helicopter union

[Guest pokey]

this is a very controversial subject in other fields, i know there are pilot unions that the airline pilots [must] join. And the one for mechanics too,,, why hasn't there been one for just us helicopter ppls yet?

[takefootoff]

I couldn't imagine paying union dues as a cfi if membership was mandatory. I'd rather pay for a Sam's Club membership so I could get my Ramen in bulk.

[Azhigher]

There are unions at certain companies that you either join and pay dues or pay the exact same amount as an "agency fee" and don't get to vote. Is that what you're talking about?

[Gomer Pylot]

There is no universal union for any trade. There are locals for each company. PHPA is as close as you can come to a helicopter pilot union, but it's certainly not mandatory. The larger operators in the Gulf of Mexico have unions. In general, though, helicopter pilots tend to be too stubborn and independent to allow successful unions. They just won't stand up for each other and for the common good. That has been demonstrated repeatedly.

[Azhigher]

In general, though, helicopter pilots tend to be too stubborn and independent to allow successful unions. They just won't stand up for each other and for the common good. That has been demonstrated repeatedly.

 

Hey, you don't know me! You can't speak for me! Maybe I WILL stand up for my fellow pilot! Yeah... that'll teach you.

 

[takefootoff]

I think if we started to collectively bargain for more pay or benefits that drones will occupy our industry a lot quicker

[Wally]

I think if we started to collectively bargain for more pay or benefits that drones will occupy our industry a lot quicker

There's already more than enough drones in cockpits. A union won't help them, but it would help the worker bees.

[avbug]

There's no "airline pilot's union." There are unions that serve various airlines, each under a "local" or division of the union. A pilot flying night freight for Atlas isn't covered by the same union or contract that a pilot flying for Delta uses, and even within a given union or local, the contracts are different for each airline.

 

In order to have a union, there must be adequate solidarity, or unity, between those who would be a part of the union. You certainly won't find that among pilots in general; it's hard enough to find it within one company, let alone within a general body of pilots.

 

A union is formed under the Railway Labor Act, and it's more than just an organization to which a bunch of pilots belong. The purpose of the union is to negotiate a contract with the employer, and then to oversee member's interests under that contract. Whereas you can't have a universal contract with all employers, and most helicopter operators are small, unionizing is difficult.

 

Employers tend to fight quite hard to keep unions off the property.

[Nearly Retired]

Gomer Pylot has it absolutely right. See, he knows because he's lived it.

 

Here's the deal, yo:

 

The problem with helicopter pilots is that we generally always think the worst. We're not optimists. Oh, far from it! We *always* jump to the negative.

 

"That won't work."

 

That should be our motto.

 

When it comes to unions, helicopter pilots are against them for a variety of reasons. For one, they really, truly believe that they can negotiate a better deal with management on their own. ...Because that's what it's all about, getting the best deal for themself...getting a better deal than *you* have. "Screw you, I got mine!" Heyyy, come to think of it, *that* should be our motto!

 

Having been on the management side of the fence, we always snicker at such pilots. Sure, sure, you might negotiate a "better" deal than the guy we hired just before you, but it's still going to be within a narrow set of parameters. And if it makes you feel better to think that you've prevailed in some way over management or your fellow pilots (whom you probably despise), then hey, more power to you. We don't really care.

 

Many helicopter pilots object to unions because they reek of the dreaded Socialism! Pilots sometimes believe that unions stifle personal betterment, that they encourage people to do just the bare minimum because they have some perceived "job security." Some pilots believe that unions inhibit promotions for merit due to the strict requirments of the seniority system. In truth, neither of those things apply to pilot groups.

 

For one thing, Managment absolutely doesn't care about how accurately you fly straight and level...or how well you make an approach...or how fast or slow you fly. Managment doesn't care how often or well you make the coffee at your base. We don't care how quickly you answer a ringing phone, or sweep up the place. All we care about is that you not crash the helicopter. Oh, and don't piss-off the customer. If you show up for your hitch/shift and leave at the end without crashing the helicopter or pissing-off the customer, we consider that you've done an excellent job. And even if you've been with us for 20 years, you've just done the same job as the lower-time guy we hired last week. Sorry if that stings. But it's the truth.

 

Oh, and promotions within a pilot group are truly laughable. Do you consider an upgrade to a larger helicopter a "promotion?" Really? How petty. How very, very petty. An upgrade may involve a higher pay rate, but it is surely *not* a promotion. A promotion would be if you are selected for a position outside of the pilot group. Which, sorry to say, isn't going to happen. Most of you don't have the education necessary to be in management, no matter how highly you think of your intelligence or particular skillset. And to those of you who *do* have a degree in business-something? The fact that you are not using it speaks volumes about you. The fact that you are a line pilot tells us all we need to know about your aspirations, goals and dreams. (Hint: You're not management material.)

 

Oh, and finally a word about loyalty. None. That is the word. We know that pilots have *NO* loyalty to any company. If another job comes along that pays better (or even doesn't), we know you're a gone-pecan. You're Gone Johnson. But fear not! Because we have no loyalty to you either. To managment a pilot is merely "meat in the seat." You are replaceable. I know, I know, you think you're not. You think that YOUR value to the company is so high that they'd NEVER get rid of you, oh no! Guess what? You're wrong. We will let you go at the drop of a hat. Trust me, it's true. I've had to let many people go over the years. It's always painful. But in the end, we do what we have to do. And you know it's true! Look around, think about some of the fairly senior pilots you've known who've just...vanished...one day because they got on the wrong side of managment. Gone Johnson.

 

Let's recap: Pilots have no loyalty to a company and management has NO loyalty to you the employee. Once you come to understand that...once you wrap your tiny little brain around that fact...only then will you realize that you, yes YOU need a pilot union. But you won't, because you're so hung up on negotiating for yourself, the only one in life you feel you can trust, blah blah blah. And management? We laugh all the way to the bank. Pilots are so easily manipulated that it's hilarious.

 

Now stop. Some of you will loudly claim that I'm wrong. See, *you* don't work for a company such as I'm describing. *You* work for a company that values its employees, that would NEVER fire someone unfairly or lay people off (starting with the most senior/highly paid!) simply because business got bad next quarter. Furthermore, *you* would never work for a guy like me. Because that's just not how aviation works...that's not how *business* works!

 

Heh-heh.

 

Hey, you can stomp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue for all I care. I *know* how aviation works. I've been in this business a looooong time...on both side of the management/labor fence. And while I'm nearly retired now, I can offer you this bit of worthless advice: You pilots need a union. But you'll never do it. So bend over and enjoy your lives of no job-security, low pay and poor, shifting benefits. It's exactly what you deserve.

 

Ouch! Geez Bob, that's pretty harsh, isn't it? Well...yeah. And you know why it's what you deserve? Because you don't believe that as a group you deserve better. If you did, you'd do something about it.

[takefootoff]

Well then...

[apacheguy]

Awesome post, Nearly. You definitely know your way around the helo biz.

[eagle5]

I'm OK with being seat meat.

[Spike]

My observation is; helicopter pilots are control freaks… They appear to be negative simply because I’m a helicopter pilot and we “both” can’t be positive….. Right?

 

For most of us pilots, we become a product of our environment. Over time, a negative environment will turn anyone into a negative-nelly. The control freak pilot, who has no juice to change anything, will become negative…. It’s human nature….

 

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." -Harry S Truman

 

However, over the years, met, got to know, know, became friends with, and hopefully will contine to meet, some pretty awemone people in this business....... Who are, in fact, positive people... I guess I'm just lucky.....

Edited April 18, 2015 by Spike

[PondJumper]

Gomer Pylot has it absolutely right. See, he knows because he's lived it.

 

Here's the deal, yo:

 

The problem with helicopter pilots is that we generally always think the worst. We're not optimists. Oh, far from it! We *always* jump to the negative.

 

"That won't work."

 

That should be our motto.

 

When it comes to unions, helicopter pilots are against them for a variety of reasons. For one, they really, truly believe that they can negotiate a better deal with management on their own. ...Because that's what it's all about, getting the best deal for themself...getting a better deal than *you* have. "Screw you, I got mine!" Heyyy, come to think of it, *that* should be our motto!

 

Having been on the management side of the fence, we always snicker at such pilots. Sure, sure, you might negotiate a "better" deal than the guy we hired just before you, but it's still going to be within a narrow set of parameters. And if it makes you feel better to think that you've prevailed in some way over management or your fellow pilots (whom you probably despise), then hey, more power to you. We don't really care.

 

Many helicopter pilots object to unions because they reek of the dreaded Socialism! Pilots sometimes believe that unions stifle personal betterment, that they encourage people to do just the bare minimum because they have some perceived "job security." Some pilots believe that unions inhibit promotions for merit due to the strict requirments of the seniority system. In truth, neither of those things apply to pilot groups.

 

For one thing, Managment absolutely doesn't care about how accurately you fly straight and level...or how well you make an approach...or how fast or slow you fly. Managment doesn't care how often or well you make the coffee at your base. We don't care how quickly you answer a ringing phone, or sweep up the place. All we care about is that you not crash the helicopter. Oh, and don't piss-off the customer. If you show up for your hitch/shift and leave at the end without crashing the helicopter or pissing-off the customer, we consider that you've done an excellent job. And even if you've been with us for 20 years, you've just done the same job as the lower-time guy we hired last week. Sorry if that stings. But it's the truth.

 

Oh, and promotions within a pilot group are truly laughable. Do you consider an upgrade to a larger helicopter a "promotion?" Really? How petty. How very, very petty. An upgrade may involve a higher pay rate, but it is surely *not* a promotion. A promotion would be if you are selected for a position outside of the pilot group. Which, sorry to say, isn't going to happen. Most of you don't have the education necessary to be in management, no matter how highly you think of your intelligence or particular skillset. And to those of you who *do* have a degree in business-something? The fact that you are not using it speaks volumes about you. The fact that you are a line pilot tells us all we need to know about your aspirations, goals and dreams. (Hint: You're not management material.)

 

Oh, and finally a word about loyalty. None. That is the word. We know that pilots have *NO* loyalty to any company. If another job comes along that pays better (or even doesn't), we know you're a gone-pecan. You're Gone Johnson. But fear not! Because we have no loyalty to you either. To managment a pilot is merely "meat in the seat." You are replaceable. I know, I know, you think you're not. You think that YOUR value to the company is so high that they'd NEVER get rid of you, oh no! Guess what? You're wrong. We will let you go at the drop of a hat. Trust me, it's true. I've had to let many people go over the years. It's always painful. But in the end, we do what we have to do. And you know it's true! Look around, think about some of the fairly senior pilots you've known who've just...vanished...one day because they got on the wrong side of managment. Gone Johnson.

 

Let's recap: Pilots have no loyalty to a company and management has NO loyalty to you the employee. Once you come to understand that...once you wrap your tiny little brain around that fact...only then will you realize that you, yes YOU need a pilot union. But you won't, because you're so hung up on negotiating for yourself, the only one in life you feel you can trust, blah blah blah. And management? We laugh all the way to the bank. Pilots are so easily manipulated that it's hilarious.

 

Now stop. Some of you will loudly claim that I'm wrong. See, *you* don't work for a company such as I'm describing. *You* work for a company that values its employees, that would NEVER fire someone unfairly or lay people off (starting with the most senior/highly paid!) simply because business got bad next quarter. Furthermore, *you* would never work for a guy like me. Because that's just not how aviation works...that's not how *business* works!

 

Heh-heh.

 

Hey, you can stomp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue for all I care. I *know* how aviation works. I've been in this business a looooong time...on both side of the management/labor fence. And while I'm nearly retired now, I can offer you this bit of worthless advice: You pilots need a union. But you'll never do it. So bend over and enjoy your lives of no job-security, low pay and poor, shifting benefits. It's exactly what you deserve.

 

Ouch! Geez Bob, that's pretty harsh, isn't it? Well...yeah. And you know why it's what you deserve? Because you don't believe that as a group you deserve better. If you did, you'd do something about it.

[Wally]

Gomer Pylot has it absolutely right. See, he knows because he's lived it.

....

When it comes to unions, helicopter pilots are against them for a variety of reasons. For one, they really, truly believe that they can negotiate a better deal with management on their own. ...Because that's what it's all about, getting the best deal for themself...getting a better deal than *you* have. "Screw you, I got mine!" Heyyy, come to think of it, *that* should be our motto!

 

Having been on the management side of the fence, we always snicker at such pilots. Sure, sure, you might negotiate a "better" deal than the guy we hired just before you, but it's still going to be within a narrow set of parameters. And if it makes you feel better to think that you've prevailed in some way over management or your fellow pilots (whom you probably despise), then hey, more power to you. We don't really care.

 

Many helicopter pilots object to unions because they reek of the dreaded Socialism! Pilots sometimes believe that unions stifle personal betterment, that they encourage people to do just the bare minimum because they have some perceived "job security." Some pilots believe that unions inhibit promotions for merit due to the strict requirments of the seniority system. In truth, neither of those things apply to pilot groups.

 

For one thing, Managment absolutely doesn't care about how accurately you fly straight and level...or how well you make an approach...or how fast or slow you fly. Managment doesn't care how often or well you make the coffee at your base. We don't care how quickly you answer a ringing phone, or sweep up the place. All we care about is that you not crash the helicopter. Oh, and don't piss-off the customer. If you show up for your hitch/shift and leave at the end without crashing the helicopter or pissing-off the customer, we consider that you've done an excellent job. And even if you've been with us for 20 years, you've just done the same job as the lower-time guy we hired last week. Sorry if that stings. But it's the truth.

...

Now stop. Some of you will loudly claim that I'm wrong. See, *you* don't work for a company such as I'm describing. *You* work for a company that values its employees, that would NEVER fire someone unfairly or lay people off (starting with the most senior/highly paid!) simply because business got bad next quarter. Furthermore, *you* would never work for a guy like me. Because that's just not how aviation works...that's not how *business* works!

 

Heh-heh.

 

Hey, you can stomp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue for all I care. I *know* how aviation works. I've been in this business a looooong time...on both side of the management/labor fence. And while I'm nearly retired now, I can offer you this bit of worthless advice: You pilots need a union. But you'll never do it. So bend over and enjoy your lives of no job-security, low pay and poor, shifting benefits. It's exactly what you deserve.

 

Ouch! Geez Bob, that's pretty harsh, isn't it? Well...yeah. And you know why it's what you deserve? Because you don't believe that as a group you deserve better. If you did, you'd do something about it.

 

1 +1 = 2 management has to make the numbers add up. When the answer isn't what you want, you change the numbers to get what you want.