Hopeful Pilot Looking for Advice

[Ascent]

Hello everyone, and thank you for giving me a moment of your time.

 

Like many of you, I've dreamed my entire life about flying helicopters, and I'm trying to build a plan that will get me in the cockpit. Currently I am enlisted in the USAF and I was fortunate enough to land a job as an airborne communications specialist, so I'm lucky enough to get my boots off the ground while I'm in. I'm loving my service so finishing a degree and aiming for a pilot slot is an option I'm seriously considering, but there's no guarantee I would end up flying, I'd rather helicopters to fixed wing, and I'm turned off by the uncertainty. I want to be a pilot more than I want to be a lieutenant.

 

I have a couple years to set the pieces and get a plan rolling, and I have a few questions I would really appreciate some input on:

 

• Are universities that offer flight training as part of a degree, such as Embry-Riddle or UND, worth the extra cost and time as opposed to seeking the training directly from a flight school? Their programs are exciting and look great on paper, but does the industry care more about the number of hours, or where they came from?

• I've heard a lot of doom and gloom about the state of the industry for inexperienced pilots, and it can be pretty disheartening. What steps can I take to help me break that barrier?

• I'll be getting over a thousand hours of flight time over the next few years, but it will be as communications. Is there any way I can make use of that once I'm out?

• My leadership is very open to me continuing my education while I'm enlisted, and are willing to work with me. What courses/certifications can I work on while I finish out my enlistment? I'm familiar with the benefit programs I qualify for, I just need to find the best way to use them.

• I have the opportunity to take courses locally and get an A&P certification. The mechanics side is very interesting and I'd love to learn it, but I don't want to be a maintainer full time. Would being maintenance certified help my marketability to the industry as a pilot? It would conflict with taking other classes.

 

Thank you so much for taking time and helping me out, I really appreciate it. Fly safe.

 

-A Hopeful Airman

[jeffs]

I didn't read the whole thing man, but I do know that you could go WOFT Army Warrant Officer and have a chance at flying. Talk to a recruiter about it, and also check out the military discussion forum. Unless you want to go civilian, start now, if you get a private while in you could use your GI Bill almost anywhere, but if you use your GI Bill from private-CFII your limiting the schools. Things to think about. I wish I got my license when I was still in.

[pilot#476398]

If you want to be a civillian pilot;

 

I have a degree, and so far no employer has ever said to me during and interview, "Oh' I see you have a degree,...", so I don't think they really care?

 

The only reason I can see for going to one of these flight schools who also offer a degree is if you need someone else to pay for your training (as the degree program is generally a requirement for funding). If you pay for flight training out of your own pocket, don't waste the extra money on the aviation degree program!

 

As for the difficulties in starting a career. If you go to the right school at the right time, you'll be fine!

[Wally]

Ascent, you're asking about living your dreams. I say follow your dreams even if doing so doesn't end up with the whole dream. The road ahead for any potential helicopter pilot is steep, most starting that way won't get to the desired end, but 100% of those who do so will have started at the same beginning point you're at.

 

• Are universities that offer flight training as part of a degree, such as Embry-Riddle or UND, worth the extra cost and time as opposed to seeking the training directly from a flight school? Their programs are exciting and look great on paper, but does the industry care more about the number of hours, or where they came from?

Almost entirely all that counts is the number of hours.

• I've heard a lot of doom and gloom about the state of the industry for inexperienced pilots, and it can be pretty disheartening. What steps can I take to help me break that barrier?

Financial preparation and security! Even the successful new pilot is looking at somewhere between 2 and 10 years of minimal positive cash flow, if any positive net at all.

Doom and gloom is usual because only a small minority of those interested ever become working professional pilots.You have to face that fact squarely without letting it stop you.

The only good time to be entering this industry was the late 60s and then only via US Army flight school, and that only became apparent ten years later to the surviviors.

 

• I'll be getting over a thousand hours of flight time over the next few years, but it will be as communications. Is there any way I can make use of that once I'm out?

The experience will be an advantage, but it will probably only be valuable in selling yourself to potential employers who have a preference for veterans.

• My leadership is very open to me continuing my education while I'm enlisted, and are willing to work with me. What courses/certifications can I work on while I finish out my enlistment? I'm familiar with the benefit programs I qualify for, I just need to find the best way to use them.

Outside of actual flight training, flight hours and ground instruction towards the written exams, I can't suggest anything. Having an education is it's own reward. If you're interested in becoming management, degree is a prerequisite.

• I have the opportunity to take courses locally and get an A&P certification. The mechanics side is very interesting and I'd love to learn it, but I don't want to be a maintainer full time. Would being maintenance certified help my marketability to the industry as a pilot? It would conflict with taking other classes.

Not with large operators. They generally want pilots to be pilots only, keeping the two disciplines (turning wrenches and flying) separate.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Wally

[rotornut67]

Good advice from Wally...as usual. If you are single, dedicated and patient, and you don't care to go where those precious few entry level jobs are at then do it. (I say single because you are most likely looking at 5 years or more before you qualify for a decent paying job, and most wives don't enjoy being the sole bread winner for that length of time.) Keep a good "can do" attitude and be willing to put forth the extra effort and keep the whining and moaning to a minimum (or at least to yourself...LOL) then you will probably be successful. But, all the above is JMHO

 

P.S. I have a degree also and it has never once helped me that I know of but on the other hand it is something that no one can ever take away from you.

[Spike]

Transfer to the Army or, get the degree in an unrelated field and reenlist….

 

Historically, I’ve been a “follow your dreams” kind of guy but, the way the civilian industry appears to be headed, I’d go military…….

 

The freedom that this career brought is fading away. Increasing regulation, few jobs, continued low pay, “safety culture” paranoia and less than desirable training is nowadays making a career in the military look like a better choice….

 

Stay in uniform and thank you for your service…..

Edited January 18, 2014 by Spike

[Dnr032]

I second everything Spike said. Get your degree, apply to OTS and stay in the Air Force as an officer.

[Jaybee]

If you wish to stay Air Force and want a "guaranteed" helicopter slot, then talk to the Reserve Recruiter on base (there is one on every active duty base). The 920th Air Rescue Wing at Patrick AFB for example employs PJs and helicopter pilots, in fact they were the ones who pulled the Navy Seal guy out that wrote the book that turned into that Lone Survivor movie. Last I knew the sign on bonus four years ago for the Reserve Helicopter pilot was like 90,000 or some change. If you've never heard of it before there are ART and AGR slots to work full time and all kinds of other programs. As a "civilian" ART you can buy back your military time and put it towards your civilian retirement. So,,,,,, staying in wouldn't be such a bad idea

[Rosco99]

I HIGHLY recommend looking into the WOFT program with the Army. My wife used to be enlisted weather in the Air Force, and she is now a UH-60M Blackhawk pilot! It's a great program!

[Rosco99]

She just told me that she wouldn't mind answering any questions you have about the program, etc. Just PM me.

[Ascent]

Thank you all so much for the replies, it's really good to get advice from people on the inside.

 

If I could guarantee a helicopter slot I'd have no reservations staying military, I just really don't want to throw myself into getting a commission just to wind up being a logistics officer somewhere, I'd be miserable. That reserve gig at Patrick might be a really good thing for me to look at, I was actually already considering using Palace Chase and going reserve at Patrick as enlisted to get back in school sooner, they have a few slots for my current AFSC. Might be a great way to get a toe in the door.

 

If I do go civilian, what sort of jobs would I be doing entry level, and how long would it realistically take to be "competitive"?

[pilot#476398]

Realistically if you go civilian there's only one entry level job, flight instruction. Plan on 2 to 5 years to become competitive once you find that first teaching job.

[HeliAv8or]

You will qualify for the Post 9/11 GI Bill after you serve 3 years. In order to utilize the GI Bill, you need to be degree seeking. So yes, you MUST find a Flight School that is associated with an Institution of Higher Learning. In short, you need to find a College Degree program for your Flight Training. Embry Riddle, is NOT one of them. There are very few Flight Schools that are Part 141 and authorized to teach as part of a degree by the VA. You need to find the right one, I'm sure there are many on here that can help you pick; myself included...I've been through two of them out there and definitely know what to look for. Feel free to PM me if you want more information.

 

P.S...If you want to fly, use your GI Bill and do it as a Civilian. I know a CW4 in the Army flying Apache Longbows...he has been flying for the Army almost 12 years and barely has 3000 hours. You could get 3000 hours in 4-5 years in the Civilian flight market...the Civilian Flight Schools will also make you a better pilot.

[Hotdogs]

 

P.S...If you want to fly, use your GI Bill and do it as a Civilian. I know a CW4 in the Army flying Apache Longbows...he has been flying for the Army almost 12 years and barely has 3000 hours. You could get 3000 hours in 4-5 years in the Civilian flight market...the Civilian Flight Schools will also make you a better pilot.

 

Can open. Worms everywhere...

[Ascent]

Thanks for the input! ERAU advertises that I can use my GI Bill there, but I'll definitely be sure to look around and verify. I'm leaning towards getting a degree of some stripe, not because it will necessarily be more useful in the civilian field, but having a 4-year degree will provide more contingencies. If the worst happens and I'm completely unable to find that elusive entry level job, at least it will allow me to try to earn a commission as a back up.

 

I would really appreciate it if someone with experience could help me compare and contrast the schools, I'm really only familiar with ERAU and North Dakota. I care more about the number of hours and types of certifications for my cost, the little slip of paper I get at the end is more of a checkmark I'd like to have if things go south.

 

(As for the quality of military vs. civilian pilots, this isn't the thread to debate that. I'd appreciate if that discussion took place elsewhere.)

[AFstepchild]

There are actually quite a few flight schools now that partner with local colleges and offer helicopter training under Part 141 programs...which means the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill will pay 100%. Many of them are in South FL; Bristow, Palm Beach Helicopters, Cloud 9 come to mind as just a few....

 

Search "WEAMS Institution Search" and that will bring you to the VA website where you can find all the approved schools in the nation and their associated programs.

 

Also, don't discount the Montgomery GI Bill if you are eligible...there is more money there in forms of a BAH stipend, books/supplies allowances, unemployment, etc. I knew people who were making more money going to school full time than they did as an Active Duty E-5!

 

The AF helicopter community is very small, been reduced down to just rescue HH-60s and Missile site/DV support UH-1Ns. The pilot training classes are small (typically only 5-6 dudes), so the assignment drops out of Phase 1 UPT are few and far between. The only sure way to get in is as previously mentioned, i.e. Guard/Reserve unit hires you then sponsors you.

 

That being said, if your make your intentions known early...and bug the hell out of your UPT Flt Commander (like I did)...he may do some drug-dealing and go out and find you an upcoming helicopter slot... but the needs of the AF will always come first.

[jeffs]

HeliAV8or

 

Unless something has changed in the last 2 weeks that I talked to them, you are very wrong. EMBRY is a part-141 school.

[stace]

Agreed, Embry-Riddle contracts with Universal for their helicopter training - which is a Part 141 school...GI Bill and so on. Call around and get a feel for all the schools you have interest in, talk to the students there if you can. Between Army WOFS and civilian Part 141 schools, you have a lot of options... more than most of us did!

[kjackson81]

The quality of hours and the number of hours does weigh heavily on your chances of getting a good flight job. I was able to get my commercial licence from Hillsboro Aero in Oregon (http://www.flyhaa.com/helicopter/courses/). I got an awesome job not too long afterwards. I would recommend Hillsboro to anyone.

[Radam]

There is a lot of good advice being passed on to you here...I'll just add my 2 cents...

 

As others have mentioned above, be prepared for a long haul (2-5 years) seems about right before you become financially stable(ish). Having a family or other obligations could possibly hinder you along the way, but its not a deal breaker... you, and whoever, will just have to learn to sacrifice some as you plow through the earlier years of your career. It is totally doable if your motivated and don't give up. Regardless of what you decide to do, I would take the opportunity, when you can, to get your private rating and any other ratings you have the time/money for. I would hold off on getting your CFI rating until you are ready to start working as a CFI.

 

Flying in the military to me would only be a smart choice if you actually wanted to fly in the military. In the end it would slow you down for getting into the field if your goal was to be a civilian commercial pilot as soon as possible. I don't have a military background personally, but from the military pilots (and coast guard pilots) I have spoken too, they really don't fly as much as you would think they do, and there is a lot of "office" work....but like I said, I have no personal experience myself so take that with a grain of salt.

 

The A&P cert could either be a very big advantage or completely useless... If you desire to get into EMS, Tours (as a career), or gas and oil, I would say it will help you very little and most likely not at all. BUT...if you are wanting to get into utility, fire, ag or something like that I would say it could be a HUGE advantage, not to mention make you feel more secure in what you are flying.

 

College degree... Useless I would say for the most part. Like others have said, if it helps you get your training costs covered then its probably worth it... Will it help you land a job, very doubtful... I have never been asked about my degree and the only reason I got it was because I already had about 90% of it completed from prior college before I even began flight training. Literally all I needed were my aviation classes to finish it out.

[OR-Flyer]

Ascent,

 

A lot of the questions your asking reminds me of how I felt before I left the USCG. I was also pursuing a Bachelors and challenged with the question of weather to fly military or civilian and honestly the uncertainty that can come in both fields. On the civilian side you don't have a guaranteed job, on the military side are you going to get OCS? And then flight school? What happens if you don't get flight school? How long is that going to take? I was getting paid as a professional pilot in the civilian world probably before I ever even would have made it flight school in the USCG, and I had my Bachelors completed when I separated.

 

My advice would be to first step back and decide where you want to be in 5,10,15 years. Is flying military or civilian your dream? They are different as it sounds like you understand at this point. And don't think you can't fly a Blackhawk or Chinook in the civilian world (PJ Helicopters, Los Angeles County Fire, Columbia....).

 

I also worked as a crewmember, I was on the MH-65 Dauphin. The flight time will help you when it comes to your comfort being in the air when you begin training, which I found very helpful but you can't count it toward flight time as a pilot.

 

Universities-continue to work toward your degree on active duty. That's the best thing you can do for yourself right now. It may not get you an entry level job (then again it could...), even a middle level job, but maybe it'll get you that chief pilot job somewhere down the road (Reach Air Medicals). If nothing else it shows commitment to finishing what you've started. After that, they're a plenty of places to get your flight training to tack onto that Bachelors Degree. The most important thing is to visit schools and do your research!! I visited the big name Post 9/11 approved schools before I got out, Upper Limit, Guidance...as I visited them I had no idea what a disservice they were doing to veterans until I started working in the industry but I'm not going to go off on that. Go to a school where you can get the training you need. Getting a job afterwards is only impossible if your not willing to compromise (move). I attended Leading Edge Aviation in Bend, OR. The program is in no danger of getting shut down by the VA as you might believe when listening to the negativity in some of these threads referring to other schools. They hire many of their graduates and only their graduates. I got a job as an instructor there, and can't say enough about the professionalism and primarily the honesty of those who run that program. Be a go getter and you'll get a job.

 

Don't believe all the doom and gloom you read about being a civi pilot. I left active duty and within 3 years was working as a flight instructor flying over 600 hours/year. I'm married with a little guy and me and the family have never been happier. Good luck in your big upcoming decisions. Feel free to private message me with questions-that goes for anyone out there with similar concerns!