49 replies to this topic

[r22butters]

Today marks the 8-year anniversary of when I got my commercial rating and with 400 hours began looking for work as a pilot (after several attempts I came to the conclusion that I being a teacher wasn’t going to work out, and thus am not a CFI).

 

Just a month later I got my first interview. It was showing clients real estate that was for sale in Myrtle Beach from an R-44. Just 2 days a week, $400 bucks a month, but I lost out to a CFI.

  

 

Anyway, 6 years later (2 years ago) having gotten no other interviews (I used to come here a lot and bitch about that, among other things, but now I just stop by once a year…to bitch, moan, and groan  ), I said f*ck it and became a truck driver.

 

Ironically, shortly thereafter I got an interview! This one (the first in 6 years) was also in Myrtle Beach, only flying tours in an R-44. Sadly even after showing great interest in me, and getting the green light from their check pilot, I was not offered the job.

  

 

A week or so later, I got a call on another resume, and after a short phone interview I was offered a job drying cherries in Washington. Sadly a week or so before I was to start I got a call that their other pilot crashed the helicopter, and although he walked away fine, the chopper was thrashed and they were out of business!

 

 

One year later (last year) I got another interview with that same company to fly tours in Myrtle Beach, but again was not offered the job.

 

This brings us to this year and sadly no interviews, so its back to the road for me!

 

So to any of you newbies who may be having doubts about teaching? Flight instruct, or drive a truck! See ya next year.

 

10/4 good buddies

 

　

You know it’s kind of fortuitous that my first official day as a commercial pilot was April 1^st!      

 

Edited by r22butters, 08 June 2015 - 15:51.

[CoffeeAddict]

Hey Good Buddy!

 

I just got my CDL permit, road test in a couple weeks I suppose.

I'm in nearly the same boat as you just a sliver under the supposed "magic 500 the insurance company needs". At least you had people calling you back. My apps go into a black hole. I call people, have a very nice conversation, those people I call tell me, do A, B, C, D, etc. So I do those things and call them back. Hey I did A, B, C, D which leads to "Who are you again?" or what I call the next week, next month dance. Next week cha cha cha, next month cha cha cha in perpetuity.

While I have had some good experiences, in general my experiences have been more negative than positive. There are a lot of shady people out there. I'm just about ready to give it up.

[Spike]

Today marks the 8-year anniversary of when I got my commercial rating and with 400 hours began looking for work as a pilot (after several attempts I came to the conclusion that I being a teacher wasn’t going to work out, and thus am not a CFI).

 

Just a month later I got my first interview. It was showing clients real estate that was for sale in Myrtle Beach from an R-44. Just 2 days a week, $400 bucks a month, but I lost out to a CFI.   

 

Anyway, 6 years later (2 years ago) having gotten no other interviews (I used to come here a lot and bitch about that, among other things, but now I just stop by once a year…to bitch, moan, and groan), I said f*ck it and became a truck driver.

 

Ironically, shortly thereafter I got an interview! This one (the first in 6 years) was also in Myrtle Beach, only flying tours in an R-44. Sadly even after showing great interest in me, and getting the green light from their check pilot, I was not offered the job.

 

One year later (last year) I got another interview with that same company to fly tours in Myrtle Beach, but again was not offered the job.

 

This brings us to this year and sadly no interviews, so its back to the road for me!

 

So to any of you newbies who may be having doubts about teaching? Flight instruct, or drive a truck! See ya next year.

 

 

Butters, I’d like you to meet pilot#476398. Pilot#476398, this is Butters…..

[avbug]

Butters, I’d like you to meet pilot#476398. Pilot#476398, this is Butters…..

 

 

Oh, you didn't just go there, did you?

[Spike]

Oh, you didn't just go there, did you?

 

 

It appears to me these two have a lot in common (and not just the use of the emoticons) and Butters doesn’t come here too often.  With that, maybe they can share some insight with each other (or dare I say it…. Network) and who knows, maybe it will be beneficial for one or both of them………. In any case, the introduction was screaming at me…….

[pilot#476398]

Ah' yes thank you Spike.

 

I am, though, already well aware of employers' prejudice against low time pilots trying to get jobs without first becoming CFIs!

 

By the way have you met avbug?  The two of you also seem to have a great deal in common!   

[Spike]

Ah' yes thank you Spike.

 

I am, though, already well aware of employers' prejudice against low time pilots trying to get jobs without first becoming CFIs!

 

By the way have you met avbug?  The two of you also seem to have a great deal in common!   

 

You’re welcome.

 

Yes, Avbug and I do have a few things in common. Probably the most significant would be; we’ve been employed in this business for years. With that, as longtime participants in this forum, some have found this to be valuable…….

 

Additionally, while attending HeliExpo, one of the presenters said; if I get 50 resumes for a job, 25 will be tossed out because they don’t come close to the minimums or contain a cover letter. Of those 25, about 15 will be tossed due to grammatical errors or erroneous information in order to pad the resume. The remaining 10 will get interviews. Of that 10, 8 will tank due to attitude, appearance or general lack of knowledge.   The 2 remaining are the winners and at that point, it doesn’t matter which one is picked.  Simply put, during the process, the pool of applicants thin themselves out and the strongest applicants always prevail on their own.

 

Employers don’t have prejudice against low-time pilots. Low-time pilots prejudice themselves……  

[pilot#476398]

 

Employers don’t have prejudice against low-time pilots. Low-time pilots prejudice themselves……  

 

When an employer of low time pilots looks you right in the face and says he will never again hire a non CFI because in his experience they have too many bad habits and a tendency towards hot dogging, its hard not to feel a bit of prejudice there.

 

Now sure, I suppose there's something I could have said to piss him off, but in retrospect I can't think of a thing?  This wasn't even a job interview.  Just two guys chewing the fat in between Rotor Safety Challenge sessions at Heliexpo,...and he's the one who brought up jobs not me!

 

...plus he's not the first employer to assume I have bad habits, and that ANY CFI would automatically be a better fit for the job!

 

I'm not saying that EVERY employer of low time pilots out there has a prejudice against non CFIs, but in my experience so far, a number of them do!  

[Spike]

 

When an employer of low time pilots looks you right in the face and says he will never again hire a non CFI because in his experience they have too many bad habits and a tendency towards hot dogging, its hard not to feel a bit of prejudice there.

 

Now sure, I suppose there's something I could have said to piss him off, but in retrospect I can't think of a thing?  This wasn't even a job interview.  Just two guys chewing the fat in between Rotor Safety Challenge sessions at Heliexpo,...and he's the one who brought up jobs not me!

 

...plus he's not the first employer to assume I have bad habits, and that ANY CFI would automatically be a better fit for the job!

 

I'm not saying that EVERY employer of low time pilots out there has a prejudice against non CFIs, but in my experience so far, a number of them do!  

 

By your examples, it’s fair to say, employers don’t necessarily prejudice against non-CFI’s but they often prefer CFI’s over non-CFI’s…… Good info! The folks who want to get ahead in this business should probably heed this advice…. 

[pilot#476398]

Ah' now you get it!

[Spike]

Ah' now you get it!

 

Yeah, I got it back in 1992 when I got my CFI…. Been gainfully employed as a pilot ever since….. 

[aeroscout]

Happy Anniversary r22butters !

[CoffeeAddict]

That's awesome, nearly the same thing has happened to me on several occasions. Once I called about a time building ride and the guy offered up that little pearl point blank unsolicited. Then he went on to berate me about my supposed skill set, actually lack of skills.

 

 

 

 

When an employer of low time pilots looks you right in the face and says he will never again hire a non CFI because in his experience they have too many bad habits and a tendency towards hot dogging, its hard not to feel a bit of prejudice there.

 

Now sure, I suppose there's something I could have said to piss him off, but in retrospect I can't think of a thing?  This wasn't even a job interview.  Just two guys chewing the fat in between Rotor Safety Challenge sessions at Heliexpo,...and he's the one who brought up jobs not me!

 

...plus he's not the first employer to assume I have bad habits, and that ANY CFI would automatically be a better fit for the job!

 

I'm not saying that EVERY employer of low time pilots out there has a prejudice against non CFIs, but in my experience so far, a number of them do!  

[Jaybee]

 

Low-time pilots prejudice themselves……  

 

Just my two cents....

 

based solely on my perception of Pilot#476398, he falls squarely into this category.

[avbug]

When an employer of low time pilots looks you right in the face and says he will never again hire a non CFI because in his experience they have too many bad habits and a tendency towards hot dogging, its hard not to feel a bit of prejudice there.

 

 

Sounds like an employer gave you some golden input and you missed it completely.  

 

Getting one's flight instructor certificate is never a bad idea, unless of course  you're the kind of person who really ought not be in a cockpit with a student, and who can't explain basic flight concepts at an elementary level.  If that person is you, then the employer is quite right to bypass you.

 

If instead you may actually  make a good instructor, then rather than being prejudice, you'd do well to heed to counsel to seek additional training, obtain your instructor certificate, and move on with your budding career.

[pilot#476398]

 

Sounds like an employer gave you some golden input and you missed it completely.  

 

 

Nope!  The message was crystal clear.  He even said the words, "get your CFI"!

 

There was an article I read last Fall about being a CFI that I found very interesting.  To quote part of it;

 

"...some flight schools struggle because their instructors are not professional educators,...flight instructors should have the same abilities and skills as any great teacher, they need to be able to pass along information and wisdom, not just demonstrate skill"

 

This is not me.  In fact when it comes to teaching I am complete rubbish!  If this means that I am useless to the rest of commercial aviation then I guess my retirement job will just have to be the job I'm doing now, while I continue to save up for that helicycle I've always wanted!

[rotormandan]

You're setting your own limitations. If you haven't tried instructing, you don't know you're rubbish. I was surprised to find out how much I enjoyed instructing. Originally I didn't want to instruct as much as you or butters, but after awhile, the pay was the only thing that had me in a hurry to leave.

But if you want to convince yourself that you can't instruct or won't be any good with out even trying and limit your career(possibly stop it) all on your own, I'm sure there's a lot of pilots who will be more then happy that there is 1 less competitor for that 1st job.

Instructing is how you pay your dues in this industry, as backwards as that is. You can try paying your dues with a broom and windex in a hangar, but it will take more then double the time to build any experience. Hey, you may even find, like I did, that once you've paid your dues as an instructor, you now have enough experience to start paying your dues sweeping the hangar and driving a fuel truck for some turbine time. (Just when I thought I was done eating ramen)

If one is not willing to do what it takes to start their career, whether it means not getting qualified by skipping the instrument and/or cfi/cfii, or not wanting to do certain entry level jobs when there are so few out there, then why waste $60-100k plus time and effort just to be almost employable? I guess one can always rely on luck.

Rant over.

Edited by rotormandan, 05 April 2014 - 21:44.

[pilot#476398]

I have tried.  Trust me, no one would benefit from having me as their instructor.  I'm just not cut out for that type of work,...its foolish to think that EVERYONE is!

 

I have flown with CFIs who shouldn't be teaching.  Its a horrible waste of a students hard earned money!

[rotormandan]

How have you tried? Do you have your certificate? (I understood you don't) Have you instructed any more then practice with another instructor?

Just getting a cfi cert keeps your resume out of the trash. Even if you don't use it. (Sort of like the instrument ticket you most likely won't use). I believe anyone who passed both commercial and instrument check rides have the ability to pass a cfi ride.

Most didn't start flying to start teaching. Many never even thought about teaching before and I'd bet most thought, "How the hell can I teach someone how to fly when I just learned myself? No way will I be good at teaching." Then they surprise themselves with the first few students and realize, "Wow, I actually taught someone something and neither of us are dead!" Many find they are actually halfway decent at teaching after a little bit. It's sort of like on the job training. Depending on the school you work for you may not have any initial students to start with anyway.
Really, you don't have to be great at it to be a good instructor. You just have to actually give a sh*t and actually try.

Most of those instructors who shouldn't be instructing really just don't care and don't try at all while waiting to build enough time. If you do try and find after a few months you really are wasting everyones time, then you can quit teaching. But now you will have built some time and might be able to actually get one of those low time tour gigs or some other random low time job that my fall into your lap. Hell, things are more likely to fall into your lap when you're working as a pilot then when you're calling people with an empty resume.

But like I stated before, there are plenty of low time pilots out there who are probably secretly hoping you and others a like won't jump that personal hurdle, will limit themselves all by themselves, and will waste all that training time and $ they've invested so far. It's just one less resume in the way of getting the few low time jobs out there.

These wx days sure make for long posts.

[pilot#476398]

I can't even get through the training to be a CFI,...I'm that rubbish at teaching!

 

Some pilots just don't make good CFIs!  Accept it, move on, and be happy that that's one less pilot you need to compete against!

 

I'm perfectly fine with it!

Edited by pilot#476398, 06 April 2014 - 11:01.