Opinions?

[RascalW]

Hello all,

 

New to the forum and appreciate all the information and assistance that has been shared and provided.

 

Anyway, I am at a crossroads in my military career and was looking for some civilian input regarding which is my likely best course of action. I am an Apache pilot sitting right around 1100 total hours. Of that only 150 is purely PC time mixed with AMC (air mission commander) time. Also, 680 of that is combat time which was largely accumulated by cross country flights - we we're in RC West and had to fly 1.5 hours cross country each way to get to the fighting almost every day. That also means that I have 680 hours flying in mountainous terrain typically between 8 - 12,000' MSL. As things stand in the military, continuing at this rate I will have approximately 1500 total hours with around 500 military PC hours.

 

Here comes my first question. I've been reading a lot on here and elsewhere about military PC time vs. civilian PC time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the crewmember on the flight controls is the PC in civilian regards; whereas, the military would still consider his time PI if he was not the briefed/designated PC on the flight schedule. If this view is correct then my PC time would go up to around 600 hours. Can anyone confirm how the civilian world actually considers PC vs. PI time?

 

Secondly, and most important, is my decision of tracking to be an aviation safety officer or an instructor pilot. It is my intent to leave the army and fly civilian in 26 months and want to set myself up for the best success and job chances. If I were to track IP then I would plan to teach at Ft Rucker and boost my PC time by 400 hours my last year. On the flip side, if I tracked safety then although I would continue to get PC time I would not get as much; however, I would have the safety rating. So safety rating or PC time... which would a company prefer?

 

Not attempting to write my resume here, but I also have a bachelor degree from Embry Riddle in Aeronautical Science. Furthermore, I intend to obtain my fixed wing rating and turbine rating once I am home from this deployment. Not for the purpose of flying fixed wing, but simply to boost PC time and qualifications.

 

In the end, I am looking for advice concerning my best routes from here for future success. I do not wish to teach at a flight school, but would rather fly for a company. I am aware that my flight time is insufficient as it stands for an EMS job, but what other jobs do I qualify for.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any advice that can be rendered.

 

Take care all and fly safe.

 

Dillon

[WolftalonID]

Well.... Speaking of logging PIC time as a civilian, refer to FAR 61.51 for definitive answers. Thats what defines the hours specifically.

 

As far as working goes...the age old addage, NETWORK!!!, now is a great time to get hired as the spring brings a fast rotation amongst the ranks.

 

Start working out your log book conversion and put together a solid resume. Plenty of military pilots here to help with that as well.

 

Start with an online resume hosting site, and then begin some planning to stop in and meet those responsible for hiring at companies you would consider working for.

[pilot#476398]

If you don't wish to teach at a flight school you will need AT LEAST 1000 hours PIC in helicopters, so getting your fixed wing rating will not help you on the entry-level side. With 1000 hours PIC you can try to get a job flying tours in the Grand Canyon and Alaska or flying in the GOM.

 

If you have less than 1000 hours PIC the only other option to teaching at a flight school, is to fly tours in an R44 which of course would require you to obtain experience in one first. The last military guy I flew with started off teaching and doing tours in the R44 before being bumped up into the companies BO105,...at least I think that's what he called?,...big ugly turbine thing!

[Wally]

I second WolftalonID's recommendation that you decipher the FAR.

In my experience, commercial operators don't care about air mission commander, aircraft commander or combat time. That's the only simple part.

 

My best impression:

If you are the required member of a 2-pilot crew, you can log all that time as flight experience, even if you never touch the controls.

Hands on the controls doesn't make that PIC flight time. PIC designation makes it so. PIC time is where responsibility and decision making are, and the experience being sought.

Cross country is all messed up with specific ratings distance requirements. Messed up? Yeah, an ATP has no distance requirements for logging cross country.

Apparently, there is some variation as to what the military terms flight time and the civilian definition. I would not use a rule of thumb, but I would most definitely spend some time correcting my civilian log book to reflect that definition.

 

I understand the latter part of your post to be safety training versus instructor assignment? That depends of what you want to do after the military. Management? safety training. Pilot job? flight instructor, especially if the total hours are an issue. I also think that an IP assignment is the finishing touch on leaning the basics.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Wally

[heligirl03]

You'll need 1000-1500hrs PIC helicopter, bare minimum if what you're looking for is a line pilot position. FW won't count towards anything first tier civilian turbine. Seek out the "Military to Civilian Transition" folks at HeliSuccess in Vegas in November (or HAI in Orlando next March) if at all possible, particularly BEFORE you choose a path or separate. They have "been there and done that" and are a great group of dedicated folks who want to help you with exactly this plan. They'll advise you on your résumé as well as highlight the opportunities and pitfalls ahead...there are many of both but you have to know where to look and how to get there Welcome and good luck!

[RascalW]

Thanks all for the valuable input... It is much appreciated.

 

heligirl03,

 

I did go to HAI's webpage searching for their next "military to civilian" transition, but only noticed the one that was this past February. Thanks for the tip and I'll go back and see if I can find the details the November workshop as that's what I really need.

 

There seems to exist quite a lot of confusing differences between military and civilian and I want to tackle these issues and have my ducks in a row prior to being 6 months out and looking for a job.

 

Thanks again to all... best of luck and fly safe.

 

Dillon

[RascalW]

P.S. Thanks to all for the making it known that companies don't care of FW time. That would have been wasted time/money and why I asked.

[WolftalonID]

I wouldn't just right off any fixed wing time though. Several jobs post hour requirements like this.

 

TT 2000

RW 1500

Turbine 500

 

So your total time as PIC can be a consideration, just keep in mind that magic hour mark for your helicopter time is right there at that 1500hrs.

[RascalW]

WolftalonID,

 

Yeah I saw a lot of those time requirements which is why I was considering the FW route solely to build PC time at a much cheaper rate. I will have 1500 hours dual turbine RW without any issues in 26 months, but it is the PC time that worries me. It is just so much cheaper to rent a Cessna than a R-22 and it would allow me to easily meet the 1000 hours PC time; however, that PC time would be mixed RW and FW.

 

Anyway, I feel as though I have gained much needed information from y'all and other post and I really appreciate it. Things are much clearer as to what I need to do now for what I want later...

 

 

Dillon

[Spike]

The fixed wing rating is valuable if you get the IR and practice IFR to proficiency. That is, IF you intend to someday seek a SPIFR helicopter spot….. If you do not intend to someday fly IFR in a helicopter, then concentrate on helicopter hours. Specifically, if the job requirement is 2000 hours total with 1500 in a helicopter, the guy with 2000 hours all helicopter will have the advantage……

 

Regarding your time, it’s as simple as sitting down with a former Apache pilot and finding out he/she converted their hours. Once you do that, then you can go through your book and recalculate the numbers in order to find out where you’re at. And, on the same track as Heligirl03 suggestion, do this sooner than later so when the time comes, you have logged a bunch of hours without needing to backtrack…..

 

Nevertheless, without further information regarding your particular situation I’ll add, why leave the military? And, if you must leave your particular branch, have you considered another branch? Or, maybe even the Coast Guard? In short, the commercial sector is a tough nut and not always ones cut-of-tea. Additionally, a military retirement provides a little subsidy to the average commercial helicopter pilot income. Therefore, unless you’re at the 20 year mark, consider staying in cuz sometimes what appears to be green grass on the other side of the fence is really a bunch of weeds……..

 

Thank you for your service to our country….

Edited March 9, 2014 by Spike

[RascalW]

Spike,

 

I have considered continuing my military career with the National Guard to continue flying the Apache. I do love my this aircraft and the mission; however, that is all beginning to change.

 

I originally joined the army as a warrant officer to fly the Apache and serve my country in combat. I am very grateful to the army for the opportunities and training they have given me. I was accepted into the program directly out of high school, received flight training, deployed to Afghanistan, and am truly proud of what I have done. I know that my actions have directly saved fellow Americans and brought them home to their loved ones. This was the entire reason I joined. I wanted to serve my country. That time is coming to a close. I never joined to make the military a career, but to do what I believe my duty was.

 

The military is changing with the draw downs and the changes are quite drastic. There is a big difference between an army at war and an army in peace time. Bottom line is I am a combat soldier - that's all I know, and the garrison soldier doesn't suit me very well. Now that all this is over the military does not need its present numbers. The reasoning for my service is over.

 

I understand that the grass is never greener, but there are differences. I am extremely proud of my service and wouldn't take any of it back, but it has also shown me just how important my wife and family is. I can deal with a lot of BS (thank the military... lol), but as long as I can come home to my wife - who has supported me through all this, and have the freedom to govern myself as an individual then I can deal with a lot of BS. Again, the military has given me a lot and I don't regret a minute of it, but it is time to move on to live the lifestyle I wish to. If we are ever back at war and I am still young enough and able then I will be back in the fight. After all, I love supporting ground forces in combat and making a difference. It is the most rewarding experience/feeling I have or will ever have.

 

Thanks for your input on the FW... Following my CFII with RW I will probably use the remainder of my GI Bill for FW experience and build that IFR time as you stated. I do really enjoy instruments and flying IFR - we get very limited IFR experience in the Apache as it isn't IFR rated. It is all sim time for us.

 

Dillon

[Trans Lift]

Besides all the stuff that has been talked about here, I would also advise to do your best to get out of the military mindset for the civilian world. Especially if you get into non-government type work like tours, teaching, offshore, utility, etc. I've met a lot of guys that still thought they were in the military and it didn't go down too well. Just a head's up!

Edited March 20, 2014 by Trans Lift