Interested in WOFT

[A-aron]

So as the title says I am interested in applying for WOFT as a civilian. I've read some of the other threads but some of the information is outdated. I am basically trying to get other peoples opinions on how competitive I would be, and anything I should know about going through the application process. Below I'll add some info about me.

 

I am currently a Junior at Embry Riddle in Prescott AZ majoring in Global Security and Intelligence Studies with minors in Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and Helicopter Flight. I spent a little over a year in Army ROTC until it got in the way of flying and grades, I am using my dad's GI Bill and no way in hell was I going to waste it getting crappy grades. I've started flying I currently have my Private with about 110 hours in the R22, and over the next two years I'll be working towards my CFII and possibly receiving NVG and Jet Turbine Transition Training in a 206 over a summer. I am also an eagle scout and assistant scout master with a boy scout troop.

 

I plan on graduating in 2016 and want to finish college so I am unsure of when to apply. I also spoke to a recruiter and he seemed willing to help, just unsure of what exactly to do because from the sounds of it his office has never done a WOFT application. I took the ASVAB in HS and scored an 89 I think. When I was in ROTC my APFT score was around a 210 which sucks and I know that needs to be higher to be competitive. However if I am able to take the APFT at home I'll have no issues after training at altitude.

 

Do ya'll recommend working with a recruiter and talking to them or just trying to do it all on your own? And any tips that you guys can provide would be appreciated.

[Ardo09203]

Really all depends on what you end goal is. What is your desire to be an army aviator? Is it rooted in a desire to fly and serve, or to build hours and get a job as a civilian helo pilot. Is all of the flying your doing now financed or covered by the GI Bill? Since you were in ROTC were you looking to be an officer, or do you think Warrant is the way you'd like to go?

[StockTrader]

So as the title says I am interested in applying for WOFT as a civilian. I've read some of the other threads but some of the information is outdated. I am basically trying to get other peoples opinions on how competitive I would be, and anything I should know about going through the application process. Below I'll add some info about me.

 

I am currently a Junior at Embry Riddle in Prescott AZ majoring in Global Security and Intelligence Studies with minors in Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and Helicopter Flight. I spent a little over a year in Army ROTC until it got in the way of flying and grades, I am using my dad's GI Bill and no way in hell was I going to waste it getting crappy grades. I've started flying I currently have my Private with about 110 hours in the R22, and over the next two years I'll be working towards my CFII and possibly receiving NVG and Jet Turbine Transition Training in a 206 over a summer. I am also an eagle scout and assistant scout master with a boy scout troop.

 

I plan on graduating in 2016 and want to finish college so I am unsure of when to apply. I also spoke to a recruiter and he seemed willing to help, just unsure of what exactly to do because from the sounds of it his office has never done a WOFT application. I took the ASVAB in HS and scored an 89 I think. When I was in ROTC my APFT score was around a 210 which sucks and I know that needs to be higher to be competitive. However if I am able to take the APFT at home I'll have no issues after training at altitude.

 

Do ya'll recommend working with a recruiter and talking to them or just trying to do it all on your own? And any tips that you guys can provide would be appreciated.

 

Read through a lot of these threads. The first couple pages are very up to date. Before we can say if you are competitive you will need to begin assembling your packet. ASVAB GT, SIFT, APFT, Letters of recommendation, all come into play. Personally, I would finish college and make sure that you have a strong GPA. Most competitive applicants coming from the civilian side all have a BA/BS at least.

[Yamer]

FINISH YOUR DEGREE, then get your packet in. IN THAT ORDER...

 

once you start your army career, it is A LOT harder to complete your self education.

 

that's my advice.

[A-aron]

All of my flying is covered by the GI Bill. I am also not as concerned about building hours. I do plan on finishing my degree but was unsure of when to apply. Last thing I want is to get orders for basic while I still have a semester to complete.

[USAR153D]

So as the title says I am interested in applying for WOFT as a civilian. I've read some of the other threads but some of the information is outdated. I am basically trying to get other peoples opinions on how competitive I would be, and anything I should know about going through the application process. Below I'll add some info about me.

 

I am currently a Junior at Embry Riddle in Prescott AZ majoring in Global Security and Intelligence Studies with minors in Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and Helicopter Flight. I spent a little over a year in Army ROTC until it got in the way of flying and grades, I am using my dad's GI Bill and no way in hell was I going to waste it getting crappy grades. I've started flying I currently have my Private with about 110 hours in the R22, and over the next two years I'll be working towards my CFII and possibly receiving NVG and Jet Turbine Transition Training in a 206 over a summer. I am also an eagle scout and assistant scout master with a boy scout troop.

 

I plan on graduating in 2016 and want to finish college so I am unsure of when to apply. I also spoke to a recruiter and he seemed willing to help, just unsure of what exactly to do because from the sounds of it his office has never done a WOFT application. I took the ASVAB in HS and scored an 89 I think. When I was in ROTC my APFT score was around a 210 which sucks and I know that needs to be higher to be competitive. However if I am able to take the APFT at home I'll have no issues after training at altitude.

 

Do ya'll recommend working with a recruiter and talking to them or just trying to do it all on your own? And any tips that you guys can provide would be appreciated.

As a civilian, you don't have a choice but to work with a recruiter at least when it comes to scheduling things such as the SIFT, ASVAB (if you need to boost your GT score), Flight Physical, MEPS physical etc. Whether or not it is a bit premature, that's up to you. In my opinion, you could at least work on studying for and taking the SIFT as well as getting your PT where it needs to be in order to be competitive. Also, come up with a game plan on who you're going to score some LOR's from. Sounds like you've got time on your side which is a luxury not all of us have. Just my .02

[Joe_P148]

If you do plan on joining DO NOT WASTE GI bill money on 206 and NVG time it will not be worth it unless you are going civilian side and even then the civilian guys don't recommend it unless you have 1500-2000 + TT. Good luck!

[Velocity173]

Agree with Joe. This is the usual 141 school pushing 206 and NVG training to get extra money and allowing their instructors to build NVG / turbine time because they weren't prior military.

 

You're going to get those quals in the military. What's more important is the additional experience that goes with them if you're looking at flying civilian when you get out. I suppose the 206 and NVG stuff might help you the first couple days in contact training at Rucker but that's about it.

[A-aron]

Well from what I can tell the TH-67 is a 206, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt showing up already familiar with the aircraft would hurt. I do need to retake the ASVAB since the scores are over two years old. I do want to try and have a recruiter get me my old score, I'm pretty sure I got an 89 on it but have no idea what my GT score was.

 

Two things I am concerned about is I used to take ADHD meds at least 7 years ago and I also have a bicuspid aortic valve. The valve is a fairly common thing all the FAA had me so was see a cardiologist and then they gave me my first class medical. I briefly looked at the army regs regarding the heart and I don't think I'll have any issues because everything is fine and from the looks of it I won't need any sorry if waiver but wasn't sure if anyone had any input on the medical exams.

 

I've been thinking about the LORs some and one thing I'm concerned about is not having any from army officers. I've been considering trying to PT some with ROTC at school and if I do I might be able to get a LOR from them. Otherwise I'm looking at probably a school dean, scoutmaster and others. I do have some time to get all this put together.

[Joe_P148]

Your motivation for flight training is great and will be noteworthy. However, your prior flight experience is not going to help you that much through flight school. You can expect everything you have learned in flight training to be retaught the Army's way with the exception of maybe the NAS. You paying for 206 time is like someone getting shooting instruction before leaving for basic training. You may know how to shoot, but you don't know the Army's way of shooting, they will break you down and build you up the way they want. I think your motivation is great, but that GI Bill would be better spent on masters level classes than on flight training. You have to remember Army flight school is taught with the goal of teaching people the basics from scratch. Trust me, you're not getting any leg up by getting turbine time. PT is good, just don't let the ROTC guys rope you into group PT or worse, try to get you to go to OCS. Start trying to build Army contacts as those folks will be your money makers as far as LORs are concernd.

[A-aron]

I'll keep that in mind regarding the 206. However I am still slightly inclined to get that turbine transition training. Basically I'm attending ERAU in Prescott, but Dodge City Community College is doing all the approval for my GI Bill benefits because of the limits on private schools. Right now if I stay out at school for the summer burning through GI Bill doing CFI stuff, at least doing Turbine and NVG will bring me up to full time status for full BAH. I am trying to avoid staying out there for the summer though, really want to do an internship and get more work experience.

 

When I was still in ROTC we occasionally did workouts like the ones you say to avoid, the nice thing is though, if I'm there to just PT I can do what I want and look at the schedule to know what days to avoid since I don't have to be there. XD

[Ardo09203]

Do what you want with the GI funds, after all it is YOUR money. However, keep in mind that Joe and Velocity are both very experienced Army aviators, not just WOFT hopefuls, and they know what they are talking about. If they say it's not worth it, then it's not worth it. In the Army you will get Commercial-Instrument Rated-Multi Engine-Turbine Time, FOR FREE. So if I were you, I'd get the private, and maybe even the instrument rating, then finish my degree ASAP. Those two won't really give you a leg up per se, but should help you pick up on what is being taught a little quicker.

 

Just like the shooting analogy previously used. I own a gun shop, and shoot competition with an AR on a regular basis. I'm actually worried that I wont do as well as some of the others who have never shot just because they will learn the "Army way" from scratch. I on the other hand have years and years of what the Army calls bad habits.

[A-aron]

Well the GI Bill is measured in days for me so the way I see it is if I'm actually stuck at school for the summer and burning through it, then why not. I understand that I will relearn all the flight training but at this point I'm basically set to graduate May 2016 and there isn't really anything I can do to push it up.

[Yamer]

what is your age? did i miss that in your posts...

[A-aron]

what is your age? did i miss that in your posts...

20

[Yamer]

finish your degree, get your civilian ratings (because WOFT is NOT a garaunteed thing) as a back up plan to WOFT, then apply and work on your packet... if it were me doing it.

 

you have tons of time, use it wisely.

 

unfortunately the advice listed on forums are great for giving you an idea but that's about it. Youre going to have to do the leg work and be the adult and make your own decisions for your career and life that lay ahead. there will be no RIGHT answer on here that you are looking for.

[apacheguy]

 

 

Just like the shooting analogy previously used. I own a gun shop, and shoot competition with an AR on a regular basis. I'm actually worried that I wont do as well as some of the others who have never shot just because they will learn the "Army way" from scratch. I on the other hand have years and years of what the Army calls bad habits.

 

I promise you, if you have ever touched an AR-15 before you join the army, you'll probably shoot expert on a pop-up range. You'll definitely shoot expert on the alternate qual (paper target). Experience helps. Even while deployed to Iraq for a year, about 10% of my battalion couldn't qualify on the paper targets and we had literally unlimited ammo and copious range time with which to practice. We had a lot of inner city soldiers who'd never shot before they joined up.

 

The M9 is even easier to qualify with than the rifle/carbine is.

 

The Army doesn't really teach shooting like the Marines do. We just pray and spray.

[apacheguy]

I've been thinking about the LORs some and one thing I'm concerned about is not having any from army officers. I've been considering trying to PT some with ROTC at school and if I do I might be able to get a LOR from them. Otherwise I'm looking at probably a school dean, scoutmaster and others. I do have some time to get all this put together.

 

Try working your Boy Scout connections to find some officers to solicit LOR's from. I'd imagine there's some high ranking national guard or retired officers in the area associated with the BSA.

[Lindsey]

 

I promise you, if you have ever touched an AR-15 before you join the army, you'll probably shoot expert on a pop-up range. You'll definitely shoot expert on the alternate qual (paper target). Experience helps. Even while deployed to Iraq for a year, about 10% of my battalion couldn't qualify on the paper targets and we had literally unlimited ammo and copious range time with which to practice. We had a lot of inner city soldiers who'd never shot before they joined up.

 

The M9 is even easier to qualify with than the rifle/carbine is.

 

The Army doesn't really teach shooting like the Marines do. We just pray and spray.

I don't know...I felt the Army did an excellent job teaching us how to shoot. I've never shot before in my life. I'm also right handed. I show up to Basic, find out I'm left eye dominant, and my Drill Sergeant told me I'm going to shoot left-handed--no debate, obviously. Talk about stressful. And guess what? Ended up shooting expert. We spent an extraordinary amount of time on basic shooting fundamentals and for me it paid off. Of course, to each his (her) own.

[Creep0321]

It goes with anything, your instructor is going to impact how much you learn just as much as the actual course of instruction. As for the whole left eye/right eye dominant thing, it depends on how quickly you can adapt your motor skills, for me it is easier to shoot a carbine right handed as well as a pistol even though I am left eye dominant, I use my right eye to shoot my M4, left eye for my .45, on a long gun, in the prone, I will shoot left handed with my left eye.

[akscott60]

Being prepared is always a good thing. Maybe I am biased, but I had a ton of flight time before showing up to Rucker and also shot professionally. Surprise surprise, I did well at both.

 

But blowing wads of cash on a 206 is a bit folly. Its not your go-to-war aircraft, and you will have plenty of time to get used to it.

[apacheguy]

I don't know...I felt the Army did an excellent job teaching us how to shoot. I've never shot before in my life. I'm also right handed. I show up to Basic, find out I'm left eye dominant, and my Drill Sergeant told me I'm going to shoot left-handed--no debate, obviously. Talk about stressful. And guess what? Ended up shooting expert. We spent an extraordinary amount of time on basic shooting fundamentals and for me it paid off. Of course, to each his (her) own.

Congrats on the Expert. You're now qualified to walk the streets of Baghdad at midnight with an M4 since you'll never get any more small arms training from the Army. Still feeling confident?

[akscott60]

Army small arms instruction for the "big army" is f*cking garbage.

[Lindsey]

Army small arms instruction for the "big army" is f*cking garbage.

That's too bad. :-/

[Joe_P148]

I think if you guys were serving in a combat arms branch your perception of marksmanship training may be a little different. Here we are, a bunch of pilots whining about not shooting enough. The infantry on the other hand, is whining about always being in the field and the range. Obviously my analogy has derailed this topic.