So it begins...

[Hurri-Kane]

We all knew this attempted halt to Post 9/11 GI Bill flight training funding was coming!!! Here it is.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

STOP H.R. 476

Protect Veterans Post 9/11 GI Bill Benefits

 

 

 

1,000's of Veterans Will Be Forced Out of Their Current College Programs

 

 

House Bill H.R. 476 Discriminates Against Veterans

Bill will eliminate the opportunity for Veterans to become professional pilots

 

Bill H.R. 476 discriminates against Veterans wishing to use their benefits to become professional pilots.

 

Don't be fooled by its name, House Bill H.R. 476 titled: "GI Bill Education Quality Enhancement Act of 2015" will eliminate the opportunity for Veterans to become professional pilots after serving their Country and earning their Post 9/11 GI Bill Benefits.

 

If passed, H.R. 476 "Prohibits VA from including flight training fees in the in-state tuition and fees at public institutions of higher education (IHEs) that are covered by post-9/11 veterans' educational assistance."

 

Review the Bill here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/476

 

Sign the Petition here: http://www.petition2congress.com/17588/protect-veteran-educational-benefits-stop-hr-476/

 

This bill places an immediate CAP on the ANNUAL, TOTAL tuition & fees covered by the Post 9/11 GI Bill by including PUBLIC as well as private colleges in the annual CAP!

 

These effects are immediate and will apply to ALL current and FUTURE Veterans who wish to use their earned benefits to become professional pilots. Moreover, Veterans currently enrolled in Flight Training will lose their funding.

[adam32]

Good. There's no need for $300,000 plus training when $70,000 will do the same thing. Especially when there's a 60%+ drop out rate since they only wanted to do it because it's "cool".

[eagle5]

I guess this means Guidance will have to go back to just 3 helicopters (and it probably won't be those 3 66s). As for Upper Limit, hopefully they'll go the way of Silver State,...with a big class action lawsuit ta boot!

[Carpenter]

OBUMMER, What's going to happen to the pilot shortage?

MAYBE some of the previously trained pilots from 10 years ago can get jobs now like R22 Butters and others.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Carpenter

[Joe_P148]

OBUMMER, What's going to happen to the pilot shortage?

MAYBE some of the previously trained pilots from 10 years ago can get jobs now like R22 Butters and others.

So your justifying this because people haven't been able to find jobs?

[eagle5]

So your justifying this because people haven't been able to find jobs?

At Upper Limit 12 vets charged the VA $500k each for their training, that's EACH, not total. That's $6,000,000 for just 12 vets.

 

$6,000,000 should have trained 100 vets from 0-200 hours making them employable CFIIs, instead we got just 12!

 

That's what justifies this!

[adam32]

At Upper Limit 12 vets charged the VA $500k each for their training, that's EACH, not total. That's $6,000,000 for just 12 vets.

 

$6,000,000 should have trained 100 vets from 0-200 hours making them employable CFIIs, instead we got just 12!

 

That's what justifies this!

How many out of those 12 are working in the Industry as pilots? How many are doing something different or getting trained for a different career by the VA?

[Joe_P148]

At Upper Limit 12 vets charged the VA $500k each for their training, that's EACH, not total. That's $6,000,000 for just 12 vets.

 

$6,000,000 should have trained 100 vets from 0-200 hours making them employable CFIIs, instead we got just 12!

 

That's what justifies this!

That's not what he said Eagle.

[eagle5]

That's not what he said Eagle.

No, what he said was an optimistic consequence, while poking fun at the previous scam.

[takefootoff]

It's going mainstream, scandal worthy? Here is a piece from the LA Times.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-me-adv-gibill-20150315-story.html#page=1

[Flying Pig]

ULA is set to bring in $36M this year!? Wow.... and the owner got an award for his commitment to vets Selfless motivation on his part Im sure.

[RagMan]

Get ready for a slew of turbine helicopters that will soon be on the market for sale

[helonorth]

From the LA Times:

Total payments to the colleges on his behalf have exceeded $600,000, including about $190,000 for three electives that provided a total of 79 hours in the air, according to Kawamura.

 

Greed killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.

[Flying Pig]

Wow....what the heck was he flying for $2400 an hour?

[adam32]

Wow....what the heck was he flying for $2400 an hour?

 

 

Helicycle.

[crashed_05]

This was a long time coming. It only takes a few greedy flight schools taking advantage of the system to ruin it for every vet out there.

[eagle5]

We had Silver State, the vets have Upper Limit...I wonder what the next scam will look like?

[Sailor117]

I joined the military in 2010 with the intent to earn money for flight school. Hell i even joined navy aviation just so i could be closer to aircraft while I was serving. After leaving the service I chose to wait for Mauna Loa to get VA approval due to the owner Ben Fousts dedication to his program, all the amazing things i heard and my gut feeling that something just wasnt right about these other schools (ULA and Guidance) that shoved advertising down my throat and the BIG promises they frequently told me. I used every penny I had saved to relocated to hawaii expecting to recieve a training, housing allowance after ML gave me the green light to come on over but month after month I was told "the approval was almost there just a little bit longer". No joy and no hard feelings. I started working two jobs but because i wasnt from the island they were under the table and far below minimum wage. Even while averaging 18 hours and pawning clothes and what little furniture i had i found myself homeless and in a shelter where i saved enough to get a plane ride back to san antonio. I chose to continue working while Mauna Loa worked toward approval rather than feed what i felt was an embarassing blemish in the helo community. My gut feeling was right but i had no idea how right it was. March 20th i recieved word that Alamo helicopters right here in san antonio would gladly accept me for their next class. I was ecstatic to be able to just touch a helicopter agian while waiting for Mauna Loa! Later that night i read in horror the article from LA times. Congress would stop the bleeding with an anvil as they rightfully should! 500K for training???? I agree something needs to be done but i knew it would be swift, harsh and take away the privilege of learning to fly on the GI Bill. After years of hard work and crawling my way through sh!t creek to be able to fly; I was terrified at the idea that a few greedy individuals would take this way from me. My career was highjacked before it even started. I blame the schools, i blame the veterans who chose to abuse the program to fly because "hey its cool and its not my money". While others lined their pockets with millions I lost something i felt i had achieved. At this point my love for aviation wont stop my from finding the 80K to attend school i just wish i hadnt lost it in the first place....

 

You fellas know this field way better than I do if my train of thought is off let me know. Any advice would be great guys i could really use it.

[adam32]

You won't lose it. It just won't be an endless supply of money anymore.

[eagle5]

I tried to make a go at Hawaii once. Bought a car (20 yr old Honda) and slept in it because I couldn't afford an apartment...or room for that matter! This was before I was a pilot so I can't say how Mauna Loa's cfis do it, but I suspect that they all live together in a small one room shack, and share packets of Ramen 3 times a day,...damn Hawaii's expensive!

 

You want my advice, go back to the Navy. A friend of mine retired a couple of years ago after doing 20 and is sitting pretty on an 80k job (because of the training he got in the service) with a nice cushy pension. He's currently using his benefits to get a BS which will turn that 80k job into six figures!

 

But I'm sure he could use it to become a pilot if he were interested... and that pension would make the journey a lot easier!

 

Just go back in, get your Private Rating on your own and do the rest later.

 

What's the hurry, its not like the helicopter industry needs us?

[Whiteshadow]

Sailor117, sounds like you haven't used any of your GI Bill yet right? My thought is that any changes aren't going to be overnight. It's the government remember? I think you should look into one of the many honest schools around the country who are doing it right. Enroll in one as soon as possible. My hope is that anyone who is enrolled will be grandfathered in with whatever the VA approved at the time of enrollment. This would secure your slot in the program that is in place right now.

 

Keep in mind that I don't know for a fact that it will work this way. Just my hope that it will, and my hope that they will make the changes take effect for people who are not CURRENTLY enrolled in a program.

 

Good luck to you.

[nightsta1ker]

When I first read the LA Times article, I had mixed feelings. Jubilant that someone was finally on to ULA's stunts, uneasy because I knew that this would have negative cascading ramifications for the flight training industry. Now, I have been highly critical of ULA for years. I could see that they were creating a bubble, and now it looks like it's going to get popped. GOOD! Too bad they are taking everyone else with them. There are a few big schools that got greedy and took advantage of a good thing. My school, and the program we run, charges vet's 1/5th of what ULA is charging. Granted, our students are not graduating with 250 hours of turbine time , but we're sustainable. We meet the 85/15 rule, and we focus on getting our guys the training they need to be successful without maxing the benefits out. We often give several thousand dollars back to the VA at the end of every quarter (for each student) because they met the requirements for the quarter with money to spare. Some people need the extra cash and we use it all up. But we've got a cap already. $11,000 per quarter, and that's plenty for anyone who is cut out to be a helicopter pilot (we've had some people really struggle, but in my opinion they aren't cut out for it). What the VA needs to do is be smart about this. Limit the funding to a reasonable amount. Enough that Veterans can continue to get the training they EARNED (I myself am a Vet, and I used GI Bill to pay for slightly more than half of my ratings), without allowing greedy bastard schools like ULA to tap the bank and funnel as much money out as they possibly can. But like everything these days, it's politics, and those that oppose GI Bill spending have been quick to use this as a "gotcha!" and ram fix-it legislation through without any regard for common sense.

 

I hope they stop what is happening at ULA and a few other schools. I also hope that they leave the door open enough to let veterans get the education they deserve in a career of their choice. And most importantly, I hope I still have a job this time next year!

[Flying Pig]

Drop the ridiculous degree requiremts, drop all the turbine and useless turbine, long line, NVG nonsense create something similar to the 60/40 plan they used to have and carry on. Way to many organizations capitalized on the VA. Even colleges offering degrees in "Law Enforcement Aviation" with a course description saying how this degree is critical to getting a job in the LE aviation market. This problem expanded far beyond a couple flight schools.

[wickedsprint]

Interesting in regards to the police pilot course...

 

At least in Florida, Most Police / Law enforcement agencies pull their helicopter pilots from the ranks...and it is extremely competitive since some of those road patrol officers are actual combat pilots from the military.

 

Some of their junior pilots were in road patrol for over 10 years before getting picked up to fly LE.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

Took me about 9 yrs. I was a dual rated pilot on my own dime. I'm the chief pilot now for a different agency. We hire external pilots and make them cops. That process between the academy and field training takes them out of flying for about a year.