Promotion to E5 prior to depature

MichaelRyanSD · July 27, 2015

So I got my orders last Friday and in them, it says "Losing comand will ensure Soldiers in the grade of E-4 and below are promoted to E-5in current MOS prior to departure for WOFT in compliance with AR 600-8-19"

I've gotten thee old "Never heard of that, must mean it isn't real" attitude in regards to this.

How did any of you, E-4 and below handle this when you left?

StockTrader · July 27, 2015

You will receive promotion orders to E5 right before you attend the course if needed. Its a requirement to be in that pay grade in order to attend. They will address it during your in brief.

Yamer · July 27, 2015

My guard unit, shortly after publishing my state orders to WOC followed it up with federal orders to E5 pay. If you're active duty, they might hold off until you ship to wocs to promote you for pay reasons

crash · July 27, 2015

So, my s1 said she didn't know how to do it, and that she was sure they would sort it out eventually at Rucker. This was after I took my company commander (O-4 type) down to attempt to rectify this, with no success.

Not that this is any help to you, just letting you know you're not alone with this issue.

MichaelRyanSD · July 27, 2015

Yeah I realize they probably deal with this at Rucker somewhat frequently, but I leave almost a month before my report date. The real road blocks I'm having to getting promoted here seems to be " bah, he didn't earn it, we're not promoting him." Now, I understand this mentality and I agree it's kind of a BS policy, but you know what, there are thousands of policies that don't work in the soldiers favor and only a handful of ones that do work in our favor and this is one of them. I guess what I'm asking is, how high do I go or to whom if they keep poo poo'ing it?

CharyouTree · July 28, 2015

See AR 600-8-19 para 7-15a:

Soldiers will be promoted to SGT (with a title of candidate) 1 day before they enter the RA OCS or the Interservice Physician’s Assistant Program. Soldiers ordered to the Warrant Officer Candidate School (WOCS) will be promoted effective on the date travel begins per NGR 600–101.

I don't know why it references a NG Reg, but...

NGR 2-11 para 2-11d goes on to say:

Effective on the date travel to WOCS begins, Warrant Officer Candidates who have not attained the enlisted rank of Sergeant (SGT) (i.e.: Aviation Candidates) must be administratively promoted to rank of SGT under the provisions of AR 600-8-19 (Enlisted Promotions and Reductions), paragraph 7-15a. Standard Name Line (SNL) on orders published ordering a candidate to WOCS must reflect the rank of at least SGT.
(Emphasis mine)

Of course, it self references back to the AR, but.. whatever. Bring them the reg. Show them.

Welcome to the fun part of being a warrant officer: you get to know other people's jobs, as well as your own.

MichaelRyanSD · July 28, 2015

Hmm, I'm active duty, it looks like that second quote is a NG reg. Not sure if that applies to AD, but it's worth a shot

MichaelRyanSD · August 6, 2015

So I went to JAG with this today, not trying to fire any shots yet, but its seeming more and more like they are going to stonewall this as much as possible. Right now it seems like the leadership wants me to go to the board next month to promote me, mind you I start clearing at the end of this month. My response has been effectively "Ummm, no".

Now some people may think why care so much, well if you look at the regs CharyouTree quoted, it says your orders must state you're an E5, which can affect your weight allowance for a move.

Basically JAG said they researched it a bit, they have really no grounds to deny me the promotion and to coordinate with the promotions section in our base admin BLDG if I don't want to understandably ruffle some feathers before I leave.

crash · August 6, 2015

When I looked into it, it was 7000lbs for e-4 or e-5. I respectfully took it as far as I could with my unit until the csm basically gave me the bird and said it wasn't going to happen. I in process next week and will let you know if it turned out to be an issue.

MichaelRyanSD · August 6, 2015

Let me know how much of an issue it is for in processing. I wonder if there is any potential for missing a class date, however unlikely that is.

Sucks that you got shot down, but honestly this is handled at a lowest a Brigade level.

sh*t like this pisses me off to no end, it was even in my essay how yeah I want to fly, but honestly I really want to be in charge enough to put an end to this sh*t, the proverbial "they" love to invoke regulations when it works for them, but then all of sudden if they don't like it, suddenly regs go out the window.

Yamer · August 6, 2015

Prozac does wonders friend.

shainbourassa · August 6, 2015

If you are active duty they "promote" you to E-5 while you are in WOCS. If you are guard, they can get your state to do it right before graduation if they are giving you trouble. Regardless you get E-5 pay the whole time.

crash · August 6, 2015

Honestly I feel like my pay is going to be screwed up and will take about 6 months to actually get the adjustment. I really hope they wouldn't bump a class date for an admin issue like that, but who knows. I agree if you can take it to bde or to ig possibly, that might be the only way to actually get wheels turning... if you can get any results from that in a timely manner (like before you actually get to Rucker) might be another story. Good luck. It is very unfortunate that it takes rank or the parting of the red sea iot get regs followed when it's inconvenient for commands.

CharyouTree · August 6, 2015

Honestly, it doesn't matter even if you do get bumped a class. I understand you're itching to start, but you're going to have so much time on hold... Two weeks is nothing, and could very well get absorbed by another hold. (Ie... You could start, wocs with class 17, then be in primary with guys from 16.)

MichaelRyanSD · August 12, 2015

Follow up for anyone who may find themselves in a similar situation. For starters, all the regs and the orders state that your losing unit has to promote you before you leave.

I say this because anyone you go to will come up with all sorts of things you need to do to get this done, I went to my Brigade S1 and was told I have to put a packet together with supporting documents that they have to submit to HRC since HRC does the promotion. So I eventually went over to enlisted promotions in our admin building for our post. Luckily the civilians working there, although had never heard of this either, were on my side and got everything straighten out.

Anyone in a similar situation I suggest you respectfully and tactfully go to every resource you have and continue to move up or Chain of Command, and civilian CoC as well. Simply put, your orders and the regs say "Losing unit will promote soldier before they depart". So if you are getting some other answers, then keep going up.