Jump to content

Embry Riddle or College of the Sequois


Recommended Posts

More schools are starting to use the 44 for primary training? What does an R44 rent for with a CFI?

 

Disregard: I found it on the site. Per the web site $425 p/h for the R44. It will cost you almost $25K more to do up through your CFII in an 44 vs a 22. I know you didnt come on here to get barked at about financing, but I am seeing plenty of reasons why I would not pick Elite. Cost, hot, nasty. High DA isnt really a reason to choose a flight school. Neither is mountains. The vast majority of your training towards your ratings shouldnt put you anywhere the mountains at a 7000ft DA. So I just dont see it as a selling point for a school. Perhaps new students think it matters at the starting line of their careers.

 

I read through the posts after I asked the question and didnt see the answer. So it looks like "normal" people can train in the R22, but the school chooses to put VA funded students through the entire course in the R44 correct? Schools across the nation use 22s for Part 141 training. So your school has just chosen not to. Its pretty obvious why. Its so the VA and/or other student loan programs will fund only the 44. I cant see any other reason. So the students are funneled into the 44 by design.

 

Training in an R44 for your certs makes about as much sense as starting a new airplane student in a Cessna P210. Unless you have money to burn, no way.

Edited by Flying Pig
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as a flight school only having R-44s, it seems to be becoming more common. I've noticed a handful of small flight schools that only have 44s, and yes I think most of them advertised other types of work such as sightseeing, charter, photo flights, etc. I've heard a few people tell me they think the training industry will start shifting more into the R-44, maybe they're right.

 

There are more R44's entering into the training sector because flight schools are requiring them for the 9/11, GI Bill Veterans training. The bottom line is; the flight school wreaks more profit from the benefit while the student gains nothing, if not less, then the average non-vet student.

 

As far as tours, charters, photo flights are concerned; the “tours” are a marketing ploy to draw students in. If the school does do tours, I’m sure they don’t do a lot of them and they are not the main revenue generator. Flight schools make money training students and everything else supports that endeavor. With charters, very few schools do charter work because it requires are 135 certificate. Photos can be done in any machine.

 

Most likely, the people you are talking to do not have your best interests in mind. In short, they want to sell you a product. Listen to them and you’ll only have yourself to blame…..

 

None of this is new. NONE of it. Many of us have seen this type of hype many times before and the usual result for the majority of the graduates are; no job and no future…..

 

Edited by Spike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do offer an R22 but it's for part 61. We don't have it under our 141. For our school and our students training in an R44 just makes more sense. It's safer!

 

By your words, it would appear at your school, the part 61 students are learning to fly with a lesser degree of safety…….

 

SHAME ON YOU!

 

Edited by Spike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Wow, here is a gospel statement for sure, EVERY school does charter (requires a 135 Air Taxi Certificate).

 

R44's are not required for many things including flight instruction but how can you make a blanket statement about what EVERY school does? More gospel spoken by the all knowing.

 

I would ask how many flight schools have an Air Taxi Certificate and where is there focu

 

I admidt that the "charter" one got past me as I was just paraphrasing another post. However, I didn't realize you needed a 135 cert to do photo and sightseeing flights flights, both of which EVERY flight school I have been to, or researched on the internet does.

 

Besides, my point was that these things are a hook that some schools are using to lure in gullible students to their rediculous ALL R44 programs!

 

...but you saw what you wanted to see, and responded to suit your ego just fine it seems!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do offer an R22 but it's for part 61. We don't have it under our 141. For our school and our students training in an R44 just makes more sense. It's safer! Our DA reaches almost 7K in the summer. You are on the boarder of dangerous doing auto's in a R22 at that point. More and more schools are training in the 44 vs the 22. You can't do the tours we do in a R22. We have a very successful tour program. We also work with one of the large tour companies to feed them pilots once our CFI's reach the required time. After all Vegas is a mecca for helicopter tourism.

 

rjl2001- the program is online classes. If you need anymore info please contact kristin@iflyelite.com she will be happy to answer any GI post 9/11 questions. Thanks.

 

How about switching out that R22 for an S300C, since your DA is so high? Then after training you could just transition your CFIs into the R44, which would only take 10 hours, when there's an opening!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Then after training you could just transition your CFIs into the R44, which would only take 10 hours, when there's an opening!?

 

Negative, Must have 200 hrs helicopter and 50hrs in an R44 to act as PIC in an Robinson R44. 25 R22 hrs may be credited towards that 50hr requirement. (At least that's the way I read it) I may be corrected but that 10hrs is to facilitate solo time for recieving training and not so the pilot can fly tours or provide training to others in that aircraft.

61.45 (5)

 

It would be good to have S300 and robinson time though, as long as you met SFAR 73.

 

Just my opinion

Edited by gary-mike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Negative, Must have 200 hrs helicopter and 50hrs in an R44 to act as PIC in an Robinson R44. 25 R22 hrs may be credited towards that 50hr requirement. (At least that's the way I read it) I may be corrected but that 10hrs is to facilitate solo time for recieving training and not so the pilot can fly tours or provide training to others in that aircraft.

61.45 (5)

 

It would be good to have S300 and robinson time though, as long as you met SFAR 73.

 

Just my opinion

 

Nope, Pilot's correct. All you need is 10hrs dual and the endorsement, to be PIC. Its "and/or" with the 200/50 thing. You just have to renew that endorsement after 12 months if you still don't have the 200/50.

 

That "solo" requirement is 20hrs, but its only for students not rated helicopter pilots.

 

You still need the 200/50 to teach, but not to fly tours (hence the Old City Helicopter's ad for a 200hr pilot with 20hrs R44 to fly tours).

 

If everyone at the school was training in the S300 they wouldn't need the SFAR requirements to teach new students,...or the 200hrs to start teaching! Since they do tours in the R44 all they need is one CFI with the 200/50 to bring in new CFIs to the tour side. Eventually they will also reach the 50hrs R44 from tours, which they can then use to transition other new CFIs,...and so on...

 

So as you can see, I'm on the "All your training in an R44 is a waste of money", side!

Edited by eagle5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And there is my correction. Thanks for the clarification Eagle. I even took the time to read the FAR before posting, guess I need more lawyer decifering practice. :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

Just like Mike mentioned about Elite, we DO have a full college program so that veterans with the GI bill or even non veterans can receive a 4 year degree and have 100% of their training paid for! I'm a helicopter CFI at Elite, Ive been there for a year now and helped them put this program together. It's a really great opportunity! And who wouldn't want to train in Vegas. We have great weather year round, you get high DA in the summer, and lots of mountainous terrain for training. We only train in brand new R44 raven II's with A/C. I'd be happy to answer any questions feel free to contact me at my direct email chris@iflyelite.com or any VA questions contact Kristin Duarte, kristin@iflyelite.com

 

 

Your school offers free flight training? How does a non-vet get their training 100% paid for?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

By your words, it would appear at your school, the part 61 students are learning to fly with a lesser degree of safety…….

 

SHAME ON YOU!

 

 

Just for the new folk’s edification. The R44 is not safer. It’s just more capable. Flight schools will often misuse the word “safer” to instill fear in a new customer and drive them toward purchasing something they shouldn’t need…..

 

In the hands of any competent pilot, or instructor, the R22 is just as safe as the R44, or the S300, when they are operated within their designed limitations. This is true at altitude, in the heat, cold, or any other environment as long as it’s within the limitations. This has been true for many, many, years and nothing has changed to necessitate a statement like “it’s safer”. Simply put, the R22 has been operated in the Vegas area for a long, long time. To my knowledge, Vegas area has no more R22 mishaps than any other area in the country……

 

Furthermore, it’s been said, to get ahead in this business, you need to bring something more to the table. With this in mind, if I can “sell” a program, like a degree program for Vets, and bring in more students, then I become more valuable to the company. My increased value gets ME more students which, equates to more flight time, for ME!

 

Edited by Spike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I admidt that the "charter" one got past me as I was just paraphrasing another post. However, I didn't realize you needed a 135 cert to do photo and sightseeing flights flights, both of which EVERY flight school I have been to, or researched on the internet does.

 

Besides, my point was that these things are a hook that some schools are using to lure in gullible students to their rediculous ALL R44 programs!

 

...but you saw what you wanted to see, and responded to suit your ego just fine it seems!

 

P476398,

 

For the record, I asked how many flight schools possess a 135 certificate and are doing charter because you said EVERY. You and I both know that a helicopter operator does not need an air taxi certificate to do photo or certain tours. I never said that they did.

 

Ego has nothing to do with it, as it was a clarification and a question about EVERY, which is now changed to EVERY that you visited or researched. Agreed.

 

Also, for the record, in other threads I have posted that the best qualified new CFII would meet the SFAR for 22 & 44 and have S300 time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

P476398,

 

For the record, I asked how many flight schools possess a 135 certificate and are doing charter because you said EVERY. You and I both know that a helicopter operator does not need an air taxi certificate to do photo or certain tours. I never said that they did.

 

Ego has nothing to do with it, as it was a clarification and a question about EVERY, which is now changed to EVERY that you visited or researched. Agreed.

 

Also, for the record, in other threads I have posted that the best qualified new CFII would meet the SFAR for 22 & 44 and have S300 time.

 

You just don't get it, so move on,...this thread has run its course anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...