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How do you log flight time?


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For those of us that need crayons and whiteboards...

 

Logging SIC time during progression and prior to PC orders.

 

Then log PIC time once you are PC and are the PC of that flight for that aircraft.

 

Is that okay per the regs?

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For those of us that need crayons and whiteboards...

 

Logging SIC time during progression and prior to PC orders.

 

Then log PIC time once you are PC and are the PC of that flight for that aircraft.

 

Is that okay per the regs?

That's what I'm leaning to doing also. I know some people that log PIC time for every flight they do for the entire flight though, even though I'm sure they weren't on the controls the whole time, so that wouldn't even be right per the FAA technically

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The thing is, when your PIC time doest match your DA759 PC time, if your employer asks.

 

You will need to explain yourself.

 

IF your employer senses integrity issues, you've already started out bad. How can you substantiate those hours in an Army aircraft?

 

Logging per 95-1 is advised to prevent those akward little situations. Like velocity said digging for hours is just not a good idea.

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Any situation that would make things easier. In B and C airspace, though, it's more difficult for general aviation airplanes. It's a lot more dangerous with fewer options.

 

As far as other types of flying the FAA has too many penalties for sharing on the Internet.

Please. Don't be "that guy" in flight school. The more you talk the more you convey your inexperience.

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The thing is, when your PIC time doest match your DA759 PC time, if your employer asks.

 

You will need to explain yourself.

 

IF your employer senses integrity issues, you've already started out bad. How can you substantiate those hours in an Army aircraft?

 

Logging per 95-1 is advised to prevent those akward little situations. Like velocity said digging for hours is just not a good idea.

You have a valid point. I believe I will log all my PI time as Second in Command and PC time as Pilot in Command. Worse case I could explain to them that my time is logged per 95-1 and could give them a rough number for my PIC per FAA. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time they have seen it. I appreciate the input.
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I didn't even log my PI as SIC. It was just flight time. I suppose you could default it to SIC but If you look in the FARs (61.55), there's a lot of crap there for being designated SIC that isn't fulfilled by military experience.

 

Now, would the FAA's Chief Counsel have a problem with us logging it as SIC? Doubt it.

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When you all say log it per 95-1 are you talking about start stop time? Or is there something else I missed about how to log types of time in there?

95-1 For computation of flight time and duty position. If I'm not the PC I'm not going to log PIC because only one person per Army regs can be the PC of the flight.

 

When to log, wheels up to engines off.

 

How to log, PC, PI, IP, UT ect..

 

My UT time I counted as PIC for FAA because I was the PC of the aircraft.

 

Same with IP time.

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When you all say log it per 95-1 are you talking about start stop time? Or is there something else I missed about how to log types of time in there?

Simply put, my total helicopter flight time and my PIC flight time from my 759 were the same as in my civ logs.

 

Just makes it easier. Trying to add a .1 here or there on my civ logs isn't worth my time. Won't be the difference in getting a job or not either.

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As to keeping your own record while flying for pay, military or civilian, here's an opinion: unless the definitions and conditions agree, the 'official' record doesn't have to exactly reconcile with your record. I don't remember 95-1 or even the term. I have flown block time contracts where the company was compensated by contractual defined terms. Perhaps maintenance was done by whatever, perhaps even Hobbs, but flight time charged was per the contract, period. I was told that "it averaged out in the long term", and that's fine if you want. I have been promised various things by various parties that were, uh "misunderstandings", I just don't want the stress so I keep my own records. Or did until about 5000 hours ago... All I've logged since are currency items.

 

The FAA logbook criteria are kinda, sorta, almost, somewhat clear as mud, so some variation is to be expected. If you log minutes, the rounding from seconds will vary. If you log tenths of an hour, it will vary occasionally. Same for meters.

 

Same for multi-pilot crew, log exactly it happens. If a multi-pilot crew is required, you would expect that airframe time in service would be half (or whatever) crew flight time...

 

As to "deserving/converting" to compensate, if your co-jo is useless, do you double your flight time to account for extra work? That's outrageous, isn't it? Same for "seat, blade time". Log uniformly and exactly, and let the the discrepancies be somebody else's issue.

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Look at it like this Yamer. You're an Apache dude. When you move the aircraft (ground taxi) for the purpose of flight, you can start logging that by the FAAs definition. You can't by the Army's. This could be significant time if you're taxing out and doing a HIT check or other systems checks or waiting for link up with chalk 2. That might be a good 10-15 minutes added to your civ time.

 

Now, where it hurts as far as logging civ is on flight termination. When you come in to rest into parking after your flight, you're done as far as the FAA is concerned. Doesn't matter that your engines are still running. The Army time however continues to run until you shutdown that second engine. This time however, generally won't make up for that 10-15 minute taxi for departure, therefore you can most likely get a .1 on that flight in your civ log over your Army log. As I said I didn't do that but yet I have no problem with those that do.

 

The PIC thing. In the Army you can only have one logging it for that flight. That is a briefed PIC. The FAA looks at it that way as well but they also allow for a non briefed PIC to log PIC if they're the sole manipulator of the controls and they are rated in category and class (type doesn't apply). So, in your civ logs, even if you weren't the briefed PIC, you can legally log that time as PIC if you're up in your little gunners seat and wiggling sticks. As I said, I didn't log it that way but I also don't have any problems with people who do.

 

Wally brings up an important point as well. A lot of professional pilots don't even log all their time. No requirement to do so unless it's for currency. Once you get tens of thousands of hours, no point in logging every little thing I guess.

 

Also, you kids stop padding your "W" time just because it's hazy and can't see the horizon!😀

Edited by Velocity173
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I don't log the extra time to account for the difference between 95-1 flight time and FAR flight time. However, I do log PIC and SIC when I fly.

 

When you are in flight school (advanced airframe), you cannot log PIC at all per the FARs because you are not rated in the aircraft yet. Technically, you can't log SIC either for the same reason. However, if you are already a "rotorcraft, helicopter" rated pilot, then you could log SIC according to 61.51(f)(2). That's what I did. I logged all time in the 60 course as SIC (actually, I didn't but I went back and added it all back up as SIC).

 

Now, after flight school, I logged PIC time per the FAA definition. I log all time when I am "sole manipulator of the controls" as PIC time. No, I don't literally time it, but I know pretty well how much of the mission I was on the controls. Sometimes it's only .2, but sometimes it's the entire flight. I log the rest of the flight as SIC time.

 

I also log a separate column as "Military PC Time". This is where I'll log all my Army PC time once I make PC. Once I make PC, I'm going to log all flights where I am PC of the aircraft as "Military PC Time" and "FAA PIC" time. Any time I'm not designated as PC for the flight, I will log as I have been (PIC when I am the sole manipulator of the controls).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the military does not allow you to log multiple flight status's at the same time either(i.e., Night, NG, Hood, Day, etc.). The FAA does. So if I go on a night flight and I log 1.0-N (unaided), 2.0-NG, and .5-H on the -12, I would log 3.5-Night, 2.0-NG, and .5-Sim Inst in my logbook.

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Look at it like this Yamer. You're an Apache dude. When you move the aircraft (ground taxi) for the purpose of flight, you can start logging that by the FAAs definition. You can't by the Army's. This could be significant time if you're taxing out and doing a HIT check or other systems checks or waiting for link up with chalk 2. That might be a good 10-15 minutes added to your civ time.

 

Now, where it hurts as far as logging civ is on flight termination. When you come in to rest into parking after your flight, you're done as far as the FAA is concerned. Doesn't matter that your engines are still running. The Army time however continues to run until you shutdown that second engine. This time however, generally won't make up for that 10-15 minute taxi for departure, therefore you can most likely get a .1 on that flight in your civ log over your Army log. As I said I didn't do that but yet I have no problem with those that do.

 

The PIC thing. In the Army you can only have one logging it for that flight. That is a briefed PIC. The FAA looks at it that way as well but they also allow for a non briefed PIC to log PIC if they're the sole manipulator of the controls and they are rated in category and class (type doesn't apply). So, in your civ logs, even if you weren't the briefed PIC, you can legally log that time as PIC if you're up in your little gunners seat and wiggling sticks. As I said, I didn't log it that way but I also don't have any problems with people who do.

 

Wally brings up an important point as well. A lot of professional pilots don't even log all their time. No requirement to do so unless it's for currency. Once you get tens of thousands of hours, no point in logging every little thing I guess.

 

Also, you kids stop padding your "W" time just because it's hazy and can't see the horizon!😀

Thank you!

 

So, Celica... i have my night time laid out as a night total (say 3.0), then columns for what I did that night (say 1.5 NS 1.5 NVG). A night unaided flight would be blank for the NVG and NS column but my night total column would have the unaided time. Is that correct?

Edited by Yamer
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I know people that do it acouple ways. Some log it like you said. Others log it all three separate. If they fly unaided then that time goes under Night, if they fly NVG or NVS then that time only goes in those slots. Then if they want all their night time then they just add all three at the bottom of the page together. It seems like it's all pretty much personal preference

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