Post Audit Briefing/After Action Report? VA Audit

[takefootoff]

Has anything come down from that audit the VA did a weeks back?

[Whiteshadow]

I'm waiting to see what starts coming down from all of this too. The college we are associated with has a meeting this afternoon. It's supposed to explain any new rules implemented. We will have several people there to get the information and pass it on. Hopefully the information will be more concrete than anything we have seen from the VA before.

[takefootoff]

It's encouraging to hear yal are having a meeting with the college, communication is key. I hope it goes well.

 

My program is only 9 months old, communication between the college/flight school could use improvement. I often act as middle man and I have been extremely diligent in trying to get the kinks worked out.

[RagMan]

Id like to see what happened to all those guys who got all that turbine time....

 

Surely they arent instructing in robinsons if they were burning all their money in turbines, and surely they werent able to get commercial jobs...

[eagle5]

There in Starbuck's degree program now.

[Mikemv]

On Thursday, May 21, 2015, Rep. Brad Wenstrop (R-Ohio) plans to sneak into a larger bill an amendment that would severely limit veterans’ funding for flight-training degree programs.

Show your support for our veterans: contact the heads of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee TODAY to prevent the inclusion of amendments that restrict GI benefits for flight training. Then forward this email TODAY to every friend and colleague who wants to ensure that our veterans receive the benefits promised them for their service.

 

Tell Reps. Jeff Miller (R-Fla.) and Corrine Brown (D-Fla.), who lead the committee as chairman and ranking member, to exclude the language of H.R. 476 from the legislation they'll consider at a hearing tomorrow, Thursday, May 21, at 10:30 am Eastern Time. Ironically, the two represent districts in Jacksonville and Pensacola, which host two of the largest U.S. naval installations in the country, where many helicopter units are based.

• Jeff Miller can be contacted at 202-225-4136 orhttp://jeffmiller.house.gov. Much of the support for eliminating flight training has come from the Republican side of the aisle.
• Corrine Brown has generally been supportive of efforts to maintain veterans’ benefits but needs to know the depth of opposition to H.R. 476. Her office phone number is 202-225-0123.

In your communications with their offices, consider making the following points:

• Do not allow amendments that restrict GI benefits for flight training to be added to any bill considered by the Veterans’ Affairs Committee
• Exclude H.R. 476 from the package of bills under consideration at tomorrow’s (Thursday) markup session, and do not roll it into H.R. 475
• Do not cut veterans’ benefits or discriminate against veterans by eliminating payment for flight-training degree programs; treat all veteran college-degree programs at public institutions equally
• Allow the Veterans Administration’s renewed emphasis on existing regulations to take effect, and let the market forces play out
• Order a Government Accountability Office (GAO) study on the costs and requirements necessary for veterans to obtain employable status as commercial helicopter pilots.

Many veterans currently working toward their commercial pilot licenses matriculated based upon the promise of full tuition benefits for pilot training after completing their active-duty service. Cutting GI benefits for flight training is a disservice to our nation’s veterans and will exacerbate the deteriorating pool of commercial pilots, thereby accelerating the pilot shortage in this country.

Helping veterans train to employable status leads to well-paying jobs for those vets — jobs that serve society’s needs, whether in law enforcement, firefighting, helicopter air ambulance, or vital industries such as petroleum production, power distribution, and construction.

As a member of the helicopter industry and/or the veteran community, please contact Reps. Miller and Brown TODAY. We need to make sure our voices are heard in the halls of Congress. If you would like to learn more about this issue, please read this letter to Reps. Miller and Brown from the general aviation associations.

 

 

Helicopter Association International

1920 Ballenger Avenue, Alexandria, Virginia 22314-2898

T 703-683-4646 | F 703-683-4745

www.rotor.org | heliexpo.rotor.org

[Whiteshadow]

Consider it done Mike, thanks for the great info.

[eagle5]

.

. and will exacerbate the deteriorating pool of commercial pilots, thereby accelerating the pilot shortage in this country.

I'm all for Vets getting benefits, but as for this...?

 

Bring it on! I would love to see a "real" pilot shortage for once!

 

I won't hold my breath though...

Edited May 21, 2015 by eagle5

[A-aron]

Has this been voted on anywhere yet or has anything changed in the past month or so?

[Fred0311]

I got turbine time, instructed in a Robinson and am now flying a turbine commercialy... As are a lot of my friends from the program. Not trying to start anything but you asked.

[WolftalonID]

I know that the school I instruct for passed the VA audit with flying colors. It may seem harsh that a few schools are suffering from not being in compliance, but there are a few , like us still going strong and doing things right.

[takefootoff]

I know that the school I instruct for passed the VA audit with flying colors. It may seem harsh that a few schools are suffering from not being in compliance, but there are a few , like us still going strong and doing things right.

 

My program was found to be in compliance as well.

 

Can I ask what hours the Instrument course comes with at your school?

 

What syllabus do yal go off of?

 

Im just looking for a some clarification on what I can expect as I approach the FAA 141 minimums.

 

For example next flight is my final stage check before the check ride. Yesterday I flew an ILS/LOC into the closest airport from where I am based, directly there and directly back once I hit the DA, didn't even get to fly the missed...even still put I 1.2 on the hobbs. I have broken 1.0 on a few flights before and tried to make up for it by flying a 0.8 on the next flight. I think I am robbing myself of valuable training by being urged to do that.

[adam32]

 

I think I am robbing myself of valuable training by being urged to do that.

 

You can always buck up and put some of your own coin towards your training like most all Vets before you had to do...

[takefootoff]

True, and I'll do whatever it takes if and/or when it comes to that in order to get my ratings.

 

I train exclusively in the 300 with the program but I have been taking it upon myself to chip away at the SFAR 73 at another flight school. With only 6 hours completed I can not relate but appreciate paying out of pocket.

 

With that sentence isolated, it sounds like I am feeling sorry for myself but that is not the case.

[A-aron]

Are your sure you have to hit the minimums? I know I was over on my instrument due to some issues with reverse sensing. From what I understand the VA just sent an additional payment at the end of the semester.

[apacheguy]

True, and I'll do whatever it takes if and/or when it comes to that in order to get my ratings.

 

I train exclusively in the 300 with the program but I have been taking it upon myself to chip away at the SFAR 73 at another flight school. With only 6 hours completed I can not relate but appreciate paying out of pocket.

 

With that sentence isolated, it sounds like I am feeling sorry for myself but that is not the case.

 

To me it sounds like your school's doing something wrong with the hours/billing. Have you considered a move to a friendlier school?

[takefootoff]

Are your sure you have to hit the minimums? I know I was over on my instrument due to some issues with reverse sensing. From what I understand the VA just sent an additional payment at the end of the semester.

 

Hitting the minimums is coming down from the chief pilot, I believe he is concerned with retaliation from the VA if we are found to be training in excess of the minimums.

 

The full tuition was paid out by the VA, it is sitting in the college's account and the flight school then bills the college to get paid.

 

 

To me it sounds like your school's doing something wrong with the hours/billing. Have you considered a move to a friendlier school?

 

To at least finish my instrument here and then go to another school with a more established program, who also fly's 22's, to get my commercial has crossed my mind many times, I still consider it a contingency plan though. It is a career choice dilema for me.

 

I have a sense of loyalty to this program though and I believe that is valuable, maybe I am being naive.

[takefootoff]

I wanted to respond to you gentlemen since you addressed me specifically, but In hindsight I should of kept the OP to just the question, explaining my situation as much as I have is an awful lot of exposure, not very professional.

[Mikemv]

Today's News!

 

 

To virtually no one’s surprise, the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee on Thursday ramrodded through a provision that will severely curtail veterans’ ability to pursue a flight-training degree. The measure, which was rolled into another bill (H.R. 475) with the full support of committee chairman Rep. Jeff Miller (R-Fla.), is the brainchild of Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio), chairman of the subcommittee that oversees Veterans Administration (VA) educational benefits. Ranking Member Corrine Brown (D-Fla.) noted that much work remains to be done on the bill and secured a commitment from Rep. Miller (R-Fla.) to continue the work.

HAI believes the real work needs to be done by flight schools, veterans, and other members of the aviation community who need to pressure Congress to treat fairly vets who want a career in aviation.

Both HAI members and individual veterans need to contact members of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee — especially if the member or veteran is a constituent of a committee member — and urge them to remove the flight training provision from H.R. 475. In addition, they should contact their own representative. Members of the House General Aviation Caucus should also be urged to oppose Rep. Wenstrup’s measure.

In your messages to Congress, consider using some of the points below.

• Do not allow amendments that restrict GI benefits for flight training to be added to any bill considered by the Veterans’ Affairs Committee
• Strip the amendment to H.R. 475 that restricts GI benefits for flight training
• Do not discriminate against veterans by reducing payment for flight-training degree programs
• Force the Veterans Administration to enforce existing regulations
• Compel a Government Accountability Office (GAO) study on the true costs of helicopter flight training.

The measure to curtail flight training benefits was introduced after the VA asked Wenstrup for help to clean up a mess it created by failing to adequately and equitably enforce its own rules.

HAI and other aviation organizations pressed hard in trying to educate members of Congress on the perils of treating veterans’ flight training differently than other college degrees. While Rep. Dina Titus (D-Nev.) spoke out loudly about her strong disagreement with Rep. Wenstrup over the impact his legislation will have on veterans, citing many of the same points raised in aGA Association CEO letter to Congress, her passionate plea for common sense fell on deaf ears. Rep. Titus, who represents Las Vegas, clearly recognizes the impact this legislation will have on that city’s significant helicopter presence.

The helicopter industry takes issue with many of the statements made by Rep. Wenstrup atThursday’s session. He claimed that from 2013 to 2014 flight training prices increased by 87 percent, according to data provided to him by the VA. Had the agency been enforcing its own regulations, the instances where the VA paid out amounts in the mid-six figures for a few students would not have occurred. Based on the surveys and data it has collected on this issue, HAI does not believe there was the “enormous jump in costs” cited by Rep. Wenstrup.

Rep. Wenstrup’s statement that veterans “will not be affected by the $20,235 per year cap” is already proven false. Early Thursday morning, even before the hearing started, HAI received word from one of the students pursuing helicopter flight training at Palm Beach State College in Florida that the college has made the decision “to suspend the professional pilot helicopter program indefinitely as a result of VA changes.”

This young Marine has sadly made the decision that it is pointless for him to try to complete his college degree as it will serve no purpose in an aviation career as a helicopter pilot — a dream that has now been shattered. The economic costs of trying to relocate to another flight school are insurmountable for this young man, coupled with the interruption of his flight training.

This unfortunate decision leaves a young Marine who honorably served our nation out in the cold. As HAI had warned members of Congress, veterans will end up having wasted a portion of their GI education benefits and find themselves unable to attain a college degree with what benefits remain.

During the hearing, Rep. Wenstrup said, “My goal is not to hurt any veteran, or to end flight training for them,” but that is exactly what he has done for this Marine, even before the bill passed the House. And there will likely be many more cases like this in the weeks and months to come.

Reps. Brown and Titus need to hear from flight schools, veterans, and the entire industry, thanking them for their support and urging them to continue to fight the measure. Veterans adversely affected should consider sharing their stories.

Despite Rep. Wenstrup’s intentions, the flight training provision in H.R. 475 will harm veterans and make it extremely difficult — if not impossible — for them to pursue a career in aviation. It has already done so for at least one Marine.

[Mikemv]

Every flight instructor, at every flight school needs to get on this band wagon to protect their jobs and continue on the path to second tier jobs.

 

What if most CFIs teaching at VA schools were laid off?

[eagle5]

 

What if most CFIs teaching at VA schools were laid off?

I suspect they'd be in the same boat as the cfis who were laid off when Silver State went belly up?

[adam32]

What if most CFIs teaching at VA schools were laid off?

Not much. They would either find a job at another flight school or they wouldn't. Pretty simple.

[Mikemv]

Not much. They would either find a job at another flight school or they wouldn't. Pretty simple.

Pretty simple to say but where does that leave these pilots in attaining hours towards the second tier job?

 

Say a CFI has 650 hours, still needs 4-500 more to get into tours or GOM.

 

This will really hurt the industry and is one of the arguments to be made for not cutting off VA training.

 

Also, consider where it leaves the vets in training?

 

I knew the answer to the questions, i was just throwing it out there for everyone to consider if they were contacting Congressmen and such.

[adam32]

Pretty simple to say but where does that leave these pilots in attaining hours towards the second tier job?

 

Say a CFI has 650 hours, still needs 4-500 more to get into tours or GOM.

 

This will really hurt the industry and is one of the arguments to be made for not cutting off VA training.

 

Also, consider where it leaves the vets in training?

 

I knew the answer to the questions, i was just throwing it out there for everyone to consider if they were contacting Congressmen and such.

How many Silverstate CFI'S are still unemployed?

 

How many are still sitting at 650 hours doing anything and everything trying to get into their second tier job?

 

How many students that were enrolled in training are now $75k in debt without even a Commercial? Or a Private?

 

There's no guarantees in life and the helicopter business is 10x worse then real life.

[Azhigher]

VA schools? If a school is worth it's salt it'll have more than just VA students. What will happen to those who are at 650 hours? They'll find a job or they won't, same as everyone else. Remember veterans are still free to go through flight school, they'll just have to pay for it like everyone else.