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Be careful on those ferry flights this winter. IIMC is just a brain fart away!

IIMC R44 ferry flight time building instrument rating

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#21 Mikemv

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:18

I have heard many stories from too many pilots about being very close to the deck essentially scud-running to stay VFR while on a ferry flight.  I've also read many accident reports of pilots crashing while doing the same!  I myself had a run in with IIMC scud-running on a ferry flight!  That's why I started this thread (the ferry flight I almost got myself killed on was found in this sub-forum).

 

So again, if you are not considering one of these ferry flight offers, or are a pilot who flies in the same area all the time in an IFR ship, or while wearing NVGs and thus are best buddies with IIMC, don't be offended by what I write here.  Its not directed at you!

 

To all you time builders out there considering one of these ferry flight offers; don't slow down, don't go lower, and don't be afraid to just tell that guy next to you (who's R44 this most likely is) lets wait for the weather to get better!

Fortunate,

 

Here is a better than PISS OFF reply.

 

Read and understand the USHST Safety Bulletin.

 

http://www.ihst.org/...aining_IIMC.pdf

 

Know how to use En route Decision Points (EDPs).

 

Apply industry Best Practices.

 

 

How to Avoid IIMC

Get a good forecast for departure, enroute, and arrival.

Avoid flight in Marginal VFR (MVFR).

Check weather ahead of you enroute,

use ATC & Flight Watch.

Use planned Enroute Decision Points

(EDP)s.

Recognize signs



#22 Wally

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 14:43

 

We don't have the equipment you do!  We don't get to practice IIMC recovery in the SIM as you do!  So YES, IF YOU'RE ON A FERRY FLIGHT AND SEE DETERIORATING WEATHER IN FRONT OF YOU, DON'T SLOW DOWN!  DON'T GO LOWER!  BECAUSE IT MEANS YOU ARE TRYING TO STAY VFR!  WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID!

 

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ADVICE I'M GIVING TO OTHERS WHO MIGHT END UP IN THE SAME SITUATION THAT I WAS IN THEN JUST PISS OFF!!!

 

Got a map? Use it to pick a route with frequent, survivable and comfortable options that you would use. Add a little flight time and add a lot of lifetime.

Do not go slower and do not go lower than customary cruise unless you're landing. If you're IFR capable, the rule is magnitudes more applicable. Works from whiskey compass only, up through full autopilot.

Worked for me since 1968.


Edited by Wally, 17 December 2015 - 14:45.

Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#23 Spike

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 20:36

Great points Mike and Wally.

 

For me, it’s amazing how people rationalize.. That is, “don’t make the mistake I did”…. And, the mistake isn’t descending or slowing down. The initial mistake is taking off. The next mistake is not landing 30 seconds ago…. The last mistake is losing sight of the ground….. Strike 3……

 

For the audience in question, if weather is marginal, don’t go. End of story...


Edited by Spike, 17 December 2015 - 20:37.

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#24 Pohi

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:46

 
Add a little flight time and add a lot of lifetime.


That's a great quote, Wally. Suitable for many different scenarios.

#25 Jaybee

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 15:43

Whenever the talk on the forums turns to people asking about doing a fixed wing private and then adding on helicopter it seems to devolve pretty quickly into a pissing match about who thinks they know better. A perspective I would like to add is - since I am a Private Airplane pilot along with Commercial Helicopter - Instrument - I've spent the last month punching holes in clouds in a little Cessna 150. For someone who's never been PIC of an aircraft in actual IMC I think it is an experience you are missing out on. Plenty of IFR rated and capable airplanes out there for reasonable price (I'm paying $55 dry for the 150) where as that option doesn't readily exist in helicopters. Long story short, airplane experience is overly downplayed on this forum, IMHO.


"In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks." — Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900. 
 
"The foot rests have a profound impact on the outcome of today's flight ending safely" - My flight instructor.

#26 Spike

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 22:56

While I appreciate your input, attempting to practice IFR is different from IIMC in a helicopter….. Especially in a fixed wing…. To wit, my first IIMC sim lesson, I lost control of the helicopter immediately… That is, immediately even when the sim instructor told me when I was going to punch in...... I also fly fixed wing and it’s great for IFR procedures but this is vastly different than IIMC in a 350… Never mind in a Robinson product…… 



#27 Jaybee

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 08:13

Guess that really didn't come across as I meant it.

 

I did not mean for someone to get comfortable in IMC in an airplane then think its no big deal in a helicopter.

 

The point I was trying to make is that most instrument rated helicopter pilots have never punched through a layer. I was encouraging them to do so - in an appropriately rated airplane, so that they may see how disorientating and overwhelming it could be. As you noted, in a positively dynamic stable machine - airplane - it can be a challenge.


"In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks." — Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900. 
 
"The foot rests have a profound impact on the outcome of today's flight ending safely" - My flight instructor.

#28 Spike

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:49

Roger that Jaybee.... Understood and I agree.... And, unless you practice regularly, the more time you have flying VMC, the harder IIMC will be....





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