Headsets and ear plugs?

[Gomer Pylot]

It's interesting that they don't provide any information at all on helicopters, which have much more high-frequency noise than airplanes. I've never been able to wear ANR headsets, because the cavities are all too small for my large ears. My ears are pressed inward by the headsets, and that causes lots of pain within a few minutes. I can't stand standard headsets either, and always built my own from the David Clark hearing protectors used on aircraft carriers, with very deep domes. After discovering the in-the-ear headsets I switched to them since they're much more comfortable and provide as much hearing protection. Now I have to wear a helmet, and use CEP in it. I did install ANR in one of my headsets, using the kit from Headsets, Inc, IIRC. It did reduce noise, but since my headset already had excellent passive suppression, and it was uncomfortable, I removed it. I haven't really tried production ANR headsets, but I don't believe they're designed for use in helicopters, certainly not turbine models. Lots of people do like them, though, and it's really a matter of personal preference.

[palmfish]

Before I bought the Bose A20, I did a 4-way in cockpit comparo between the Bose A20, Bose Aviation X, Lightspeed Zulu, and my Oregon Aero modified David Clark w/ CEP. The DC's tied with the Zulu and X ( overall NR was similar with the expected swings in high vs. low freq attenuation) in perceived noise attenuation. The A20 was noticeably quieter than all of them.

 

The airplane is a turbine (250 C20) modified Cessna 206.

 

I have started to notice my ears ringing more after flying the Cessna for longer stretches. I haven't decided if it's my imagination or not. All of my research and personal experience tells me the A20 is quiet, but I'm not certain there's isn't more going on yet. Everyone I know loves their Bose's, but I am much more noise averse than most everyone I know.

 

I don't fly the airplane nearly as much as the helicopter, so I haven't been able to reach a conclusion yet.

[palmfish]

I left the link in my quote but here is a link to the whole series of pages they have on how ANR works. http://www.lightspee...e-Reduction.htm

They have another tutorial and a FAQ at http://www.lightspee...-Technology.htm

 

Its too bad that in addition to showing typical plane sound levels/frequencies they don't show R22/44 or S300 sound levels/frequencies. I can't seem to find those anywhere on the web.

 

Thank you for the links! The Lightspeed article explains the subject more thoroughly and succinctly than anything I've ever read before.

 

As Gomer pointed out though, I wish there was more information regarding helicopter and turbine airplane noise.

 

Also, I noted that it didn't really discuss equal loudness contours - the phenomenon that lower frequency noise sounds quieter than high frequency noise when they are both the same volume. A good example of this is found in music reproduction - bass has punch and weight when the volume is turned up, but when you turn the volume down, the bass seems to disappear first - hence the "loudness" buttons on many stereos to boost low volume bass.

 

On a typical loudness contour, a 60 Hz noise with a SPL of 100 dB is perceived to be the same volume as a 1 kHz noise at 80 dB.

[SBuzzkill]

Might be a good article to write for a popular magazine

[aeroscout]

Might be a good article to write for a popular magazine

 

This whole thread would be a great reference.

[alfredm123]

Recently i bought a pair of ear plugs from safetydirect.Really they are very helpful to me and helped a lot for my insnomia.They are Disposable or reusable, easy-to-clean earplugs with plastic carrier and also Ideal for hardhats - can be worn with band under the

chin or behind the neck,If you want you can visit that website.Many varieties are there. I rellay enjoyed shopping online in that website www.safetydirect.ie

[mrkik]

I still haven't bought a headset since I started this post, but I can't stand using the flight schools headsets any longer. My budget is around $200.

 

Flight training magazine gave an excellent review of the Gulf Coast Avionics ANR headset. http://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/products/3583-gca-anr.aspx

 

It's cheap and they say it works well.

 

There is this controversy about whether ANR actually protects your hearing. Hearing protection is my main focus. I am thinking of emailing both bose and light speed (as mentioned above) to see if they have some good input on the issue. Meanwhile, if anyone has a good recommendation for a headset that will fit my budget, I am all ears.

 

One other issue I have is my sunglasses breaking the seal of the headset over my ears. I am trying to think of a solution to this, but I haven't come up with one yet. Anyone have a solution to that?

[Gomer Pylot]

I'm sure Bose and Lightspeed will have plenty of input concerning why you should buy their products, and not another brand.

 

My solution to the sunglass problem is in-the-ear headsets. For your budget, something like the Quiet Technologies HALO would be the closest match. The HALO gives more noise suppression across the spectrum than any domed headset, including ANR models. Finding a quality headset for $200 may be a problem, but you can try ebay and see what comes up. It can take awhile to find something affordable there, though.

[Pohi]

My company policy is double hearing protection. Earplugs plus headset. I have, but don't use the Lightspeed Zulu, I bought the dc ANR instead for work, the Lightspeed is for at home flights.

 

I had really bad luck with the dc ANR though, had to send them back 3 times in 6 months because they kept breaking. I'm going to get rid of the ANR and get a regular dc passive headset for work (because I have used them for several weeks and they work great with earplugs)

 

 

[eagle5]

With only $200 to spend it'll be tough. Find a passive headset with the highest NRR you can afford, and suppliment it with earplugs. As for the sunglass issue. Try shades with very thin arms, like Ray Ban Aviators!

 

If you're really serious about flying, I suggest you start saving up for a Zulu!

[Pohi]

If you're really serious about flying, I suggest you start saving up for a Zulu!

 

I did that and no regrets. It's only equal to a few hours flight time for an amazing heafset

[mrkik]

Perhaps I will ask to try one of my fellow pilot's zulu headsets for a flight.

 

Obviously, hearing is important to me, and if it means coming up with the $700+ for a zulu, then perhaps that is what I'll do.

 

One question about the Zulu. I hear Lightspeed makes good improvements on the new releases of their headsets. Can you confirm this, or would it be better to save the $200 and get a used one?

[nightsta1ker]

Im still fuzzy about this earplug thing. I can't hear the darn radio with the earplugs in. I have to crank the volume up all the way to understand it. Is there a particular type of earplug you guys are using? I only tried regular foamies.

[eagle5]

Mine are purple, rated at 32, got them at Walmart,...or Target I do have to turn the volume up all the way on the panel, but I can still turn my headset volume down a bit and still hear the radio. Perhaps you can try not sticking them in as deep? I don't put them in as far as they say because then they hurt my ears.

[palmfish]

CEP's are the way to go. They are affordable and very effective.

 

But if you're eating Ramen every night, then get these memory foam earplugs...

 

http://www.Shop3M.com/70070406304.html?WT.z_bynt=1

 

They are much softer and more comfortable than the yellow EAR plugs. I got a box of 200 pairs for less than $30. I keep it in the garage for when I use power tools or drive the convertible.

[12-7]

What is CEP and anyone have a link to a helmet or headset that has it?

 

Thanks !

[palmfish]

http://www.usaarl.army.mil/usaarl/files/brochures/CEP_Final.pdf

 

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/dept-293819/Cep-Hearing-Protection.html

 

http://www.cep-usa.com/current/

 

http://anr-headsets.com/Html_folder/CEP.html

[aeroscout]

CEP's can be custom built into any new helmet, and retrofitted into almost any other.

CEP' are hollow ear plugs that block ambient noise just like a solid foam earplug, while allowing amplified intercom to travel down the hollow portion to enable better hearing of wanted sounds while protecting you from the harmful unwanted sounds.

Edited July 6, 2012 by aeroscout

[CA_H60]

I've been using filtered earplugs: http://www.amazon.co...=vater earplugs under a flight helmet. I started off using CEP's, which were great in the cockpit but a pain when doing a pre-flight. They would constantly snag when the wire was dangling and they just aren't very good at drowning out noise by themselves.

Then i tried regular earplugs and transmission were acceptable but not terribly clear. I was skeptical of the filtered ear plugs but transmissions are much clearer and it's far easier to understand regular speech when talking outside the helicopter.

This way I always have earplugs in while on the flightline in case someone fires up a turbine next to me while i pre-flight, and i have double protection anytime I fly and transmission are perfectly clear.

[mrkik]

I have narrowed down my choices.

A DC H10-76 that was given to me. I need to buy an adapter and a new mic to convert it for civilian use. (Will cost me about $125 to get all the parts to convert it).

 

My next choice is a Lightspeed Zulu. Someone at my flight school has one for sale for $500.

 

My final choice is to use the Lightspeed Mach.1 (an in-ear headset). My boss gave me this one, but it is for fixed wing. It has been recommended that I get the custom ear molds if I do decide to use. By the time I got the adapter (fixed wing to heli) and custom ear molds, it would cost me about $270.

1. DC - $125 (Adding CEP would bring this to $250 or so)
   
2. Lightspeed Zulu - $500
   
3. Lightspeed Mach.1 - $270
   

I am leaning towards the Mach 1. My main concern is hearing protection. Many pilots I have talked to have mentioned their aviation induced hearing loss. I was looking for the NRR ratings for the lightspeed headsets but I couldn't find anything. Apparently a NRR of 30dB is half as quiet as a NRR of 20dB. My DC is rated at 24dB. If anyone has any input I would greatly appreciate it. Especially someone who has tried the lightspeed mach with custom ear molds. Also if you have a source that shows the NRR of the lightspeed headsets, that would be great help.

[CA_H60]

I only have experience with the DC, if you use that one, definitely double up on hearing protection. I don't know how loud the aircraft you're flying are but in larger turbine powered helo's it's just too loud for the DC's by themselves. Honestly even in a quieter helo I wouldn't risk it with just the DC's, your hearing is too valuable.

 

My .02 is always double on ear pro, even if you had a headset with NRR 70. If you fly a lot in your lifetime there are always going to be those times when you accidentally break the seal on your headset and if the sound level outside is 140dB+ (easy to exceed in the aviation world), you just experienced instant and permanent hearing loss, maybe not much but that's going to add up over the next 20-30+ years. Then there will be those times when you're out on the flightline and you haven't put your headset on yet and there's some loud, unexpected noise i.e. someone fires up next to you or comes in and lands next to you and it takes you 30 seconds to get to your bag and pull out your headset and get it on.

These things may not happen every day you fly and the exposure will probably be so short you won't even think about it, but you aren't protecting your hearing for next week you're protecting it for 20 years from now.

 

In short, if I were you I would stay away from in-ear headsets as they don't allow double hearing protection and I'd just go with the DC's and always double up (put your plugs in when you head out to the flightline even if it's not loud yet). Those DC's are great headsets and with double ear pro will serve you well and let you keep your hard earned $ for something else.

[Gomer Pylot]

30dB isn't half as quiet, it's twice as quiet. The decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear, and higher numbers mean more noise suppression. I tried a Mach 1, but preferred other in-the-ear models. It's certainly an acceptable headset, although I didn't try the custom molds, just the standard plugs they come with. The NRR for the Mach 1 will be whatever the earplugs or molds provide. Using standard foam plugs you can get >30dB. I don't know what the custom plugs will provide. The maximum hearing protection would be the DC model with CEPs installed, if you can afford that. IME, the in-the-ear headsets are adequate, though.

[jim_222]

Just watched this video, I thought this would be an appropriate place to post:

 

http://www.faa.gov/tv/?mediaId=454

 

mainly basic/introductory stuff, but still a pleasant watch (13:31 duration)

[palmfish]

In-ear plugs are a very personal thing. Unfortunately, the only way to find out what's best for you is trial and error. Some people can't stand having foam or silicone deep inside their ear canals, while others prefer it. Same with custom molds - many people swear by the fit and seal a custom mold provides and others find them uncomfortable. Some people love their ANR headsets and others prefer passive protection.

 

I recommend you start with the least expensive and intrusive option first - DC's with foam plugs underneath. If you aren't satisfied with the clarity and/or volume, then move up to CEP's. If you hate having foam DEEP in your ears, then try custom molds (they make them for CEP's even!). Even if you do eventually get an ANR headset, you'll always have that DC as a backup or for passengers.

 

NOTE: Inserting foam deep in your ears can be disconcerting and uncomfortable at first. It takes practice to do it properly and a few hours to get used to it. Stick with it - it's really worth it. I just sold my Bose Aviation A20 headset because I prefer CEPs to ANR.

[mrkik]

 

30dB isn't half as quiet, it's twice as quiet. The decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear, and higher numbers mean more noise suppression.

 

Thanks for the correction, that is what I meant.

 

I will go ahead and order the conversion parts for the DC, then I will try foam ear plugs, followed by filtered ear plugs, followed by CEP. If I am not happy with any of those options, I will go ahead and try the Mach.1 with custom ear molds. I am not bothered by having something in my ear.

 

I've been using filtered earplugs: http://www.amazon.co...=vater earplugs under a flight helmet. I started off using CEP's, which were great in the cockpit but a pain when doing a pre-flight. They would constantly snag when the wire was dangling and they just aren't very good at drowning out noise by themselves.

Then i tried regular earplugs and transmission were acceptable but not terribly clear. I was skeptical of the filtered ear plugs but transmissions are much clearer and it's far easier to understand regular speech when talking outside the helicopter.

This way I always have earplugs in while on the flightline in case someone fires up a turbine next to me while i pre-flight, and i have double protection anytime I fly and transmission are perfectly clear.

About the filtered ear plugs, are those the exact ones you have? If you have had luck with those, I will order them.