tradford Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I've replayed this clip numerous times trying to figure out how they lost their tail rotor. It must have happened before the clip starts. http://www.today.com/video/star-wars-sequel-already-smashing-records-before-even-opening-570696771567 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curyfury Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Your link doesnt show the crash anymore, but i think i know which one you are talking about. When i saw it, i was wondering how two people died from it. A lot of spinning going on, but not much of a high descent rate before impact. Im wondering if they hit their heads hard enough or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradford Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 How about this one. I'm guessing the helicopter caught fire and they were burned to death. http://www.today.com/video/helicopter-spins-out-of-control-during-crash-that-kills-2-in-california-569869891792 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyD Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 full video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Were they trying to set it on a cart? Im not understanding why they were having so much trouble with the landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Yeah they were trying to set it on a dolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyD Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 at :52 if you look at the hood line of the silver car you will see a red dolly and subsequently the pilot appears to misjudge his skid position reference the dolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Then it appears to be a micro variation of the deadly "Getthereitis" Very sad. The pilot was clearly not comfortable landing on a cart in any way shape or form. Edited November 21, 2015 by Flying Pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 He also was pointed downwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curyfury Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Shouldnt the fuselage be spinning clockwise? I Thought once the engine stops providing torque, it would start spinning with the main rotor. It almost seems like the rotors are feeding into the opposite rotation of the fuselage. Whoa, just noticed above our picture frame to the left (<-----) it says above if you are a pvt, com, cfi, or veteran poster. How is this info located and linked to the website cause i doubt the moderators did a background check of everyone? Edited November 21, 2015 by Curyfury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Apparently, the pilot made a comment to the tower; “They didn’t chock my cart. It was like a skateboard out here,” …. The word "was" is significant... This will, and has already, started a debate about the usefulness of dollies…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Cury: Friction on the ground. Knowing the dolly wasn't chocked, doesn't make sense he didn't set down on the asphalt next to the dolly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Shouldnt the fuselage be spinning clockwise? I Thought once the engine stops providing torque, it would start spinning with the main rotor. It almost seems like the rotors are feeding into the opposite rotation of the fuselage. Whoa, just noticed above our picture frame to the left (<-----) it says above if you are a pvt, com, cfi, or veteran poster. How is this info located and linked to the website cause i doubt the moderators did a background check of everyone? As long as the engine is running, it’s providing torque. In this case, the running engine is still connected to the transmission so the torque to being generated from the engine to the transmission. In AIRBUS products, the rotor system rotates in the opposite direction of other makes, such as Bells, MD’s or Robinsons…. T/R failure in an Astar is indicated by a left (counterclockwise) yaw… Edited November 21, 2015 by Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippiesdrainage Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's not just dollies, AStars are notorious for their difficult hovers and set downs which is why the squirrel is an appropriate name. Mixing a moving dolly, a difficult ship to hover and the stress of setting it down on a very specific spot is already difficult. I'm wondering if the rear portion of his skids caught the dolly and when he pulled power it became a pivot point pulling the tail into the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Like a lot of people here, I have thousands of dolly cart landings. Its just never been an issue. This scenario has a lot of aspects. The dolly cart is the least of them. Unless that cart specifically is determined to have a flaw. Helicopters land on anything and everything all day and even all night in some cases. But yet when a helicopter comes back to one of the most controlled locations possible to operate a helicopter and crashes on a level platform 10 inches high, suddenly dolly carts are dangerous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 The cart is not the problem here, decision making was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethisbike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's not just dollies, AStars are notorious for their difficult hovers and set downs which is why the squirrel is an appropriate name. Mixing a moving dolly, a difficult ship to hover and the stress of setting it down on a very specific spot is already difficult. I'm wondering if the rear portion of his skids caught the dolly and when he pulled power it became a pivot point pulling the tail into the ground What makes the AStar any more difficult to hover or pickup/setdown than any other helicopter?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) What makes the AStar any more difficult to hover or pickup/setdown than any other helicopter?? http://www.justhelicopters.com/RESOURCES/JHFORUMS/JHAlternateForum/tabid/180/forumid/1/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/11062/Default.aspx Edited November 21, 2015 by Spike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethisbike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Interesting read through that thread. The 90 day currency comment gave me a chuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 There's another video floating around of a Squirrel trying to land on a dolly and ending up an insurance right off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) at :52 if you look at the hood line of the silver car you will see a red dolly and subsequently the pilot appears to misjudge his skid position reference the dolly You’re correct, the helicopter ends up touching-down off the rear of the dolly in a Teeter totter action, bouncing off the tail, before they loose control. Landing like that, touching-down mid skid, can also setup a ground resonance (Called “dynamic divergence” by Airbus). If there are any issues with the aircraft or dolly prior to your attempt to land on a dolly, make a landing to the ground and correct the issues before any additional attempts to the dolly. It appears either the bouncing action off the tail damaged the tail rotor, tail rotor drive shaft, or the helicopter inadvertently slid off the edge of the dolly and the front right skid caught the edge of the dolly as they tried to recover; consequentially, rolling them over and severing the tail. With that rate of rotation, it’s almost impossible for any pilot to get his hand down to the fuel control or cutoff lever; moreover, to do so, he would have to let go of the collective. '>https://youtu.be/_y2omnU9HJ0 Another Dolly Landing Gone Bad https://youtu.be/z_kuB0SCCe4'>https://youtu.be/z_kuB0SCCe4 Edited November 22, 2015 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) https://youtu.be/cWWKx7pj5-Q https://youtu.be/L_JDouQEFxg'>https://youtu.be/L_JDouQEFxg Edited November 22, 2015 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curyfury Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Having the opportunity recently to get some stick time in an astar, i can say that the whole "if you can fly a robbie, you can fly anything" is like saying "the future shortage of pilots in inevitable", its just a sales pitch. Ive flown 44's with hydraulics, so i dont know why hovering is such a challenge in an astar. But just like a 22, give it 5 lessons or so and you'll get better at it. I was actually told i have the robbie shuffle where i am inputting too much into the cyclic. When the real pic does it, his hands barely move the cyclic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 If they can't land on a big square dolly I could only imagine how hard it'd be for them to land on top of an AG truck or a transport trailer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Let's face it..... In a lot of helo jobs and especially private ownership flying something like a dolly cart landing is a top end skill. When you do utility type work, Ag or other dirty jobs you are in situations that you would either be fired if that wasn't your job, or as a private owner using your helicopter for VIP transport you would just never encounter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.