Jump to content


UpperLimit2011General_468x60TigerTugsVRForumGen468Helicopter AcademyVOLO_VRGeneral468
Photo
- - - - -

COLLEGE DEGREE'S - Valuable for helicopter pilots?


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#21 helonorth

helonorth

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 939 posts

Posted 21 November 2013 - 21:45

Having a degree, in anything, is an advantage in any industry, for any job.  The point of an education is to teach you to think, not necessarily to learn everything about a particular subject.  I don't claim that simply having a degree, in and of itself, makes you employable, but it's a common belief in the world that someone with a degree has an enhanced ability to think things through because of education, and education is widely seen as desirable in and of itself, regardless of the major subject studied.  Like it or not, having a college degree is a big step above those who don't have one, and the ones who protest most loudly about this are those who don't have a degree.  Protest all you like, but it's a fact that people with degrees, on average, earn far more over a lifetime than those who have none.  That will not change, and in fact will most likely become more prevalent in the future.  If you want to make a good living, and do work that doesn't involve manual labor, get a degree.  In anything.  Nothing is guaranteed, but the odds are way in favor of those with a degree.

That's 100% correct. A common misperception is that a college degree is only the sum of the knowledge acquired. But the real benefit is the ability to think and reason on a higher level. PHI seemed to understand this as I saw pilots with a degree but unimpressive flight experience, go to the head of the line to transition into IFR twins. Not oddly enough, the under-educated person (and the fragile-egoed) is not likely to have a grasp on this and would probably reject it anyway. BTW, I'm a college dropout. 



#22 Spike

Spike

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,619 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:34

In my opinion……

 

If we consider the core of the original question; is a bachelor’s degree valuable for a helicopter pilot, from my experience, the answer is no, it is not. Maybe it has been for others and, I do know people with degrees who secured jobs that required degrees (corporate gigs which funny enough they hated and subsequently moved on to jobs which do not require degrees). Nevertheless, all-in-all the majority of career pilots I know, do not have degrees. However, every single teacher, lawyer, doctor or CPA I know -does.  And, when interacting with these people, I did not witness any kind of “higher level of thinking”.  IMO, an education is by no means a measurement of intelligence…..

 

With respect to advancement, I’ve seen idiotic brown-nosing a**-kissers move to the head of the line, become managers or be paid a higher wage. In the end, there are multiple ways to advance. You can do it with a strong work ethic or with a formal education or by sucking up or, a combination of all three and be ripe for a management spot…..

 

The reality is: this career track does not attract folks who desire a formal education.  And, deciding the merits of this is not up to me. However, if the trend is to require a degree, then it should be understood, most folks will probably opt for a more lucrative career/lifestyle as this business simply cannot provide it. It’s that simple. BTW, this opinion is coming from a dumb-as-a-brick, non-educated career pilot....

 

Lastly, to be clear, I am a stanch supporter of higher education and my kids will be going to college. No question.  Then again, my kids will not be going to college to become a pro helicopter pilot…..


Edited by Spike, 22 November 2013 - 11:39.


#23 Gomer Pylot

Gomer Pylot

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 November 2013 - 20:17

I didn't go to college to become a pro helicopter pilot, either.  I did it to get out of that damned cotton field.  The helicopter pilot thing came about by accident, more or less, as a way to stay out of foxholes.  Uncle Sam needed helicopter pilots, and I was willing, and one thing just led to another.  My degree has not been really needed as a pilot, but I'm just one data point in a large data field.  I still say that having one is an advantage, no matter what you do for a living.  


Best Regards,

Gomer

#24 iChris

iChris

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 908 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 23 November 2013 - 16:44

 

What is your opinion about the value of a bachelor's degree for helicopter pilot interviews and job placement?

 

Would the following Bachelor’s degrees impress you as an employer seeking pilots?  Nothing wrong with any of these degrees; however, there only real marketability is at the Master’s or Doctorate level. Are they really a marker of a pilot’s ability to think and reason on a higher level? Is that really what our schools are setup to teach?

 

Social Work

Native American Studies

Afro-American Studies

Philosophy

Religious Studies

Urban planning

Graphic design

Zoology

East Asian Studies

Archeology

Aviation management

Wildlife Management

 

But the blanket recommendation that students should go to college and get a bachelor’s degree isn’t enough. It turns out that what you study and the careers for which your major prepares you matter, too. In fact, there are cases where someone with a lower level of education can earn more than someone with a higher degree, because of the course of study pursued.

It’s Not Just the Degree, but What You Study

 

It’s about the passion and the burning desire, which comes from within you. Most people look for something outside of themselves for success. Don't depend on the accreditation of a failed system. You need more than a degree. Your burning desire to be or to do will in most cases, overcome your lack of degree.

 

The Truth About College Grad 'Underemployment

 

One woman we know was a graduate of one of the finest universities in the U.S. with a very high GPA. When she graduated, she wanted to live in Los Angeles. And the only way she could live there was to get a job. It was hard to get a job, so she took a clerical position. And over the next few years, she watched, listened and got a bunch of accreditations. Eventually, she evolved in her career and is today one of the top people in her field and very comfortable.

 

A young man we know got a joint dance and business degree. What, exactly, do you do with that? No worries. He got a job selling ladies shoes on a commission-only basis; today, he is the top sales person for a leading retail chain and well on the way to success.

 

Another woman we know had a baby during her senior year at a prestigious research institution. She knew she had to get a job immediately upon graduation and that the job market was tough; her degree in Animal Science guaranteed her nothing. So she created a position supporting a research lab. Nonetheless, she distinguished herself as a go-getter with unique ideas. She became highly sought-after in her original field and, ultimately, created several new opportunities and grew them. She now makes more money and more important decisions than most people she knows with twice as much education.

 

And then there’s the man who graduated from an engineering school in his home country. But when he came to this country, the only job he could get was serving food in one of the ethnic restaurants of his upbringing. Over time, he leveraged this and became the president of a company that consults to small businesses and restaurants. Clearly, he has done quite well.

Forbes.com: The Truth About College Grad 'Underemployment

 

Then there are the following quotes about education:

 

“The point of an education is to teach you to think.”

“The real benefit is the ability to think and reason on a higher level.”

 

Yes, that should be the objective, but an agenda was set years before we were born to implement the means of controlling what we think.

 

 

Charlotte Iserbyt: The Miseducation of America
(The Secret History of Western Education)

 

 

Your Indoctrination To Education

 

 

Also: Schools are prisons


Edited by iChris, 14 April 2015 - 01:59.

  • SBuzzkill likes this
Regards,

Chris

#25 pilot#476398

pilot#476398

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 November 2013 - 17:49

I knew Orwell would pop up in there eventually! :lol:  And to think I clicked on that expecting the video for "Hot for teacher?" :(



#26 Spike

Spike

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,619 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 November 2013 - 19:57

Recently, while traveling to my annual night EP training I, once again was reminded of the gift this career can bring….

 

The trip consists of an hour-and-twenty minute airline flight mostly full with commuter business folks. That is, more-than-likely, “educated” business folks, if you get my drift…. Oddly enough, it was obvious a few of these biz types traveled in the same circles. I couldn’t help but listen to their conversations about deadlines, meetings, clients, on/off-targets, calendars, lunches and such while dressed by the newest of the Men’s Warehouse (I guarantee it) attire.  I thought to myself, these folks are the lucky ones who get to break away from their cubicles and travel, albeit to eventually end up in someone else’s office. Even then, at that moment, I thought to myself, this is what you get from an education? A few were OG’s who’ve probably been doing their thing for years. The grunts of middle management, or sales rep or tech rep….. Hopefully, they're happy with career decisions…….

 

When deplaning, they collect their laptops and carryon rollers and like cattle, they head to the arrival curb where they meet their significant other or zombie-like coworker. I stand there and watch as they scurry on with painfully similar lives…….

 

Me, in a couple hours when it’s dark, I’ll be attempting to zero-out a full-down in an AS350B3.... F’n bitchin…..


Edited by Spike, 23 November 2013 - 21:29.

  • Fred0311, Francis Meyrick, ospreydriver and 1 other like this

#27 palmfish

palmfish

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 649 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:KBFI
  • Interests:Helicopters, German sports cars, Audiophilia
  • Company working for:USDOJ

Posted 23 November 2013 - 21:46

Ah, stereotypes...

Of course a college degree isnt important for a career as a helicopter pilot. Of all my friends who went to college, only two are actually working in rhe field they studied - one is a lawyer and one is in banking. All the rest (including me) are working in completely different fields.

So, in my opinion, unless you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. college is strictly a piece of paper that can open some doors and/or a personally fulfilling experience. The latter though cannot be underestimated.

If someone has the means and the desire, post-secondary study of the arts, soft sciences, history, etc. can be a very enriching and rewarding pursuit. Its not for making money or learning a skill, its about personal growth and expanding your horizons. I think the world would be a much better place if all young people got some post-secondary liberal arts education and also traveled/lived overseas for a period of time. These things have a way of broadening narrow minds and putting our place in the world into better perspective - which, coincidently, will make one a better pilot as well as a better human being.
  • Francis Meyrick likes this

#28 pilot#476398

pilot#476398

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,000 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 November 2013 - 22:26

One of the biggest regrets of my life was wasting college on a Liberal Arts degree!  If you go to college study something useful!  If you want to expand your horizons and work on personal growth, go to the library and pick up a book!  It won't cost a thing!



#29 Flying Pig

Flying Pig

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,931 posts

Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:20

Study something useful like Philospohpy.....so while you are sitting around the EMS base waiting for a call you can dazzle your friends with witty one liners.
  • WolftalonID and swan3609 like this

#30 aeroscout

aeroscout

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NWArk
  • Interests:Water Skiing, skydiving, Speaking, Writing, Reading.
  • Company working for:Caruso

Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:21

One of the biggest regrets of my life was wasting college on a Liberal Arts degree!  If you go to college study something useful!  If you want to expand your horizons and work on personal growth, go to the library and pick up a book!  It won't cost a thing!

Unless it's overdue, which reminds me...



#31 palmfish

palmfish

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 649 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:KBFI
  • Interests:Helicopters, German sports cars, Audiophilia
  • Company working for:USDOJ

Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:45

Nobody goes to the library anymore. You can download library books directly to your Kindle for free. Just stay home in your pajamas :)

#32 avbug

avbug

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,278 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 24 November 2013 - 13:36

I go to the library.

 

It's where the local writers group meets.



#33 Lastshot

Lastshot

    VR Veteran Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indianapolis, IN

Posted 09 February 2014 - 20:50

Are any of you wanting to be military helicopter pilots?  Seems to be the best route to getting flight training paid for?  Curious to know your thoughts.



#34 Boatpix

Boatpix

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 203 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 23:17

I've put at least 100 helicopter pilots into a helicopter job flying for me in my aircraft in a 141 school based in Hollywood (Miami/Ft Lauderdale), Florida.  I never asked any if they had a college degree.  I don't think that any employers have asked, either.   Further,  I've put all of those into jobs without a care as to whether they have an IR or a CFII as we fly R22's and R44's on sunny vfr days. None of our helicopters have a three axis autopilot and we don't fly IFR or in the clouds.    Many have gotten jobs without a college degree or an IR or a CFII.  I think they should get a first job and then get additional ratings like IR and CFII, then ATP.   Perhaps they want to get a college degree and that is fine.   I have a college degree in Mechanical Engineering.  Took me like five years and I graduated with twice the credits than the Pre Law guys did.   That was quite a multiyear load when I've trained pilots from zero to cfi in four months and given them jobs.  Many have gone on to making six figures in a relaxed environment and have privately thanked me.   I'm an advertiser here, an employer, a twirlybird (means I soloed 20 years ago),  a helicopter owner and have flown since 1986.   Nothing has changed in this industry as it's about hours and ratings.  Mostly hours.   The colleges and degree seekers will tell you all sorts of other things but they don't own helicopter or answer to insurance companies.    I've seen a lot of high time helicopter pilots without a degree start to seek a degree and then try to rewrite history and encourage those after them to seek a college degree or start some sort of survey that I could have quickly answered with my knowledge.    I've heard a lot of college recruiters wax on about how at some time in the past that airlines started requiring college degrees but I'm surrounded by airline pilots that don't have degrees.   I've had students that had doctorates and sought to be astronauts.   They need a degree, yes, and are likely to loose out to some minorities for those coveted astronaut positions.   To fly a helicopter the person doing the hiring looks at the hours, ratings, accident history and a bunch of intangibles that they can't really quantify easily either.  A college degree is a coincidence and not required.  Do remember that there are well qualified pilots that are called upon to go 100 miles out to sea, at night, and do hoist work and some can do it and some can't.  A college degree isn't going to help.  My two cents, but I've owned helicopters for over 25 years so maybe you should weigh my comments more heavily than those that have an agenda. 

 

Also,  if you are in Miami for the Miami Boat Show this weekend you will find me and one of my helicopters on a 160 foot boat near the Eden Roc hotel as an old friend asked me to put a heli on a boat he has for sale.  He offered me $10k to put my Raven 2 on the boat for ten days but it was booked at $425/hour so I have him an R22 Mariner for the show.   If you watched the popular current movie  "Wolf of Wallstreet" and remember the scene where the helicopter was washed off by the rogue wave that is not exactly accurate.   The helicopter was pushed off so the Italian rescue Chinook could get the 11 passengers off the boat.  The captain was the last to get hoisted and is my "old friend" and student.  The boat in the movie was named Naomi but the actual boat was named "Nadine".   Google "Nadine Sinking" and it will tie together some unanswered questions from this very popular move.  Perhaps the funniest 13 minutes on youtube I've ever seen.   We are all drug/alcohol tested but this will give you a perspective of boating and helicopters.


Tom McDermott, manager
HelicopterAcademy.com/BOATPIX


#35 aeroscout

aeroscout

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NWArk
  • Interests:Water Skiing, skydiving, Speaking, Writing, Reading.
  • Company working for:Caruso

Posted 12 February 2014 - 23:29

I don't like it when loose is used when lose is grammatically correct.

Example...

They need a degree, yes, and are likely to loose out to some minorities for those coveted astronaut positions. 

 

But that's just me.



#36 avbug

avbug

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,278 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 22 February 2014 - 15:29

I've put at least 100 helicopter pilots into a helicopter job flying for me in my aircraft in a 141 school based in Hollywood (Miami/Ft Lauderdale), Florida.  I never asked any if they had a college degree.  I don't think that any employers have asked, either. 

 

 

You're also a bottom of the barrel feeder that charges people for a job, lowers the bar across the industry, and has far more complaints and compliments about you, your operation, and your work, and your business dealings, across the board.  One needn't look far to see that for one's self.  

 

One hardly needs a degree to lower the bar, or to invite others to do so.  



#37 collectivepro

collectivepro

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:06

Any education is good but the "college degree" assumption is not valuable if you examine the truth of current facts. I recently examined the cost and value of my college degree and came to the conclusion that it is not worth the monetary value I traded to get that shiny piece of paper. Now many would argue that sit in a tenor-ship in a university and lecture a class, a whopping 3 times a week from pre-structured PowerPoints. Albeit some professors are better than others but to me it seems like a sweet "gig."

 

Job Placement in General (of the recent educated)

 

I fall into the category of recent young graduates within the last 4 years. Currently 50% of college graduates fail to find a job that pays 35k+ within a significant amount of time, and many work multiple jobs until they discover networking and nestle themselves into an organization.

 

College Debt Soars

 

With our national trend of accumulating debts that cannot be paid back in a timely manner or even at all. Now the avg. student loan debt is around 30K but this is including associates degrees as well which skews the number significantly for 4 year degrees, most 4 year degrees = 60-80K of debt.  In my case, including my flight costs, I left a certain University with over 100K in hard earned debt.  Now consider the prime-rate on federal loans has nearly been doubled (thank you Mr. Obama).  If a student makes the minimum payment over a 20 year term that investment of education seems to have some rather large financial consequences.

 

Higher Education Reality

 

You are required to take 125 credits. Some classes are good but some include some crap you will never use or even recite again. Sure there is a good time in college and you get to "find yourself,"  create a path, etc etc...   Well why do you have to pay for that?

 

Real Education

 

When you graduate or enter the real world, like any other job you need experience. Well how do you get experience?  I think anyone would always hire someone with experience over a degree, if they value common sense.

 

Real value and education comes from a person's will to learn and apply what they have learned for the future.  This is what forms an adult that can make informed decisions, not a piece of paper.

 

Future Generation

 

Instead of pampering our children with a false guarantee to get a job because they have a degree, why don’t we instill a hard work ethic in them and the will to explore and learn? Rather than scare them into thinking they need an erroneous piece of paper that is feeding the green monster in the USA's financial sectors.

 

Personal Biased Conclusion

 

I have had a recent experience of traveling around the world through some of the richest parts of the world and some of the poorest parts of the world.  When you strip away all of the Bull$%&t and actually look at things for what they are; then you can solve problems, see the real issues, and make organizations better or grow them.

 

Any employers on here want someone that can solve problems?  Do emploers prefer a person that has a self-entitled Master’s Degree?

 

Instead of going to grad school, I traveled. How many masters degrees out there teach you to get into "local only airports," sit with the CEOs of companies for coffee, or sit in on a meeting with an Oil Company considering contracts for an off-shore oil contract  (most people do not even know that they drill in that part of the world)?

 

If I would take out a loan again; I would travel, get a helicopter rating, and educate myself on things that pertain to my path.

I must apologize to rant about this topic but I really wish I did not have a college degree. It sickens me to see people feel they have to have one. The assumption or notion that a helicopter pilot should have a degree is absurd.  Look at the airlines!

 

"Hi, I have been a regional pilot for 2 years, I have 100K in debt, and I just got a raise to 27K!  I can now purchase the larger packs of roman noodles!"

 

See cultures, see the world, realize you live in a bubble,  and learn to adapt because the US might change in the next 20 years significantly.  More importantly, if you’re in a specific skilled trade, kind of like a helicopter pilot,..then learn that trade and be grateful for people that give you opportunities rather than try to impress them with a shiny piece of paper.

 

Safe Flying Friends.


  • Francis Meyrick likes this

#38 Francis Meyrick

Francis Meyrick

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TEXAS, USA !!
  • Interests:Fixed Wing and Helo trucker. I enjoy being a chopper jockey, and trying to figure the world, people and belief systems out. I'm not very good at it, so it keeps me real busy. I scribble, blog, run a website, (www.writersharbor.org) run rental houses, ride motorbikes, and read as much as I can. I went solo 44 years ago, and I like to say I'm gonna get me a real job one day. When I grow up. ("but not just yet, Lord, not just yet")
    For my aviation scribbles see www.chopperstories.com.... enjoy!

Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:43

I've taught guys to fly hairplanes and heli-whoppers who had not, or barely, finished high school. They made excellent pilots. Needed extra help with exams sometimes, but they did fine. And some went on to become commercial jockeys. Some of the best pilots? Former truck drivers.

 

Now, does a college degree benefit a pilot?

 

Yes.

 

Main reason?

 

Because the world is full of academic morons and intellectual twits. They tend to sit haughtily and supremely on interview panels, and THEY are impressed with college degrees.

 

My college background of Mathematics, Economics, History, German & French literature,  never helped me squat avoiding the wires, or flying that perfect vertical roll.

 

I'm all for the small man, no degrees, no airs and graces, whose eyes light up when somebody mentions going flying.

 

Just me.

 

:ph34r:


  • Little Bird likes this

"Flying is a Privilege, and not a Right"

 

 

fa9f27a0-98d0-48ed-9687-6953eb7f9fca_zps


#39 r22butters

r22butters

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,453 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pluto,...at least until the next election :) ,...damn the wifi here is unbelievable!
  • Interests:Admiring the city lights and coastal sunsets from a thousand feet,...when I have the dough. :)

    ,...oh' yeah, and boobs!
    😕+🍟+🚁+🌃=☺
    .
  • Company working for:Just a happy recreational pilot! :)

Posted 18 September 2014 - 21:37

Some of the best pilots? Former truck drivers.

 

 

...and some of the best truck drivers? Unemployed pilots.

 

Go to college!

 

10/4 good buddies.

Big Rig Butters

:)


  • aeroscout and Francis Meyrick like this
The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fourteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#40 Francis Meyrick

Francis Meyrick

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TEXAS, USA !!
  • Interests:Fixed Wing and Helo trucker. I enjoy being a chopper jockey, and trying to figure the world, people and belief systems out. I'm not very good at it, so it keeps me real busy. I scribble, blog, run a website, (www.writersharbor.org) run rental houses, ride motorbikes, and read as much as I can. I went solo 44 years ago, and I like to say I'm gonna get me a real job one day. When I grow up. ("but not just yet, Lord, not just yet")
    For my aviation scribbles see www.chopperstories.com.... enjoy!

Posted 20 September 2014 - 15:46

 

See cultures, see the world, realize you live in a bubble,  and learn to adapt because the US might change in the next 20 years significantly.  More importantly, if you’re in a specific skilled trade, kind of like a helicopter pilot,..then learn that trade and be grateful for people that give you opportunities rather than try to impress them with a shiny piece of paper.

that resonates with me.  Especially:

 

See cultures, see the world, realize you live in a bubble,

Realize you live in a privileged bubble.  I have learned that, slowly. Maybe.

 

:rolleyes:


"Flying is a Privilege, and not a Right"

 

 

fa9f27a0-98d0-48ed-9687-6953eb7f9fca_zps





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Content Spy



NFCVRGeneral200HeliHelmetsGenesys VRForum200_GeneralDevoreGeneral200Helmet FX General 200MidwestHeliAcademy2016PrecisionVRForumGeneral200ColoradoHeliOpsGeneral200MaunaLoaSoftwareVRGeneral200