Bootcamp Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) For you flight school owners out there - If you had the option of equipping your R44 with a full instrument panel, a cargo hook, or buying a set of NVGs; all of which would be used to incorporate into a training program, which would you choose and why? Edited January 28, 2015 by Bootcamp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't own a helicopter flight school, but an IFR panel and a hook would be the most beneficial. I know businesses are out to make money, but NVG courses are about as worthless as turbine transitions. If I'm working for an NVG operation, they will have helicopters to check me out in. At least an IFR panel, you can use it for training, and a hook... well, you can actually work with a 44 or teach someone to long line. The NVG stuff, unless you have a job that you will go back to, you'll just end up going non-current. Heck, I cant even get the silly FAA to do my NVG IP endorsement and Im at almost 1000hrs of NVG time. A couple schools Ive found who will do it want me to sell my children to pay for their course thats taught by some kid who hasn't flown on NVGs outside of his home airport. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 IFR panel and a hook, no question about it. Do both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnr032 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I second everything Flying Piggy said. Do the instrument panel first, then if you still have any money to spend do the hook. You are also going to need an approved NVG compatible cockpit in order to do FAA approved NVG training. Depending on your aircraft and the quality of lighting you desire, that will be anywhere from $20K- $75K. Then there are helmets, mounts, flashlights, inspections, etc, etc, etc. There is way more involved with establishing an NVG program besides just, "buying a set of NVG's." The NVG's are the cheapest part of the deal. BTW, I am not a flight school owner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ospreydriver Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Flying Pig, what is the FAA asking for to get the NVG IP endorsement? I've been a military Night Systems Instructor in two aircraft, and apparently there is no direct mil comp on that, as there was for CFI and CFII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm a little unclear about what they want. I've been told that if you are a CFI who has an NVG endoresment, then you already qualify, you just need an NVG IP to sign you off. But I can't find an NVG IP. Any of the schools around want thousands of dollars and a checkride for one but those seem to be programs they are selling to people, not anything that is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Guys, You find some guidance from Randy Rowles. randyrowlesdpe@gmail.com Mike Edited January 31, 2015 by Mikemv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Why the heck is this NVG thing such an obscure animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Flying Pig, what is the FAA asking for to get the NVG IP endorsement? I've been a military Night Systems Instructor in two aircraft, and apparently there is no direct mil comp on that, as there was for CFI and CFII. c. Policy for Flight Instructor Requirements for NVG Qualifications. Per the new § 61.195(k), a flight instructor authorized to conduct NVG training and endorsements must:(1) Hold the appropriate pilot and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating;(2) If appropriate, hold a type rating on his or her pilot certificate for the aircraft that the NVG training is given in;(3) Be PIC qualified for NVG operations, in accordance with § 61.31(k);(4) Have logged 100 NVG operations as the sole manipulator of the controls;(5) Have logged 20 NVG operations as the sole manipulator of the controls in the category and class, and type of aircraft, if aircraft class and type is appropriate, that the training will be given in;(6) Be qualified to act as PIC in NVG operations under § 61.57(f) or (g); and(7) Have a logbook endorsement from an FAA ASI, or an FAA-authorized individual to provide that logbook endorsement, that states the FAA authorizes the flight instructor to perform the NVG PIC qualification and recent flight experience requirements under § 61.31(k) and § 61.57(f) and (g).(a) Per § 61.195(k)(7), an FAA ASI or an FAA authorized individual is permitted to sign the logbook of a flight instructor to authorize a flight instructor to conduct NVG PIC qualification and recent flight experience training. It is expected that the FAA ASI and FAA-authorized individual have met the requirements of § 61.31(k)(3) and are NVG current in accordance with § 61.57(f) or (g).( However, depending on the qualifications and experience levels of our ASIs in the FSDOs and Regional Offices, we may have to consider “best qualified” criteria in selecting ASIs to perform this endorsement job assignment. Since this is a new program, AFS-810 is available for consultations with our FSDOs and Regional Offices on this subject matter. Information at www.faa.gov search in FSIMS 8900.2 CHG 1, page 7-56 and 7-57 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) As a student I'd want the instrument panel because after training I'd get an actual rating,...but make it a good full setup with an HSI and a VOR, I hate when there's just one! As an owner I'd only go with the hook or NVGs if I either was set up for VA funding or I had some contracts set up where I'd actually be using them for commercial work, or doing that type of specific training for a commercial operator. Edited January 31, 2015 by eagle5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagMan Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Put a hook on it and some external cargo racks and lease it out to Alaska. Get her making some money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-aron Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 G500H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (7) Have a logbook endorsement from an FAA ASI, or an FAA-authorized individual to provide that logbook endorsement, that states the FAA authorizes the flight instructor to perform the NVG PIC qualification and recent flight experience requirements under § 61.31(k) and § 61.57(f) and (g).(a) Per § 61.195(k)(7), an FAA ASI or an FAA authorized individual is permitted to sign the logbook of a flight instructor to authorize a flight instructor to conduct NVG PIC qualification and recent flight experience training. It is expected that the FAA ASI and FAA-authorized individual have met the requirements of § 61.31(k)(3) and are NVG current in accordance with § 61.57(f) or (g). That's the guy Im looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) As a student I'd want the instrument panel because after training I'd get an actual rating,...but make it a good full setup with an HSI and a VOR, I hate when there's just one! As an owner I'd only go with the hook or NVGs if I either was set up for VA funding or I had some contracts set up where I'd actually be using them for commercial work, or doing that type of specific training for a commercial operator.Actually, if I was doing any serious NVG flying, I would want an IFR panel even if the helicopter was not certified for IFR. My NVGs have shut down on me before out over the swamps....and it wasn't fun. I turned back on the heading that I knew the airport was and did basic instrument attitude flying for about 10 minutes before I got back to a position where the city lights on the horizon made any sense. Edited January 31, 2015 by Flying Pig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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