Candid Feedback

[Sasquatch]

Let’s cut the bullshit… shoot straight with me. Who’s been selected with waivers? Don't gloss over just yet.

 

For those of you who have been selected, congratulations. For those of you who are waiting, good luck.

 

I fully understand that waivers are the exception, not the norm; but if we run the numbers, what is the percentage of those selected with them? In the last few years, it’s about 10% or less, depending on the type of waiver. I also understand that these turbulent times wax and wane and will soon change yet again; this is more than a simple frisson.

 

Presently, the selection body of the Corps of Warrant Officers disenfranchises me, and I honestly feel as though they are missing some of the best candidates because of juvenile mistakes made in the distant past by those who aspire for greatness. These candidates don't even make it to the board for consideration, regardless of the conclusion of the waiver decision.

 

Here’s the brutal truth: I pulled my head out of my ass in 2006 and started being the best Soldier I knew how to be because I finally had a goal—a driving force in my life—to be a pilot in the Army. Everything I had done in the past was nondescript, and there was [literally] a new plan and purpose for everything to come in my future. My transgressions came long before my days serving our nation, and I have learned my lesson many times over. The worst part of it is that the Army’s stance is to “get the help you need,” but then holds it against you when you finally get help. This is what I get for being honest…

 

I am looking for insight from the most veteran of you, from those who have served on selection boards, those who have served on advisory panels, etc. I’m not looking for answers. I am seeking guidance on how to become one of the best Soldiers, Warrant Officers, and Army Aviators. I am a firm believer in building a name for myself, and have rarely reached out for any form of help. I have posted threads that have garnered 0 results; that’s ok. I will continue my plight regardless of those unwilling to help me.

[electron_si]

I'm not a selection member nor do I have any input on any boards but I will tell you this. For every sought after profession, field, or award, there are a select group of applicants that will meet every criteria. For those few individuals, they will very rarely have to cross their fingers, and hope, because they know they are already "best qualified".

 

For those of us that made mistakes early on, part of those mistakes are realizing the long term implications of our actions. I was one of the waivered selectees but hard work, and TIMING ended up being on my side when I was selected. The army was taking lots of waivers, and I got lucky. People in front of and behind me weren't as lucky. It worked out for me, but it hasn't always and it might not later in life.

 

Unfortunately that's the nature of life and of the Army. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but if you do everything you can and you still don't make it, then you weren't in the right place at the right time. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's just the way it is. Hind sight is 20/20 and stuff does come back to bite you in the ass in ways you didn't expect.

 

Best of luck.

[Joe_P148]

I understand your frustrated with the selection process, hell, I've been in for 12 years and I'm still frustrated with the process. Time and time again we see the wrong people selected and show up to our formations, with poor attitudes, then get the boot when we realize they are a huge turd.

 

How many times have you submitted your packet?

 

How bad is this infraction that happend in your life?

 

What marketable skills do you have to offer the Army?

 

You have to realize your trying to submit a packet during a period of major decline in our numbers. We are looking at cutting 3 combat brigades in the next few years and we have removed an entire airframe from our aresenal. As it stands now, we have fully qualified combat proven oh-58 pilots who are struggling to find assignments. So your timing, as electron put it, is bad.

 

My suggestion to you is this.

 

1. Continue to submit your packet, the board acknowledges persistent applicants.

 

2. Continue working on you packet at refining it, better LORs, school, resume, ect...

 

3. Plan for the future, have a contingency plan for if you don't get picked up. Mabye work on a degree, mabye a masters. Be prepared to execute a different plan if this doesn't workout.

 

Being an Army pilot isn't everything dude, if I could do it over again I would have stayed in college, finished an MBA and found an easy business Job somewhere. That being said, I've always appreciated the job I've had but I have never been fully commuted on staying in. You have got to plan for the future, and have a back up plan.

[UH60L-IP]

Here are a few good reasons why you might have had issues getting selected and why you might in the future.

 

1- We are looking at taking on fewer pilots, not more. We don't have to relax our standards to make the numbers. You may not look at it as relaxing the standards, but that is the definition of a waiver.

 

2- If there are fully qualified candidates who don't need a waiver and still aren't getting selected, why should you get selected with a waiver?

 

3- You started cleaning up your act in 2006. Good for you. I am therefore going to guess you have been in about 10 years. Should you get selected we are looking at 2 years of training before you are just basically qualified to do your job. The time you have left until retirement doesn't necessarily provide for a good rate of return on investment-a huge investment. However keeping you in your current job will probably pay dividends. I know. You say, "I've done my time and I deserve it." Maybe true. But flight school is not a reward. It is a cost/benefit analysis to the Army.

 

4- I don't know the strength of your packet, but with a waiver I do know that you have to not only be good enough to beat out the other candidates but good enough to beat out the other candidates and the reason for your waiver. That is not exactly easy right now considering the quality of candidates you already have to beat to get selected.

 

5- You have to beat your past and get chosen with a waiver. You have to beat good candidates who don't have waivers. You then have to prove that you should be chosen over those candidates even though the Army will likely get only half the years of flying out of you than the other candidates.

 

6- You stated in August 2013 that you want this more than the Army needs you. So you already know all this.

 

You might get selected. I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer but you asked for candid thoughts. The Army will always need good pilots. Sometimes we look at ourselves with rose colored glasses though. But when viewed through the eyes of another we may not be the right choice.

[UH60L-IP]

I'll answer publicly a couple of questions I got via PM. I am responding above to an apparent moral waiver. Medical waivers are not derogatory in and of themselves. They show that something that would otherwise be an issue is not an issue. Once granted they remain valid and therefore really aren't discriminatory.

[Lindsey]

If they won't take you now, they won't take you now. The best thing you can do is to continue building up your packet (courses, education, awards, LORs, networking, resume, etc) so that when we do finally begin accepting waivers again you'll be at the top of the stack with a packet they can't refuse. Getting upset with big green right now because it's "not fair" isn't going to get you anywhere. Unless you are closing in on the age limit, relax a little, accept that your mistakes will follow you everywhere, and continue driving on. Like others have said, there are plenty of applicants who don't require waivers so timing is just not in your favor. Your time will come--be prepared.

 

-from the girl who got in four years after first starting a packet

[Flying Pig]

^^^^^Yeah... but you were only 14 when you started applying.

[Lindsey]

^^^^^Yeah... but you were only 14 when you started applying.

 

Oh come on! Hahaha

[stearmann4]

Sasquatch,

 

If you want the no BS truth here it is; it is absolutely commendable that you changed the course of your career and your life to pursue your goals. However, the bottom line is that your competing peers made the conscious decision somewhere in their lives to not participate in behaviors that they might someday have to explain. Whether intentional or by accident, they weren't carrying the same 'baggage" when their applications went in front of the board.

 

Selection is a highly impersonal process, and you are quite literally a "number". Board members are instructed to select "most or best qualified" based on the Army's needs during a given FY with an emphasis on "junior-most qualified". If two packets are identical, the Army wants the one with the least AFS (Active Federal Service) to get more return from the WO on their investment. Understand clearly that the Army is a corporation (however dysfunctional), and the decisions that are made are purely business decisions. Meaning, the Army is going to select the very best candidate presented to them based on a clearly defined set of criteria dictated to the board members. Its not personal, nor is it always equitable, but the Army gets what it requires out of the process. Bottom line; you were probably equal to your peers in every aspect except whatever actions required a waiver. Some candidates had perfect packets except they were 5 points lower on their SIFT or PFT and weren't selected, is that unfair also? As Joe_P148 stated, we may not actually get the best aviators from the selection process, some go on to greatness, some never progress and are a waste of Army resources. Unfortunately, all that matters is what is presented on paper to the board, there's no way to quantify the heart or potential of a candidate, or how many obstacles he/she may have had to overcome to get to that point.

 

You have two directions to take this; you can continue to build your resume', make preparations and submit for the next, and every subsequent board you're allowed which to me speaks volumes of your tenacity and commitment to your goals. Or, you can blame it on the Army as political, biased, and unfair and quit. Unfortunately you're applying during a timeframe in which waivers are being used as discretionary criteria to shape the selection process. Five years ago you'd probably be in WOC school right now.

 

So there's the cold, hard truth. As I tell many aspiring teenagers (including my own) that actions have consequences, maybe not now, but at some time the bill becomes due. If you believe you've paid your dues, then don't waste the effort by quitting. You quit once and you'll always be a quitter. Lastly, a couple board members frequent this forum, filtering your rants before one hits "post" can potentially be a career saver. The internet isn't anonymous as you'd think.

 

Mike-

[USCav19D]

Sasquatch,

 

If two packets are identical, the Army wants the one with the least AFS (Active Federal Service) to get more return from the WO on their investment.

 

So are you saying that being prior service is harmful to a WOFT packet? sh*t, I'll burn every copy of my DD214 I can find. Change my name, my SSN...

 

Or is it just that they want a guy they can get 20 years out of as a WO, and not just the time he has left until retirement?

[Joe_P148]

So are you saying that being prior service is harmful to a WOFT packet? sh*t, I'll burn every copy of my DD214 I can find. Change my name, my SSN...

 

Or is it just that they want a guy they can get 20 years out of as a WO, and not just the time he has left until retirement?

Return on Investment

 

Old E7s don't have a lot of potential from the Army's perspective

[USCav19D]

Return on Investment

 

Old E7s don't have a lot of potential from the Army's perspective

Makes sense. I just hope they see the difference between a young E5 and an old E7!

[Creep0321]

I don't think age is so much the factor (granted compared parties are both under 33), as much as AFS time. Where all other things equal, an E-5 with 10 years is less desirable then an E-6 with 7 years.

[USCav19D]

I don't think age is so much the factor (granted compared parties are both under 33), as much as AFS time. Where all other things equal, an E-5 with 10 years is less desirable then an E-6 with 7 years.

If you've been an E5 for 10 years in my MOS, you probably won't be long for the Army... But I get what you're saying. Thanks for the insight.

[goodfx]

Step One: Spend hours writing waiver requests, ensuring that the approval authority will have no doubt as to your rehabilitation, zero chance of recidivism, and how the incident strengthened you despite the fact that you likely find the fact that it even occurred embarrassing. Mean what you say and say what you mean. Quantifiable data showing full rehabilitation is what you need.

 

Step two: Apply for selection no matter what you see or hear.

 

It's literally that easy. And if you don't get selected, kick ass for a year, regroup, and document said ass kicking in follow up packet. Or just quit and complain about it online. It's your career man.

[Sasquatch]

electron_si, Joe_P148, UH60L-IP, Lindsey, goodfx, and stearmann4,

Thank you to each one of you for your insights. I fully understand each of your points. Your words will not be lost on me as I continue in my endeavor. As many of you have stated, my timing is off during this ebb and flow of selection. I will continue regardless. For Joe, I have made the mistake of putting all my eggs in this basket, only to have them all broken at once; I have developed viable COAs as contingencies. For Mike, I value your thoughts the most because I view you as a patriarch of sorts for these forums.

I hope to continue to read further insights from other members.

[stearmann4]

Sasquatch, my pleasure. As for being a patriarch...it has the inference of being old. I guess if the shoe fits. Stick to your guns and remember you have to sift through and tolerate a hundred folks that are spring loaded to telling you it can't be done, just to find the one who will tell you yes. However, you only need ONE person that will say yes.

 

I anticipate within the next 2 boards you will probably start to see the selection criteria changing to reflect the hundreds, if not thousands of service members we've let go. Be ready to submit your application again.

 

Mike-

[nightmare515]

I got PDQ'd at MEPS and sent home without even being able to put up an argument. Went to the Navy and AF recruiters and talked to them and was told "If the Army failed you then you definitely won't pass our medical tests, we are more strict then the Army".

 

Few days later while sitting in my college History class I got a call from my recruiter telling me to come see him ASAP. Somehow he got the PDQ lifted and the rest is history.

 

I believe a lot of this waiver stuff is based on timing, who you know, and what sort of mood the medical personnel are in that day. I watched guys take the blood pressure test and fail one time and get sent packing by a medic. I watched other guys allowed to literally sit there on the machine and get their blood pressure read UNTIL they passed, even if it took 3 hours and them using multiple different machines, laying down, turning the lights off, having a nurse massage them and hold their hand etc.

 

A lot of this stuff isn't as cut and dry as people think. SOME medics really will try to help you. Some really do seem like they hate you and are gunning for you to fail.