish they had cool jobs.

 

Not quite what I was getting at.

 

If you know the right people, then that means they know you too. I was pretty much saying what you elaborated on.

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