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Becoming an R44 CFII

Flight training R44

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#1 eagle5

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:14

Aspiring career pilots. If you plan on doing all of your training, 0-CFII, in an R44, there are two questions you must answer first;

1. Who would be willing to hire (provided that my school doesn't, or goes out of business) a low hour CFII who can only teach in the R44?

2. How will I convince new students that paying almost twice as much for their training is a "good thing"? (remember, not all of your students will be career minded, some may just want a PPL)

If you can answer these two questions, then by all means, go ahead and do it!

#2 Carpenter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:23

East Coast Aero Club is already teaching exclusively in the R44, so you don't have to re-invent the Wheel. They are charging, I think, around $340/hr wet. Also, you can attract all ex-military students whose training is funded by uncle sam, then who cares, right? Why is America bankrupt?

Edited by Carpenter, 19 August 2012 - 19:04.


#3 superstallion6113

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 17:37

America certainly isn't bankrupt from me/us using a benefit I/we earned.
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#4 apiaguy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 18:13

what would be the difference in doing all your time in the 300 the enstrom or the 22? Who would hire a low time CFII who could only teach in one of those?

Besides cost.... (which depends on what you're paying for 44 time) what's the big deal? There are alot of 44's out there.

I have come to realize after many years that ALOT of people are not out for the cheapest option (or else robinson would not be the most popular training helicopter)

Edited by apiaguy, 16 August 2012 - 18:40.

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#5 rick1128

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 18:52

what would be the difference in doing all your time in the 300 the enstrom or the 22? Who would hire a low time CFII who could only teach in one of those?

Besides cost.... (which depends on what you're paying for 44 time) what's the big deal? There are alot of 44's out there.

I have come to realize after many years that ALOT of people are not out for the cheapest option (or else robinson would not be the most popular training helicopter)


Considering that the 300 and the Enstrom are much more expensive than the R22, wouldn't that statement about the Robinson popularity be incorrect?

Considering that a much larger percentage of flight schools use the R22 than just the R44, your chances of getting an instructor job would increase several fold by meeting the R22 SFAR CFI requirements. However, every year many instructors get hired with experience in only one helicopter. Having some time in other models will differentiate yourself when looking for a job. The amount of flight time will need to be a reasonably sufficient amount. I would say at least 25 hours.

#6 eagle5

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:02

what would be the difference in doing all your time in the 300 the enstrom or the 22? Who would hire a low time CFII who could only teach in one of those?


Most schools hire CFIs who can only teach in either the 22 or 300!

Edited by eagle5, 16 August 2012 - 20:13.


#7 Trans Lift

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:17

No other country gives ex-military benefits like over here so yeah, it is helping to bankrupt the country.

I was chatting with some marines at the hotel the other day and they were doing a cooking course at the culinary institute. To learn how to cook chicken or something I guess. They then went on to say how they get $50,000 worth of college when they get out after 4 years for free. Now thats a f*ckin joke if ever I heard of one.

Like I said, this country is unique in that regard. I was in the military, do you think there were benefits after, no. Did we care, no. I chose to do it, like most of the guys I know in the royal marines etc, chose to do it. It's just a job.

#8 superstallion6113

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:53

No other country gives ex-military benefits like over here so yeah, it is helping to bankrupt the country.

I was chatting with some marines at the hotel the other day and they were doing a cooking course at the culinary institute. To learn how to cook chicken or something I guess. They then went on to say how they get $50,000 worth of college when they get out after 4 years for free. Now thats a f*ckin joke if ever I heard of one.

Like I said, this country is unique in that regard. I was in the military, do you think there were benefits after, no. Did we care, no. I chose to do it, like most of the guys I know in the royal marines etc, chose to do it. It's just a job.


I'm not saying the benefits I'm using now are why I enlisted. I enlisted back in 2001 before there was a 9/11/01 or a 9/11 GI Bill. I loved my job, but was physically unfit to continue serving due to a repeated knee injury. Had that not happened I wouldn't even be in here right now, I'm still be on active duty, fixing the Big Iron.

We are spoiled rotten and I'll agree with you that we do get alot more expensive benefits here, and sure it may be at a bad time financially for our country, but I'd venture to say the special programs we have for the public are more to blame, the wasteful spending of our government, earmarks, etc are more to blame. I'm not here to start a political discussion so I'll stop there. If you think $50k is alot for their schooling, heck that's what 2 semesters cost for my schooling, out of the 6 I'll be attending, and I'll still have 14 moths of benefits left when I'm done.

Edited by superstallion6113, 16 August 2012 - 20:56.


#9 eagle5

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 21:26

This post was intended to make newbies think about what they are about to do, and that they should take everything a recruiter tells them with a grain of salt! So there's one more thing anyone who is Hell bent on doing ALL of their training in the R44 should do.

Get a list of all the flight schools in the country, and call them one by one and ask if they would ever hire a CFII who could ONLY fly/teach in the R44.

I'd be very interested in knowing how may say "yes"!

Edited by eagle5, 16 August 2012 - 21:27.


#10 apiaguy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 23:08

The Robinson comment was because even though the hourly costs are lower on the 22, the SFAR makes it MORE expensive from a student perspective...but no one seems to care much about this...only that " most schools use the 22"... So most students fly it to try to increase their odds of a CFI gig...

#11 eagle5

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 00:23

The Robinson comment was because even though the hourly costs are lower on the 22, the SFAR makes it MORE expensive from a student perspective...but no one seems to care much about this...only that " most schools use the 22"... So most students fly it to try to increase their odds of a CFI gig...


There was a post not too long ago from a 300 CFI who had graduated with around 170hrs, and was looking to build time in a 22 because he couldn't find a job, but this isn't a 22 vs. 300 debate, its an ALL R44 debate, and if you think the 22 is more expensive due to the SFAR, well...do the math on the 44!

The best way to prepare yourself is to get time in all three, however paying for more than 25hrs in the R44 is just a huge, unnecessary waste of money!

The 300 is not that much more to fly than the 22, and yes, with the 22 you have to fly 50 more hours, but that pales in comparison to the unnecessary cost of doing it all in the 44!

The facts are what they are. Most schools use the 22. A lot of schools use the 300. Many of those schools also have a 44. You want the best odds at finding work? Don't limit yourself to just one!

#12 johnnyb

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 23:10

Who on earth these days has that much cash to burn, us guys who have a passion for flying are supposed to be poor and desperate :D
Just kidding, I'm sure there are some of us out there with rich drug-cartel parents or has wifes with rich parents, dunno, personally don't know any rich pilots but I guess if you're not rich then you're dumb, you'd have to be to do all your training in a 44.
Since flying the 22 has additional requirements and are quite a bunch more challenging to fly...

But, might be ever so slightly off-topic here, but since it's kinda related I think it's a relevant question.
How many CFI's have any real luck when it comes to looking for jobs at schools other than where they trained at?
The impression I'm getting (from the school I'm at as well as speaking to other pilots who had gone past CFI to other flying jobs) is that most schools only hire their own CFI's.
Maybe that's an incentive for training from 0-CFII in a 44, if a particular school offer jobs to their own CFI's with only 44 experience, only reason I can come up with that makes kinda sense.
No, actually, still a dumb idea...
"You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back."

#13 superstallion6113

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 00:37

Who on earth these days has that much cash to burn, us guys who have a passion for flying are supposed to be poor and desperate :D
Just kidding, I'm sure there are some of us out there with rich drug-cartel parents or has wifes with rich parents, dunno, personally don't know any rich pilots but I guess if you're not rich then you're dumb, you'd have to be to do all your training in a 44.
Since flying the 22 has additional requirements and are quite a bunch more challenging to fly...

But, might be ever so slightly off-topic here, but since it's kinda related I think it's a relevant question.
How many CFI's have any real luck when it comes to looking for jobs at schools other than where they trained at?
The impression I'm getting (from the school I'm at as well as speaking to other pilots who had gone past CFI to other flying jobs) is that most schools only hire their own CFI's.
Maybe that's an incentive for training from 0-CFII in a 44, if a particular school offer jobs to their own CFI's with only 44 experience, only reason I can come up with that makes kinda sense.
No, actually, still a dumb idea...


I dont have the money to pay for my R44 flight training, but the VA does. Im certainly not stupid, and actually quite skilled enough to competently make the decision on my own to pursue my dream of getting my helicopter pilots license. Following MY dreams is certainly NEVER stupid. Glad you are happy with the choice YOU made.

#14 johnnyb

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 14:03

I dont have the money to pay for my R44 flight training, but the VA does. Im certainly not stupid, and actually quite skilled enough to competently make the decision on my own to pursue my dream of getting my helicopter pilots license. Following MY dreams is certainly NEVER stupid. Glad you are happy with the choice YOU made.


:angry:
First off, I didn't say you were stupid, there's a difference.
I said to going from 0-CFI(I) in a R44 is dumb and then I gave some reasons why I think it's dumb. You should have realized by now that it might not quite be the wisest of choices.
This is a public forum, there's value in everyone's opinion, take if for what it is, or leave it, it's really up to you.
PS: Opinions, that's what you're here for no?
"You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back."

#15 aeroscout

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 15:02

It's easy to unintentionally insult someone of the internet. Even easier to do it intentionally.

#16 superstallion6113

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 15:44

:angry:
First off, I didn't say you were stupid, there's a difference.
I said to going from 0-CFI(I) in a R44 is dumb and then I gave some reasons why I think it's dumb. You should have realized by now that it might not quite be the wisest of choices.
This is a public forum, there's value in everyone's opinion, take if for what it is, or leave it, it's really up to you.
PS: Opinions, that's what you're here for no?



And I quote,


personally don't know any rich pilots but I guess if you're not rich then you're dumb, you'd have to be to do all your training in a 44.




I realize it's not the wisest of decisions. Sorry if you took offense to my reply. I honestly thought you were calling someone like me dumb for choosing the R44 for my training, I have no other choice since it is the only aircraft option for me till I'm within the weight limit of the R22, which I'd love to be able to train in. I don't PLAN on staying in the 44, but it may happen if I can't drop enough weight fast enough. Sorry for the drama.

Edited by superstallion6113, 19 August 2012 - 15:46.


#17 Carpenter

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 19:11

America certainly isn't bankrupt from me/us using a benefit I/we earned.

Can you explain this to us? What have you done to "EARN" free flight training in the R44 for 0-CFII worth up to about $100K?

#18 Fred0311

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 19:17

I earned it by being treated like garbage for five years and spending seven months in hell. The post 911 gi bill was part of the benefits of the contract I signed. I held up my end the government needs to hold up its. You don't like it write your congressman and tell them to get rid of it for new enlisted. But I and many others have it in black and white and have a serious issue with people saying we didn't earn it when you have no idea what we went through to get it.
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#19 aeroscout

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 19:17

Can you explain this to us? What have you done to "EARN" free flight training in the R44 for 0-CFII worth up to about $100K?

Are you daft ? If I were you, I would delete your post. But that's just me.
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#20 superstallion6113

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:05

Can you explain this to us? What have you done to "EARN" free flight training in the R44 for 0-CFII worth up to about $100K?


I fought for 9 years for your right to say something so selfish and stupid.

Edited by superstallion6113, 19 August 2012 - 20:14.

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