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Md 500 R22 R44 GI Bill Veterans Affairs VA School

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#1 revaequitas

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:29

Ok guys,

Here's my situation. Obviously I'm new here so here's my background. I'm 26 years old, a prior Marine and a homebred MV-22 Osprey guy. I've been an Airframe Mechanic on this AC since '05 and have work for Boeing and Dyncorp for this platform. I'm about tired of maintenance and ready to start flying!

I intend to use my GI Bill to attend the Community College of Baltimore County and do the ground school through them so I can use my GI Bill to its fullest. I have the option of going to Part 141 or 61 as long as I go through the school.

Here is where I need help:
I have narrowed it down to American Helicopters in Manassas, VA who have R22's, R44's and one Bell 206B III. On the other side I have Bussmann Aviation a.k.a. Heloflights apparently flying out of the same airport with an MD-500.

Now it's my understanding that I can go up to Commercial and I may be able to weasel my way into CFI but lets assume the former. If I could only go up to Commericial for "Free" which option would be the better choice? I would assume going with the MD since, in my opinion, it would be free Turbine hours but I guess not much PIC.

Well that's all I can think of folks, I'm coming off shift and ready to crash out. Thank you all for your help and support!

- Corey

#2 Flying Pig

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:58

I can guarantee the GI bill isnt going to authorize you to do your training in a 500. I would imagine they probably want close to $1000 an hour for it. Nor is the owner going to allow you to solo or do any solo xctrys in it. Youll be doing your stuff in the pistons.

#3 eagle5

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:11

If you're doing this with the intent of having a career flying, then go with American Helicopters! To become employable you'll need to become a CFI (more likely a CFII) with 200hrs for the R22/R44. Turbine hours are completely worthless until you have 1000-1500hrs total time, and even then you'll need 300-500hrs turbine!

Plus, that 1000hr requirement is PIC, so if you won't get much PIC out of the MD, its another reason not to do it!

#4 Fred0311

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 16:02

I'm starting a program the 22nd that will take me all the way to cfii on the 911 gi bill. Do some digging it's out there.

#5 revaequitas

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 16:35

Very well, thanks for the info guys, I will be persuing American Helicopters.

I'm starting a program the 22nd that will take me all the way to cfii on the 911 gi bill. Do some digging it's out there.


Where are you going? Just to get an idea of what you're using.

Corey

#6 Fred0311

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 23:02

I'm going to be attending upper limit aviation in salt lake city and getting an a.a.s. in aviation. Some people have negative things to say about them but from my research they appeared to be the best option if I wanted to be an employed pilot and use the gi bill to get all my ratings. Other schools I looked at where guidance in Phoenix but it sounded like there reputation was a little shady. I don't have anything to support that just what I came across... Palm beach helicopters in Florida but it didn't look like they had enough students to be able to hire many graduates. Cloud nine helicopters had ALOT of students but they catered to foreign students and couldn't seem to be bothered to help. ULA has bent over backwards to help and they cater to military. Now maybe they're just after my money but they have to keep my buisness so I doubt that attitude will change. I haven't trained with them yet to offer a good judgement on their program but so far I feel I made the right decision. There are a lot of other schools that you can get 100 percent to cfii but you'll have to dig through these forums to find them. Just the key is to be in a degree seeking program where the licenses are a requirement of the degree. Hope that helps.

#7 RagMan

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 00:45

Hasnt Upper Limit been the flight school with the 6 or so crashes in the last 6-7 years?.....

 


#8 revaequitas

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 01:40

Definitely helps man, thanks. The CCBC course has options to go all the way to CFII I believe, have to dig deeper into their site. I believe that's my only option near Pax River, I'm stuck here at Pax because of my job on the V-22 and unless I can make some serious dough on the side lol. Are you still in?

#9 ridethisbike

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:21

Rev: You can just call the school and get the info you need. Navigating the websites isn't always the easiest way to do it... especialy if that schools website is a jumble like I have seen before...

Another option is to call the flight school they go through. They'll tell you who you need to contact to get the info you need as well.

#10 revaequitas

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:44

Yeah, I've called them, it's just hard on my schedule right now. I work mids (11pm-730am) by the time I get home i'm drained.

I've actually been to American and took a tour when I first moved here a few months ago. They wanted me to fly but I chose not to, my thoughts were I've done an "Discoovery Flight" so I didn't feel like that again. Although it was a 300c vice a Robinson but I figured I'd have plenty of time to acquaint myself with the bird whether I liked it or not.

My biggest hurdle in the information gathering process is how many ratings can I get for "free" and what do I have to do to get there?

#11 revaequitas

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:19

Does anyone know of any additional "colleges" in MD that have a flight training program of some sort?

#12 Fred0311

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:10

I got out in th beggining of april. I actually moved out here even though there where two schools within driving distance of where I lived in FL. I didnt have a good job going for me there though but maybe moving would be an option if your schedule is gonna give you a problem as it is?

#13 Spike

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:49

Ok guys,

Here's my situation. Obviously I'm new here so here's my background. I'm 26 years old, a prior Marine and a homebred MV-22 Osprey guy. I've been an Airframe Mechanic on this AC since '05 and have work for Boeing and Dyncorp for this platform. I'm about tired of maintenance and ready to start flying!

I intend to use my GI Bill to attend the Community College of Baltimore County and do the ground school through them so I can use my GI Bill to its fullest. I have the option of going to Part 141 or 61 as long as I go through the school.

Here is where I need help:
I have narrowed it down to American Helicopters in Manassas, VA who have R22's, R44's and one Bell 206B III. On the other side I have Bussmann Aviation a.k.a. Heloflights apparently flying out of the same airport with an MD-500.

Now it's my understanding that I can go up to Commercial and I may be able to weasel my way into CFI but lets assume the former. If I could only go up to Commericial for "Free" which option would be the better choice? I would assume going with the MD since, in my opinion, it would be free Turbine hours but I guess not much PIC.

Well that's all I can think of folks, I'm coming off shift and ready to crash out. Thank you all for your help and support!

- Corey


Nothing is for free. You earned it and the taxpayer is paying for it. With that, I believe all Vets truly deserve the benefits you earn while serving this country so please don't get me wrong. However, what I fear is; flight schools will try to take advantage by giving you a line of BS in order to get their hands on the 911 gov money. That is, you'll train and graduate with no industry marketability. In short, an unemployable CFII left out to dry. And yes, it happens even without the guaranteed gov cash, so consider yourself forewarned.....

Therefore, with the above in mind, do your research in earnest. The most common helicopter industry entry level position is a CFII. With that, the most common flight training helicopter is the R22 (most common) and the S300. You'll need time in both of these machines while meeting the SFAR 73 requirement for the Robinson product. In short the final target should be 200 hours with a CFII and SFAR 73 qualified and S300 time. ANYONE telling you differently should be viewed as suspect.....

Lastly, PART 141 certification, accreditation, don't mean squat unless the school produces. Turbine time means less then squat.

Just trying to cover you're back.

Edited by Spike, 09 August 2012 - 10:52.

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#14 eagle5

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:02

You'll only "need" time in both thr R22 and S300 if the school who trains you doesn't hire you! One problem with getting time in both, is that if your school doesn't have both, you'll have to go elsewhere to get time in the other! I don't know this for fact, but if you're attending one school and you leave to get a rating elsewhere (to fly that other helicopter) then come back to finish, it MAY hurt your chances at being hired there?

In other words, they may give preference to those who spent all their money at THEIR school!?

I suppose the next question would be; Are there schools out there who use the R22, R44, and the S300, where you can go up to CFII,...for free?

#15 Spike

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:33

You'll only "need" time in both thr R22 and S300 if the school who trains you doesn't hire you! One problem with getting time in both, is that if your school doesn't have both, you'll have to go elsewhere to get time in the other! I don't know this for fact, but if you're attending one school and you leave to get a rating elsewhere (to fly that other helicopter) then come back to finish, it MAY hurt your chances at being hired there?

In other words, they may give preference to those who spent all their money at THEIR school!?

I suppose the next question would be; Are there schools out there who use the R22, R44, and the S300, where you can go up to CFII,...for free?


You don't need to get a "rating" in both. You just need "time" in both. Any flight school that has a problem with you getting time in another machine should be avoided. In fact, they should encourage it because its in the best interest of the student. Plus, if the school is "all that", they'll have both machines.....

Edited by Spike, 09 August 2012 - 11:34.


#16 eagle5

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 13:27

You don't need to get a "rating" in both. You just need "time" in both. Any flight school that has a problem with you getting time in another machine should be avoided. In fact, they should encourage it because its in the best interest of the student. Plus, if the school is "all that", they'll have both machines.....


True, you don't need a rating in both, but I would guess that you'd need a decent amount of time? Five hours in an S300 probably won't help much, so just how much time should someone get? You'd need 50hrs in the R22, and it seems a waste to fly that much dual without getting a rating! So I guess you're left with flying solo, just practicing for your commercial?

Don't forget, he's also looking for a school that will allow him to use his benefits. How many of those have both?,...and if he went somewhere else to just build time in one, would his benefits pay for it?

#17 Pohi

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 14:04

Short of finding a school that has both, if a person really wanted to, they could get a rating in one school with one airframe (that has the va benefits) then get another rating at another school in a different airframe and use their benefits there. Unless things have drastically changed since I used my va benefits, I don't think a person can just time build at a school and use benefits.

#18 superstallion6113

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 14:33

Short of finding a school that has both, if a person really wanted to, they could get a rating in one school with one airframe (that has the va benefits) then get another rating at another school in a different airframe and use their benefits there. Unless things have drastically changed since I used my va benefits, I don't think a person can just time build at a school and use benefits.


You can time build and still have the GI Bill pay for, kind off. You have to pay out of pocket for private, since the GI Bill will not pay for the pvt rating outside of a program that is not part of an accredited college program. Once you have your pvt rating, you pay out of pocket for subsequent ratings, once you pass and get that rating, the GI Bill will reimburse you for 50% of the costs, up to $10,000 per year. You'd wind up paying a bunch of money compared to a 141 program at a college, but I guess it's better than nothing.



To the original poster. I did 9 years in the Corps as a CH-53E flight line mechanic, full systems quality assurance rep, and enlisted aircrew. I loved the job, got out and worked for Valour LLC as a civilian phase mechanic at HMX-1(where I EASed from), got tired of phase, so moved on to Sikorsky Aircraft in NY to be a flightline QA inspector on Black Hawks and Sea Hawks for foreign military customers. Loved the Black Hawk, but was quickly getting tired of civilian helicopter maintenance, since it just wasn't the same as when i was in, not as exciting or fast paced. So I decided to quit my job and attend school full time and get it done in 6 full time semesters at Guidance Helicopters and Yavapai College. Someone posted earlier that they sounded shady, but had no supporting info. Shady is not the case with this school.

My advice is to research the school(s) through former students, current/former instructors, and people with direct experience with the school. If the school really wants your buisiness they will give you contacts to those people for you to talk to. You'll get to many people that have a he said she said school sounds shady, etc story, that has a high probability of being false information. Try not to listen so much to the schools recruiting person and more to former/current students/employees as much as possible. Like already mentioned, turbine time is useless to you for the most part, and is an un needed extra expense. Pick a school that you have better odds of getting hired. A school with 3 helicopters, for example, will make that much tougher.

I, like you, was looking for schools in my local area, but in the Finger Lakes region of NY state. Wasn't anything there that worked for me, so I picked a school I liked on the other side of the country, saved, then packed up and moved, and here I am now, having my private check ride tomorrow. It sucks not making $30 per hr anymore, but having no debt and the post 9/11 bill is getting me through just fine, along with the savings I had prior to quitting my job, since I planned for months to do this, almost a year. I'll graduate Dec '13. It'll be a rough 1 yr 11months but it's part of the sacrifice I'm willing to take to get into this industry.

#19 Fred0311

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 15:15

Superstallion I'm glad your having a good experience there but my information was from students about issues they had. I don't want to sound like I'm bad mouthing the school. They may have just been malcontents. Good luck on your training and fair winds.

#20 revaequitas

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:49

I didnt have a good job going for me there though but maybe moving would be an option if your schedule is gonna give you a problem as it is?

I think I'm kinda screwed in regard to moving, I got laid off from Boeing after we lost the contract on New River and moved up here in March so I'm thinking cash is a bit tight for another move now.

Therefore, with the above in mind, do your research in earnest. The most common helicopter industry entry level position is a CFII. With that, the most common flight training helicopter is the R22 (most common) and the S300. You'll need time in both of these machines while meeting the SFAR 73 requirement for the Robinson product. In short the final target should be 200 hours with a CFII and SFAR 73 qualified and S300 time. ANYONE telling you differently should be viewed as suspect.....

Lastly, PART 141 certification, accreditation, don't mean squat unless the school produces. Turbine time means less then squat.

Just trying to cover you're back.

Unfortunately there are only Robinsons and Bells around these parts with the exception of one MD but we know that is not an option now.

I suppose the next question would be; Are there schools out there who use the R22, R44, and the S300, where you can go up to CFII,...for free?

As I just said, I think the Schweizer is out of the question, though I like that little bird.

Short of finding a school that has both, if a person really wanted to, they could get a rating in one school with one airframe (that has the va benefits) then get another rating at another school in a different airframe and use their benefits there. Unless things have drastically changed since I used my va benefits, I don't think a person can just time build at a school and use benefits.

I'm not sure I follow the last sentance. I'm going to be going to CCBC, which has an Aviation Studies course http://www.ccbcmd.ed...t_training.html





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Md 500, R22, R44, GI Bill, Veterans Affairs, VA, School

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