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Senate stops Apache/Blackhawk swap


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You can mount guns on a turd too but it's not a good scout. The Lakota is a good bird for IFR flight and DV transport but it can't hang in the field. There just aren't enough fixes. The AH-6 is the right way to go.

I'm with you on that but it ain't gonna happen. The big army will never transition to the little bird.

 

Explain to me how the EC145 is worse than the B206 for a scout platform, other than size and noise signature.

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The army rushed out to buy the EC145 off the shelf so they got the civilian version. I could list problems all day long but I need to run so I'll keep it short. The 58 in all versions was at least hardened to being in the field. It's a robust aircraft compared to the Lakota. We replaced so many windscreens after they were scratched by a few dust landings. The sliding side doors used to fall off the tracks constantly; I actually had to hammer a door back into place with a rock and my multi-pliers once so we could fly home. The inlet filter system is an expensive calamity. The instrument panel gets trashed after a few dust landings and you can't use the buttons after they get gummed up with sand. I saw a heavy soldier break one of the skid steps once climbing into the aircraft. One kid put his M4 muzzle down on the floor and punched a hole in the floor.

 

I could go on and on, it's a great aircraft but just not robust enough for army work.

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The army rushed out to buy the EC145 off the shelf so they got the civilian version. I could list problems all day long but I need to run so I'll keep it short. The 58 in all versions was at least hardened to being in the field. It's a robust aircraft compared to the Lakota. We replaced so many windscreens after they were scratched by a few dust landings. The sliding side doors used to fall off the tracks constantly; I actually had to hammer a door back into place with a rock and my multi-pliers once so we could fly home. The inlet filter system is an expensive calamity. The instrument panel gets trashed after a few dust landings and you can't use the buttons after they get gummed up with sand. I saw a heavy soldier break one of the skid steps once climbing into the aircraft. One kid put his M4 muzzle down on the floor and punched a hole in the floor.

 

I could go on and on, it's a great aircraft but just not robust enough for army work.

 

 

That will happen on the floor of a blackhawk just as easily. Most of the things you describe apply to the UH-60 as well. We had a UH-60 lose a door stop and the whole door flew off in flight. Avionics in general do not like sand and dust and tend to not operate well in those environments. Even the C-12V has buttons sticking in it after being deployed and we don't land in dust, it just residual dust from crew and passengers.

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I have to agree with Apacheguy.

 

I absolutely love flying the -72. Heck I was even one of the biggest fans of strapping some 19 shot rocket pods on the side of them when I first started flying them. After a couple hundred hours in them I changed my mind.

 

He is dead on, they're a great IFR, hard stand to hard stand bird. Very good at ISR type work too in the MEP configuration.

 

The whole low speed, right turn deal and lack of hardening (control cables, fuel cells, IR suppression etc) make it unacceptable IMHO. Yeah, you could re-route the flex-ball cables or cover them- weight and complexity added. Then you'd have to strap on IR supressors, then harden the fuel cells, then add ASE (dated term I know...) equipment; still more weight. And you haven't even started adding weight for the weapons and visionics systems. Before you finish, you'll be right where you were with the 58D.

 

Maybe the EC-145T2 has enough added power to compensate. I don't have the info on that bird. I did read that some organization in europe (Germany?) was buying a spec ops (militarized) versions of either the -135 or -145. I'd like to see how they did it.

 

Why not get the OH-6 series, and then apply all the lessons learned and AED approved 'doo-dads' they developed for the 160th over the last couple decades. You'd also be building a huge reservoir of potential selectee's for 160th little birds. I know, wishful thinking.

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Hotdogs, you are right. The next "full spectrum war" will be more than likely using fixed wings but the unconventional SOF forces will still have a significant requirement for rotary. If you ask me, that's where the emphasis will be made, on special operations helicopters who will fly out of the spotlight and less in the media's attention.

 

That's the thought in TF, according to the recruiter that was at my WOAC. I suspect it's got a hefty bit of truth to it. (Both SOF ground, and aviation are where it's at.)

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