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So, I'm 34yrs old, I've been a Police Officer for the last 12years, deaf in my left ear since I was born, have a Wife and a 3yr old son, I'm a non veteran with no savings.

 

Ya so I really have a passion for flying and I want to do this commercially. I had no idea I would be able to fly with a deaf ear until I was talking to a EMS pilot and he suggested getting my med cert from the faa dr. I got my class 2 medical in December and now the struggle is how on earth do non-veterans pay for this. I've never made more than 28,000 as a Police Officer So, one can imagine basically you live paycheck to paycheck. Will be debt free in the next month or 2 but, when you look at getting a loan they go off your income with most of these and that means I can get like $10,000....Yippie only $95,000 short....I'm 6'1" 245lbs down from my original weight of 300 and I'm still to heavy to train in a R22...Therefore my training is more expensive being in a R44 or 300CBi.

 

I'm looking for any advice I can get. While I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to pay for this training I've been thinking about doing some sim training at midwest helicopter in STL and maybe online ground school (a website I ran into). I live around Springfield Illinois but, I'm a Police Officer an hour north of STL Missouri.

 

Thanks again

 

Andy

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If funds are limited, you might consider looking at fixed wing flying first. Get involved with the local civil air patrol. Experimental Aircraft Association. Even popular rotorcraft association. Anywhere you can get your foot in the door and get started.

 

AOPA (aircraft owners and pilots association) has connections for flight training loans, though you need to be aware that the income starting out will be less than you're making now. If you're stuck with substantial loans, it can be quite a burden in the early years.

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$28,000 as a police officer??? That's like $14/hr...transfer to a better Dept and save some money for a couple years then pay cash for flight school.

 

I've tried and being deaf in my ear hinders me from all major cities in the Missouri area that make better money....I'm used to it at this point...My wife has been a LPN for the last 5years and now she is going to get her RN...She can be my sugar momma! ;-)

 

Avbug I will look into what you suggested, Thanks for that.

 

I did an hour on the simulator today took me almost the entire hour to get it and I still couldn't land or take off right without making the aircraft go wonky far left or far right...I was able to take the controls today in the R44 while in flight, I do much better when I'm cruising then trying to land or take off or hover....I don't think I'm to terrible, everything CAN be taught and become muscle memory but, man was I a bundle of stiff rock up there.....It's pretty nerve racking at first, not sure how long it takes to take me from white knuckle on the controls to loosey goosey....I just recieved my Helicopter flying handbook in the mail from amazon, I'm going to spend the next few weeks going over that and once Midwest helicopter gets the gimbul in january I want to take another test flight in that. In the mean time just working on research and dropping more weight. Went from 300lbs now I'm at 245....I don't think I've been under 200lbs in 17years....working rotating shifts and the stress of the job, my body rejects weight loss...It took me 2 1/2 years to loose 60lbs....

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When you say you did an hour on the simulator, do you mean a simulator computer game, or an actual simulator? Are you trying to teach yourself?

 

Using computer games won't teach you to fly airplanes or helicopters.

 

Use of simulation can be helpful, but ONLY if you're taking the actual experience to the simulator. You'll need some flight training first, and use your experience and exposure to the aircraft, under the tutelage of a qualified instructor, to make the simulation meaningful. Simply getting on a simulator of any kind won't teach you.

 

I wouldn't risk my health in order to get into a Robinson. Forget that.

 

You don't need to be under 200 lbs to fly a Cessna or a piper. They're also considerably less on an hourly basis.

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When you say you did an hour on the simulator, do you mean a simulator computer game, or an actual simulator? Are you trying to teach yourself?

 

Using computer games won't teach you to fly airplanes or helicopters.

 

Use of simulation can be helpful, but ONLY if you're taking the actual experience to the simulator. You'll need some flight training first, and use your experience and exposure to the aircraft, under the tutelage of a qualified instructor, to make the simulation meaningful. Simply getting on a simulator of any kind won't teach you.

 

I wouldn't risk my health in order to get into a Robinson. Forget that.

 

You don't need to be under 200 lbs to fly a Cessna or a piper. They're also considerably less on an hourly basis.

 

no no, I was at Midwest Helicopter Flight School...They just purchased a simulator for the school and I was the first one to try it out....I had an instructor in the room teaching me as I was doing it....I think it helped when it came time for the flight afterwards...I thought about fixed wing and I might do just 1 more intro flight...The last one I did was in January this year and it was freaking super cold and really windy, I was white knuckled the whole time and ready to be out and back in the helicopter....

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I wouldn’t do anything to include ground school or, fly a simulator, until you’re ready to flight train. And, don’t let the school tell you otherwise. That is, attempting to get ahead of the game usually results in a one-step-forward-two-steps-backward scenario. In your case, focus on getting the funds to pay for private certification. If you can’t get the funds, then there is no reason to move forward. Continue to lose weight as well….. Being too heavy for an R22 is not a good thing for career advancement……

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Why don't you go and visit various local flight schools and ask them about a future career given your circumstances and get 1st hand frontline information. Then you can come to your own conclusions. Best Luck.

Because flight schools will tell you whatever gets you to pay them whereas we have no reason to lie.

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You see this is why I liked the old forum where you could dislike posts as well. I mean come on, how can you like two posts that contradick each other?

 

,...wait, contra dick? That sounds kinda funny, I must be spelling it wrong? Damn auto correct, never around when you need it

 

Funny how things have changed. When I took out a loan I made $9 bucks an hour and lived in my car,...and they gave me $80k!

:)

Edited by r22butters
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Ok, first, don't be discouraged that you could not fly a simulator, almost nobody can hover a helicopter right off the bat, and simulators, especially low end ones, do not fly much like helicopters. The high end ones that I have flown do not hover exactly like a helicopter.

 

I do not see an easy route to being a commercial helicopter pilot for you, but that should not stop you. You could start by studying and learning all you can. Simulator flying is really not going to do much for you at this point. As you have discovered, weight is critical in both flight training and later in getting that all important first job. Lighter is better, and some jobs, for instance flight instruction and some tours and medevac, have weight limits.

 

I am a retired police officer, and am currently working as a helicopter pilot. I do think you are going to need more income to be able to make ends meet and take some helicopter lessons. Your best bet might be to find a police department that both has helicopters and trains their own pilots. It would not hurt if they pay better too. Don't restrict yourself to the local area.

 

Once you get the job with the department with helicopters, you have to be the absolute best officer they have. Primo slots like aviation are much in demand, and you will have to compete, and win, to get it. That is what I did, and I only had to work as a patrol officer and investigator for six years to get into aviation. It helped that I already had a private airplane license.

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Here's what you do. Take a couple of credit cards and get your private rating in that 300cbi. Then when this "Looming pilot shortage" hits us like the ton of bricks they whine it will just walk into any one of those operator's door and say, "Here I am"!

 

At that point I'm sure they'll be more than happy to finish your training.

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Thanks for the advice....At this point I'm just going to keep doing research while I figure out the best option, I will put this on the back burner until Spring and in that time I will work out how to do what I need and I will also work on getting my weight down even farther....With Midwest getting a guimbal helicopter in January and another in May it will be nice if I don't get under 200lbs...They are the new thing and cheaper than the 44

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I really don't know what to tell you, I been a professional pilot for 40 years now , started in airplanes, transitioned to helicopters 33 years ago, fly both- right now I fly for an individual in a light twin that will end after the labor day week end! I am also some what deaf- to many years in noisy aircraft, and I am on a continued issuance medical- Type II diabetes! I have a few extra humps to jump thru! I am also 60. Flying is a tough nut no matter what it is, and its been hard for guys with the current economic situation, I seen it tough back in the 1970's when I started, it was bad this has be worst! There are few jobs for the low time guys and course there are also a lot of low time guys looking for those seat! You are going to have a tough time of it after flight school, how tough I don't know things have to pick up more I should think! You have your work cut out for you, and I don't blame you a bit for not wanting to be a policeman anymore! Thankless and no money! I just turned down 34K a year to fly a beech 99, I thought it was a very poor rate of pay! There were some other factors with that offer I just didn't like! Good luck to you, as for the finance part of it, I would not even know were to suggest you look, and with the amounts you would need, it was not that long ago you could buy a fairly nice house with that kind of money!

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...With Midwest getting a guimbal helicopter in January and another in May it will be nice if I don't get under 200lbs...They are the new thing and cheaper than the 44

Well I guess that makes 2 schools who will have them. Possibly better odds of employment than a 300cbi?

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Thats a tough call. In your case you need to find a helicopter that can handle your size, but still allow for a job prospect after. A school with a helicopter nobody is really using can be rough for future prospects. That new helicopter is interesting, but its not going to be anything I would bank an $80,000 flight school bill on. Guys who train in the 300 have a hard enough time as it is getting on as a CFI afterwards.

 

Reading your scenario, you really sound like a guy who may be better suited for airplanes. I am a CFI in both. One isnt any better than the other although I do prefer helicopters. But I have plenty of enjoyment taking the plane out as well. I have no data to back this up, but I would say there are FAR more airplane schools, I personally see that airplane CFIs seem to rotate out faster than helicopter CFIs leaving more prospects for new people coming in. But seriously, if you are 6'1" and 245... you are going to have a long road ahead an your odds of getting picked up to fly as a 245+lb CFI are going to be pretty slim.

 

As an airplane pilot, I flew with CAP quite a bit. Probably about 400hrs. thats not the norm, but it can be done depending on the uses of CAP in your area. I was in CA and flew all over the place. I don't know what MO looks like for CAP.

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Well I guess that makes 2 schools who will have them. Possibly better odds of employment than a 300cbi?

 

yeah I'm still looking into Bristow Academy in Louisiana, they are using 300's....I have been searching jobs for after you get hours etc and have noticed under 230 is pretty much a standard....I'll do my best to loose the weight and I will not commit unless I've reached 220 or under goal....I'm not like a heavy big pot belly kinda guy, it's just distributed everywhere...lol

 

Thats a tough call. In your case you need to find a helicopter that can handle your size, but still allow for a job prospect after. A school with a helicopter nobody is really using can be rough for future prospects. That new helicopter is interesting, but its not going to be anything I would bank an $80,000 flight school bill on. Guys who train in the 300 have a hard enough time as it is getting on as a CFI afterwards.

 

Reading your scenario, you really sound like a guy who may be better suited for airplanes. I am a CFI in both. One isnt any better than the other although I do prefer helicopters. But I have plenty of enjoyment taking the plane out as well. I have no data to back this up, but I would say there are FAR more airplane schools, I personally see that airplane CFIs seem to rotate out faster than helicopter CFIs leaving more prospects for new people coming in. But seriously, if you are 6'1" and 245... you are going to have a long road ahead an your odds of getting picked up to fly as a 245+lb CFI are going to be pretty slim.

 

As an airplane pilot, I flew with CAP quite a bit. Probably about 400hrs. thats not the norm, but it can be done depending on the uses of CAP in your area. I was in CA and flew all over the place. I don't know what MO looks like for CAP.

 

I'm actually waiting on a call back from a fixed wing chief instructor to run some questions by him. I've noticed a lot of fixed wing jobs require a college degree. I went to college for a few semesters and found it not to be for me. I learn better from a smaller group and more hands on, If I can put my hands on something and do it, I will learn it.

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As I'm sure you are aware, this is a very tough industry to get into. Nearly every civilian pilot starts off as a flight instructor; so if you want to fly helicopters professionally, it is important to maximize your opportunities at getting a CFI job.

 

As nearly all flight schools use the R22, this is the aircraft that you must gain experience in. Just because you can train in an R44/S300, doesn't mean you should. You will end up w/ $80k+ debt and no job opportunities. Ideally, you should have the bulk of your hours in the R22, with some in the R44/S300; this way you can teach in all three.

 

I attended Bristow Academy in Concord, CA; the only aircraft available was the S300. As such, I was not qualified to teach in the R22 and my job prospects were severely limited. I was extremely fortunate to gain employment at one of the few schools teaching w/ the S300. Since moving on, the school I taught at switched to the R22/R44. Parts availability has been difficult for the S300 since the Sikorsky buyout (or so I've heard) and it is becoming less and less common to find schools utilizing it.

 

You have a family; chasing a random job like tuna boat flying is most likely out of the question. It is also important to remember that you must be prepared to move you and your family anywhere in the country chasing that first job; don't count on residing in your home state. I wanted to live in CA; ended up having to move to NY. I'm five years into my career now, and I'm still working on getting back to CA.

 

I agree with flying pig; if your weight restricts you from flying the R22, you should pursue a career in fixed wing flying. While it seems like a lot of fixed wing pilots are pursuing airline careers, that is not the only option. For example, I know a few airline captains that switched over to flying tours in an AirVan and enjoy it quite a bit. The cost of fixed wing training is also less expensive.

 

Also, apply for every scholarship you can. It's a long shot, but any free $ you can get is surely worth the brief time it takes to fill out an application or write a brief essay.

 

Best of luck to you.

Edited by Hand_Grenade_Pilot
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As big and successful as Bristow seems to be they still closed that Concord branch. Too bad I liked going up there every once and a while to check out the 300. Would have been a good place to finish my IR.

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yeah I'm still looking into Bristow Academy in Louisiana, they are using 300's....I have been searching jobs for after you get hours etc and have noticed under 230 is pretty much a standard....I'll do my best to loose the weight and I will not commit unless I've reached 220 or under goal....I'm not like a heavy big pot belly kinda guy, it's just distributed everywhere...lol

 

 

I'm actually waiting on a call back from a fixed wing chief instructor to run some questions by him. I've noticed a lot of fixed wing jobs require a college degree. I went to college for a few semesters and found it not to be for me. I learn better from a smaller group and more hands on, If I can put my hands on something and do it, I will learn it.

 

Take the college degree requirement with a grain of salt. Few jobs actually require it. A number of the major airlines seek a four year degree at a minimum. It's not necessary for most flying jobs, though when competing with others that have a degree, on occasion those with a degree may hold some competitive advantage.

 

I have no degree. The largest equipment I've flown thus far was the 747. A number of us on that equipment lacked degrees. A degree becomes necessary when either the employer sets it as a requirement, or so many of the competition seeking that job hold a degree that you're unable to compete. This is more common in airline and corporate applications. I've flown corporate, fractional, international airline, cargo, medevac, etc, without a degree. You're better off to have it, but it won't stop your career, if you're determined to move forward.

 

You can always pursue a degree online as you progress through your career. A lot of pilots do, and use their pilot certification toward credit for the degree.

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What Avbug says is pretty much spot on, I don't have a degree an that never stopped me from getting work as a pilot, I will say there were a few occasions where having an A+P would have greased the tracks some, but over all it was not really a factor. Aviation is a strange business, its the first thing to slow when the economy starts to slow, and its the last to recover when the recession is over! You really need to things in aviation- a thick skin and an Iron gut! Flying is just a job, nothing more, thou you can end up working in some neat places, its still just a job, and with helicopters is also a very seasonal thing other than say EMS or Offshore Oil field support! My career never paned out the way I thought it would when I started, different time, these days I just shake my head at what the new guys are taking on in the way of costs to enter the profession, either Rotor or Fixed Wing!

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A&P is a good point. I've been turning wrenches longer than I've been flying. I started in my early teens and continue to maintain aircraft today. The A&P has done far more for me than lack of a degree has hurt me. Some jobs, it makes no difference. Others, it made all the difference. In fact, the mechanic certificate got me my first jet job, in a Sabreliner 60; they wanted a copilot and a director of maintenance; I needed to move and needed work, and it all coincided (got the job from a help wanted ad in trade a plane, no less).

 

A background in aviation maintenance, and the qualifications/credentials to go with it are a big plus, especially in utility aviation. Even if one isn't employed turning wrenches, the mechanical understanding that backs up the certificates is a good thing to have, for any pilot.

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...Aviation is a strange business, its the first thing to slow when the economy starts to slow, and its the last to recover when the recession is over!...

 

The recession's over? Could've fooled me!

:o

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