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Time building in a NEW R44 Raven II for only $225 per hour.

time building cheep r44 Commercial SFAR

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#1 PatrolAce

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 15:20

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#2 pilot#476398

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:37

This is about the fourth time you've posted this and still no takers?  I'd do it (sounds like it might be fun) but I ain't got the dough!  Maybe in a few months, if you're stll around?



#3 PatrolAce

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 15:00

Have a great day.



#4 MileHi480B

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:39

This thread (the main points quoted below) sum up what I believe it wrong with the helicopter industry.

 

By the way, I am an "outsider" looking in.  I do not fly for a living, nor do I want to.  I fly for personal business and fun.  But I have some acute observations:

 

This is the ONLY industry I know where people pay to work!  This guy needs pilots to do pipeline inspections.  He is no doubt being paid from the gas or oil company ... and in his contract he most-likely included the cost for running his machines, pilot time, etc.

 

Now, instead of hiring pilots to do the job, he wants them to PAY HIM!

 

Oh, I get it.  Flight time is difficult to build ... and some of you may bite at this because it is cheaper than most other ways to build time.  But as long as helicopter pilots do not respect their own industry, no one else will and it will perpetuate the problem of low to no pay jobs (like this) and dog-eat-dog mentality.

 

Can you imagine the medical industry uproar if we expected doctors to perform surgeries just to get the experience (please don't confuse internships - at least they get paid as do most internships in other industry).  How about lawyers expected to work for free just to get litigation time?  Think of any other industry where you struggle like this to "make it" ... and then after you make it, you exploit other pilots the same way. Even a low-paid apprentice program would be better than the insult of paying to work.

 

This mindset has made outsiders like me expect things for nothing:  Flight instruction is free if a guy wants to build turbine time and I have a turbine .... I can actually charge a pilot to pick up my helicopter from the factory or to ship it from one place to another ... I can get paid from a pilot to have him take aerial photos, while I get paid for the contract from a vendor ... and there are a host of other scenarios where you guys not only work free but PAY for the privilege.  

 

You have diminished the "value proposition" for your entire industry.  You have made your training worth nothing. You have driven your industry down in the marketplace.

 

You may think I'm nuts ... but I am not.  It is sound business principal to create value.  But because you guys are all so anxious to build time, you are the one paying them!

 

There is only one other business I can think of where you pay to get experience - and that occupation is outlawed in most states (except Nevada).

 

Until pilots stand up for each other and demand to be respected for their training and stop paying to work ... the industry will be downtrodden and you will be "johns" - paying for pleasure rather than "attracting" a mate.

 

 

 

 

 

I am offering R44 time building while doing real world commercial flying. ... For CFI's needing to get your hours in an R44 this is a very good opportunity for you.  ... I might be able to assist you with your lodging while you are flying.  You will fly 6-7 hours every day...Booking NOW.


Edited by MileHi480B, 05 May 2013 - 11:49.

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#5 apiaguy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:47

Hmm. I agree. Pencil whipping is much better than paying to fly.
Oh my. What's wrong with me today? I'm on one

#6 MileHi480B

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 13:54

Your logic is absurd.  To assume that I endorse pencil whipping based on what I said is an illogical and ridiculous response to deflect the real issue.  

 

Kinda reminds me of people who criticize animal rights activists with the response:  "Why aren't you fighting against child abuse?  So you think child abuse is acceptable?" 

 

Endorsing one stance (such as being paid to fly) does not support your assertion.


Edited by MileHi480B, 05 May 2013 - 13:58.

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#7 apiaguy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 14:38

I'm not assuming you endorse pencil whipping. On the Contrary. I would support it more than paying for these types of gimmicks.

#8 eagle5

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 16:28

 

This mindset has made outsiders like me expect things for nothing:  Flight instruction is free if a guy wants to build turbine time and I have a turbine .... I can actually charge a pilot to pick up my helicopter from the factory or to ship it from one place to another ... I can get paid from a pilot to have him take aerial photos, while I get paid for the contract from a vendor ... and there are a host of other scenarios where you guys not only work free but PAY for the privilege.  

 

You have diminished the "value proposition" for your entire industry.  You have made your training worth nothing. You have driven your industry down in the marketplace.

 

 

A commercial pilot paying to work as a pilot happens for one simple reason.  There aren't enough entry-level jobs to accommodate the number of entry-level pilots!  Flight instruction only works for the select handful of pilots fortunate enough to find those incredably scarce jobs!  Everyone else has no other choice but to buy the flight hours needed to meet the rediculously high insurance requirements!  Even flying tours in a 44 requires 500 hours!  How else are low timers supposed to get from 200 to 500, if there is no one out there willing to hire them?  Life is f*cked up and cruel, especially in this grossely overpopulated world get used to it!



#9 Goldy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 19:36

 

 Even flying tours in a 44 requires 500 hours!  How else are low timers supposed to get from 200 to 500

 

Is this in the FAR's? Let me know quick, as I just took on a less than 250 hour pilot to fly tours in the 44.....so if I'm doing something wrong, best to let me know asap. Too bad too, cause I had an opening so I just called him, because I know him......in fact, I met him via this forum.

 

I probably should have looked at one of those hundred resume faxes that came in instead.

 

Networking! what a waste....


Edited by Goldy, 05 May 2013 - 19:41.

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#10 Goldy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 19:37

Sorry, tried to make the double post go away, but no luck.....


Edited by Goldy, 05 May 2013 - 19:44.


#11 eagle5

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 20:15

 

Is this in the FAR's? Let me know quick, as I just took on a less than 250 hour pilot to fly tours in the 44.....so if I'm doing something wrong, best to let me know asap. Too bad too, cause I had an opening so I just called him, because I know him......in fact, I met him via this forum.

 

I probably should have looked at one of those hundred resume faxes that came in instead.

 

Networking! what a waste....

 

 

You can network all you want it won't change the supply and demand problem in aviation!  The fact that your friend had to network to get that job just reinforces the fact that there just aren't enough jobs out there for low timers, so some are gonna have to pay for it!



#12 rubidug

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 14:25

I am a music teacher by trade. I am working on my PPLH.

 

I HAD to student teach for my last semester of college. I HAD to PAY tuition, gas and food, clothing and everything else required to teach in a high school. It was HARD scraping up money, and doing ALL of the dirty work for the paid teachers, while I was the only one not making money, and not able to get a second job because of the time requirements. Although parts of it sucked, I wouldn't change any of it- I learned more that semester then I did in all of college.

 

Then, I moved to Cali, and joined a band (while teaching). When we wanted to gig in LA, we had to PAY them!! They required us to pay them up front, or sell a certain amount of tickets ahead of time, or purchase the tickets ourselves. So, I was driving my own truck, paying for my own fuel, lugging that damn huge drum set up flights of stairs, playing for 4 hours, then hauling all that chit back home, and finally go to bed at 3-4AM. Why was I PAYING to do this? Because the competition is fierce, and some bar/club/venue owner figured out that if the bands pay him/her, they can get a better chance of a performance at his/her place. And, they kept paying, so the offer stood. And, now its the norm. When the music wasn't fun any more, and the band members just started drama, I was done.

 

So, either the pilot competition would have to cease (pilot shortage LOL), or the owners/operators would have to change their mindset. 



#13 MileHi480B

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:24

"... So, either the pilot competition would have to cease (pilot shortage LOL), or the owners/operators would have to change their mindset."

 

Or pilots could refuse to put up with it.  

 

BTW ... your analysis about college is not comparable, in my opinion.  Many of these pilots have ALL of their ratings.  They are qualified.  They have already paid their "tuition".

 

And as far as music goes ... there is no one I know who pays to "gig" ... unless they are still learning ... or they are all paying in order to rent a venue.

 

I do not doubt your experience.  And I know exploitation goes on in other industries as well.  That doesn't make it right.

 

The impression in the marketplace is that helicopter pilots are a dime a dozen ... they don't think they're worth anything ... you can always find someone to fly cheap ... and in some cases you can charge them to work for you!


Edited by MileHi480B, 08 May 2013 - 09:26.

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#14 eagle5

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:00

 

Or pilots could refuse to put up with it.  

 

BTW ... your analysis about college is not comparable, in my opinion.  Many of these pilots have ALL of their ratings.  They are qualified.  They have already paid their "tuition".

 

And as far as music goes ... there is no one I know who pays to "gig" ... unless they are still learning ... or they are all paying in order to rent a venue.

 

I do not doubt your experience.  And I know exploitation goes on in other industries as well.  That doesn't make it right.

 

The impression in the marketplace is that helicopter pilots are a dime a dozen ... they don't think they're worth anything ... you can always find someone to fly cheap ... and in some cases you can charge them to work for you!

 

Yeah, we should all go on strike!  I can see it now!  Every operator out there laughing his ass off saying, "Who gives a sh*t!  We don't need you!  Strike all you want!"



#15 MileHi480B

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:04

 

Yeah, we should all go on strike!  I can see it now!  Every operator out there laughing his ass off saying, "Who gives a sh*t!  We don't need you!  Strike all you want!"

 

And that, sir, makes my point.  The industry has eaten its young and destroyed any perception of value.


Edited by MileHi480B, 08 May 2013 - 12:04.

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#16 eagle5

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:40

 

And that, sir, makes my point.  The industry has eaten its young and destroyed any perception of value.

 

That's not the industry, that's supply and demand.



#17 PatrolAce

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 17:18

Oh, the opinions of  folks that are not trying to survive in this industry....The insurance companies are at the wheel here. For that reason, one person can teach another person to fly, but they can not get a job doing anything else until they get 500 or 1000 hours. That alone is the major problem with this industry. So...to the self proclaimed "outsider", you continue mowing grass while us in the industry try our best to help each other.



#18 MileHi480B

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:35

I don't mow grass.

 

But I agree with you on the dichotomy of the industry regarding new CFIs but it is not the only industry where those who teach can't get a job doing what they teach!  There is an expression in medicine ... those who can doctor, doctor - those who can't, teach.

 

BTW ... I agree that pilots should help one another.  But some of these offers just seem to be a way for the pilot to make some extra money or for the company to get free labor.



#19 eagle5

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 14:17

Oh, the opinions of  folks that are not trying to survive in this industry....The insurance companies are at the wheel here. For that reason, one person can teach another person to fly, but they can not get a job doing anything else until they get 500 or 1000 hours. That alone is the major problem with this industry. So...to the self proclaimed "outsider", you continue mowing grass while us in the industry try our best to help each other.

 

Tell me about it.  I just got rejected for a charter position (part-time) with the reason being, "our insurance requires 200 hours in the R44",...give me a f*ck'n break! <_<







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