Disappointed

[MckeeC]

So it's been a goal of mine for a long time now to someday become an Army aviator. Next month it'll be a year since I graduated from Embry Riddle. I have my private pilots license and instrument rating with around 300 hours and had planned to join the Army as a warrant officer after college. In April of last year I was talking to recruiters about doing so and about what the requirements were. I went through the process. Was told by the MEPS doctor I needed lasik (which I expected because my eyes weren't great) so I decided to shell out 5k towards that last December. I had to wait 6 months according to the Army in order to come back and have my eyes checked again after having lasik.

 

So I continued the application process while I was waiting. Getting all my letters of recommendation, filling out all the required information, and taking all the tests. All while working three jobs to pay off my school loans, lasik payments, and bills.

 

Two weeks ago I went to do the final part of my WOFT Packet, the flight physical. More specifically, the last part of the physical, which was the eye portion. Only to be told I am disqualified for anything flying related because apparently before I ever had lasik my eyes failed the minimum requirements.

 

My heart sank and I felt a feeling I never had before. It was quite literally the saddest and most disappointing day of my entire life. I don't envy the position of the doctor because she obviously didn't like the be the one to crush someone's dreams but that's exactly what happened.

 

All I've felt ever since it's a mixture of frustration, disappointment, and discouragement. I can't understand how a doctor does not know the lasik requirements. Don't get me wrong, I love lasik. Waking up in the morning being able to see is a wonderful thing. But I have a ton of student loan debt I was already struggling to pay off with two jobs living with my parents.

 

Aside from that, I really had no backup plan. No one's problem but mine now but I didn't want a backup plan. I was going to do whatever it was going to take to become an Army aviator. I still can't imagine myself doing anything but flying. I know I won't be happy with anything else. I've spent all this money on a degree and my license and I can't even do anything with them.

 

It's frustrating. I have no idea what I'm going to do at this point. I'm not against the airlines or commercial pilot jobs but I can't get any flying job with only 300 hours. I have no way to build hours nor the money. I feel like I'm stuck now.

 

I just felt like I had to vent and since I've spent the last year and a half of my life on this forum I figured this would be the place. I don't expect anyone to know what I should do with my life. Other than venting I don't really know the point of me wasting your time with this right now.

 

Maybe someone will have some advice or story about how they were denied a chance to fly. I know everything happens for a reason, I keep saying it to myself and have heard it from just about everyone I know. It's just hard to see what the future holds anymore. I've always had a plan in life. Get my pilots license, go to school, join the Army as a Warrant Officer. Now I don't know.

 

I do appreciate you listening to me ramble on. Any advice would be appreciated. Good luck to all you future military aviators. I envy you all.

 

Caleb

[RagMan]

Shouldn't matter as long as your eyes meet the requirements post surgery. Hard to believe.

 

I'd try to get a waiver from a civilian Doctor, maybe an Aviation Medical Examiner, and send that up the chain. Typically a recommendation from the civilian side will sometimes clear things up.

[zaurus]

Assuming you have a 4 yr degree, have you applied to the other services for flight training? What's your reasoning in taking on all this debt, when you could have applied for Army WOFT as a HS graduate only and no flight time if that was your number one goal?

 

You heard all the horror stories at Embry Riddle and you still went forward with the dream. If you have commercial aspirations, that's still doable. But, it damn sure won't be easy.

[RagMan]

I'd take a crack shot at Coast Guard, being an Embry Riddle grad.

[MckeeC]

It seems crazy to me too that what my eyes were before the surgery would matter at all. The doctor at Fort Drum said unfortunately it does matter though. There is a waiverable limit and then there is the limit outside that which is not waverable. I'm unfortunately in the unwaiverable category.

 

Also when I started college I wasn't 100% sure of the path I wanted to take. I knew whether I went airlines, corporate, or Army college would look good and hopefully help me get a spot. Sadly I spent all that money and wasn't able to finish my commercial or instructor rating.

[Jhanner1]

How old are you? And what exactly was the problem with your vision?

[zaurus]

Ok, the Army said no go. What about the other services? Each service has different requirements.

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

You went to an aviation college and trained in airplanes... With the long term goal of flying helicopters? And how on earth does one rack up 300 hours w/out getting a commercial license, CFI, and CFII?

 

Needless to say, you really didn't think things through. And to be frank, it sounds like you washed out of flight school (couldn't meet commercial standards) and hoped to use the army as a life raft.

 

Whatever the case is, I'll toss you something supportive.

 

Apply to join a police department (assuming you have a clean criminal record and no history of drug use). One with a huge aviation department, such as LAPD, NYPD or CHP. Starting pay is better than any job you can get now with no other qualifications, which will help w/ staying on top of your loans. After a few years working the streets, hopefully your flight experience makes you competitive for the aviation unit. Then get your commercial ticket using department funds.

[BrightShadow]

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/WOEligibility.shtml

 

Paragraph 3, "...and have 20/50 distant visual acuity, correctable with spectacles to 20/20, also note there is an Aeromedical refractive error exception to policy (LASIK/PRK information)."

 

I cannot open the LASIK/PRK information link. Maybe there is something helpful in there?

 

Also it says 'correctable with spectacles to 20/20'...means you can wear glasses. I know what you said the Dr. said but what has a WO Recruiter said? I don't want to give you false hope man but based of what you have said, you may not be DQed. Would be REALLY tragic for you to walk away from the dream now only to learn years later you would have been able to submit.

[Brian101193]

Just call Rucker and speak to someone down there, they are the end all be all on this stuff.

[BrightShadow]

Just call Rucker and speak to someone down there, they are the end all be all on this stuff.

^^^This, messaged you a number w/POC. Best of luck.

[MckeeC]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I will definitely try Rucker to see what they say. I said I would do whatever I can to make this work.

 

I have considered the law enforcement route as well. The only problem I have right now with that is it would require me to relocate. While I have no problem moving anywhere in the world, the problem comes with being able to afford to do so. It's tough enough without paying for a place to live now. My eyes will be paid off soon though which is one less large expense so it's definitely something I'm considering in the future.

[BM1]

There is a minimum pre surgery spec. I know I read it in when I was getting PRK, so look in the aeromed publication about what is the minimum pre surgery eyesight. Your waiver chance during this time of drawdowns is basically nothing, so If you do still pursue that process you had better be looking for another job at the same time. If you still want to be around aircraft I would suggest looking into being a Navigator with the Air Force, I believe the eyesight restriction isn't part of the physical. The other possibility on the Warrant side would be UAV's or ATC, but I think both of those would require previous military experience and would require enlisting and serving some time.

 

If I was in your spot I would seriously start looking into the Air Force.

[zVo]

I had PRK before I applied for a WOFT slot. Unfortunately, I know what MckeeC is talking about and it's true -- the Army does care what your "pre-op" vision parameters were (they go off of measured min/max limits for your diopters). It's very stupid in my opinion. For those that care to Google it, Army aeromed measures your cycloplegic refraction ... as I understand, all the military services measure and compare the pre-op and post-op for their aviator candidates with corrective eye surgery. I had my flight physical done through the Navy and I remember their flight doc -- who transcribed the results of my testing to the required Army forms -- that I was well within the Navy's standards for allowable pre-op parameters and that the Army's was much more restrictive.

 

Anyway.

 

MckeeC, your only option at this point is to get an exception to policy waiver. It's 100% possible but not 100% guaranteed. You're gonna have to fight to get it approved. The WOFT application is really a testament to how dedicated an applicant is to joining ... the Army makes it difficult and I'd wager that it's probably one of the hardest entry programs in all of the services because the recruiters are inept, the information flow is difficult, and the WOFT packet is not civilian-friendly.

 

Get a backup plan, too. Finish your fixed-wing commercial ratings and look into companies like Ameriflight which will give you tremendous experience off the bat -- or even the regional airlines, they're hurting right now and a lot of them are fixing their pay issues due to lack of applicants. Just my $0.02.

[zaurus]

McKeeC

 

What was your 4yr GPA and age?

[pilothooks]

I could not get an exception to policy 16 months ago with my astigmatism being a half diopter off in one eye. How do you have 300 hours and no CFI? Sounds like Embry screwed you over.

[Hotdogs]

I could be wrong but 20/80 corrected to 20/20 is the Navy/Marine standard. Not sure about pre-op minimums, and honestly I have never heard of them. I'm a lucky guy who has always had 20/20 or better.

 

http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Documents/12_Ophthalmology_150430r.pdf

 

Sections 12.15 and 12.16 is where you need to look specifically page 24 and 25. Correction: Pre-op refractive limits are +3.00 to -8.00. Not sure how that translates.

[MckeeC]

I will look into the exception to policy waiver for sure. I'm surprised the aviation doctor at Fort Drum didn't mention that to me.

 

I would really like to finish my commercial but the reason I didn't complete it while at Riddle was because I ran out of funds. I work 3 jobs right now to pay off school and can't afford to fly anymore sadly. I graduated last December with a GPA of around 2.8 I believe. I'm 24 now so I have plenty of time but it's just frustrating to spend all that money on school just to work jobs I could have worked without a degree.

[Luofynerd]

Talk about disappointments, first failed my last physical for my eyes. Managed to get my whole packet done in the time since besides waiting on my physical for prk waiver, now I get orders for recruiter duty. The hell.

[pilothooks]

Talk about disappointments, first failed my last physical for my eyes. Managed to get my whole packet done in the time since besides waiting on my physical for prk waiver, now I get orders for recruiter duty. The hell.

damn dude

[ndcody]

I could not get an exception to policy 16 months ago with my astigmatism being a half diopter off in one eye. How do you have 300 hours and no CFI? Sounds like Embry screwed you over.

 

 

I believe I am in the same situation you are where my astigmatism is half a diopter off in my right eye. Was there anything you could do to get the exception to policy or did they basically say never come back?

[Luofynerd]

 

 

I believe I am in the same situation you are where my astigmatism is half a diopter off in my right eye. Was there anything you could do to get the exception to policy or did they basically say never come back?

Have you had PRK? I was out for astigmatism when I took my flight physical. Had 1.75 on both eyes limit is 1.50, max being 8? I believe. Needless to say it added 120+ days to my packet. I had to wait 30 days to get the surgery, and now I'm waiting 90 days to get the waiver. (29 days to go). If you haven't had PRK it's definitely worth the time and money. I seeeee soooooo gooooood!

[ndcody]

Have you had PRK? I was out for astigmatism when I took my flight physical. Had 1.75 on both eyes limit is 1.50, max being 8? I believe. Needless to say it added 120+ days to my packet. I had to wait 30 days to get the surgery, and now I'm waiting 90 days to get the waiver. (29 days to go). If you haven't had PRK it's definitely worth the time and money. I seeeee soooooo gooooood!

I had the PRK surgery however I think my eyes are outside of what they consider fixable. I think I will need a ETP waiver aswell.

[Luofynerd]

I had the PRK surgery however I think my eyes are outside of what they consider fixable. I think I will need a ETP waiver aswell.

Good luck!

[MckeeC]

Well it's been a long time since I last posted. As the title says, I was disappointed to hear I had no chance of becoming an Army Aviator but I wasn't about to give up. I followed some advice given by some of you and ended up getting in contact with doctors at Fort Rucker who looked into my situation. I was told that the doctors at Fort Drum who told me I was a no-go were wrong, my eye issue was waiverable.

 

Had to go back to Fort Drum though because when I was there for my physical last time they didn't want to even go through with the rest of the stuff to complete my physical because of my eyes. So on February 3rd I went back up there and spent 14 hours finishing up my physical.

 

We weren't sure whether or not I would have to complete the Battalion Board since it's been months since I had previously but was told last week that would not be the case. Fortunately that meant all I was waiting for was an Exception to Policy waiver and for my physical to be stamped.

 

I was told today that both of those have been completed and that I'll be up for the USAREC board in March! As you can probably imagine, I'm very excited! It's been a long time waiting for this to happen but it finally is. I started talking to a recruiter in April of 2014 and nearly 2 years later I will finally get the chance to have my packet in front of the board.

 

Thank you all for your help and encouragement! I have been on these forums reading all the posts I can and I see people with all sorts of problems like mine. Whatever you do, don't give up! It's been a long process for myself and even after being told it wasn't going to happen I continued to try and made it work out.

 

Everyone here says the application process is what weeds so many people out and I definitely can see why! I know the waiting is FAR from over but so glad I'll have my chance at the board.