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I would first like to know what checkride you went to that was only 20 minutes of ground?

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I was wondering the same thing. To be fair, 30 minutes is the perfect amount of time to ask your name, what rating you are going for, your login for iacra, process the paperwork, and print the temporary certificate.

 

To answer your question, OP, the reason it says 3.2 (or 3.6) is because if anyone found out they were handing out certificates without even attempting to adequately check your knowledge, then there would be some very serious consequences.

 

At 30 minutes of ground, you aren't paying for a checkride and earning your certificate, you are simply paying for your certificate.

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I was wondering the same thing. To be fair, 30 minutes is the perfect amount of time to ask your name, what rating you are going for, your login for iacra, process the paperwork, and print the temporary certificate.

 

To answer your question, OP, the reason it says 3.2 (or 3.6) is because if anyone found out they were handing out certificates without even attempting to adequately check your knowledge, then there would be some very serious consequences.

 

At 30 minutes of ground, you aren't paying for a checkride and earning your certificate, you are simply paying for your certificate.

 

I see what you mean. For the ground portion I believe we covered everything in the practical test standards.

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I'm not saying that you did anything wrong and I'm sure that you adequately answered everything that you were asked. You did your part, I just suspect that the DPE didn't do his part.

 

If you were applying for an additional rating, a lot of the required tasks from the PTS are satisfied with your previous rating. Even if thats the case, 30 minutes is a ridiculously fast ground portion... to the point of being inadequate.

 

For an initial, the cross country scenereo alone should take longer than that.

 

I'm by no means the bar by which the standard should be set, but last month I was asked to basically do the same exact thing as what a typical scenereo would be.

 

The office wanted me to estimate as close as I could first, if it was even possible, and second how much flight time it would take to go pick up these people, fly them out to a remote location (with no available fuel), and bring them back to their original place, and fly back to the base.

 

That took me at least 20 minutes and I was just planning the flight and not explaining how and why I was doing what I was doing. No explanation of weather, airspace, NOATMs,etc. Weight and balance was automatically done by the computer, as well as the legs (time, distance, and heading).

 

There is a reason why the FAA prohibits a DPE from doing more than 2 checkrides a day without written authorization. If they could knock out a whole checkride in 2-3 hours that number would be much higher.

 

My point is that the reason that the DPE fudged the numbers from 20 minutes to 3 hours is because 3 hours is about how long it should have taken, and your DPE knows it.

 

Thats for you, Butters.... that dpe sees nothing wrong with fudging the logbooks a little.

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Pohi hit the nail on the head. There are 2 extremes to check rides. 6 hours for a private? Ridiculous, in that it should not be that in depth at that level. 30 minutes for a private? Also ridiculous, in that there is no possible way to ascertain one's knowledge base on all required PTS topics in that amount of time. 30 minutes should probably have been spent on weather alone. That DPE needs to be seriously looked at. There is a very real danger of unqualified pilots out there because of this type of lax examination.

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Also, I will add this disclaimer:

 

Almost every one of us would gladly accept a 30 minute checkride and be on our merry way with our brand new certificate.

 

 

I think we just want the OP to know that it is not right, and may mean that you are not as qualified as you think you are. Think long and hard about that statement. What if your next checkride is with a DPE who is a true professional and expects the level of knowledge and skill to be at the standard that is "normal"? You may prepare yourself for that next checkride with this last one in mind. That is when it will become clear whether you simply "paid for your certificate" or if you truly are so good at ground that 30 minutes is all you need.

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On my last job interview (for the job I did get) I was asked nothing, not one damn thing about flying! No regs, no weather, no ep's,...nothing!

 

,...doesn't mean I didn't study my ass off beforehand!

 

I am willing to bet that you are a more than qualified Private Pilot!

 

By the way on my Private checkride he didn't do a throttle chop. Does that mean I wasn't qualified to do them?,...f**k no, I'm awesome at throttle chops, my instructor made sure of that!

 

,...even if the DPE didn't care to check!

Edited by r22butters
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The assumption that 30 minutes is wrong may not necessarily be true. Questions and observations can continue in the air.

Two interesting points on that thought. On the same page, both already highlighted by the FAA.

 

First being that the adherence to the regs and the PTS is mandatory, and second that the ground portion shall be completed before the flight portion.

 

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I'd love to sit in on a checkride while the DPE gives the ground portion during the flight.

 

"While we do this pinnacle to a confined area, why dont you, while telling me what you are doing for your high recon and performing the maneuver to a slope landing, also describe the different types of hypoxia and which case you would be most susceptible to at this time.

 

And, since you mentioned that there might be a slope landing, also describe dynamic rollover and what are the requirements and ways to minimize the risk"

 

Or ...

 

"Simulated engine failure!!! While you are doing this auto, grab the poh and lets do a weight and balance. "

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Please show me where it says what Areas of Operation must be accomplished on the ground. Also, please show me where I said there was no ground prior to flight.

 

Area I can easily be accomplished in 30 minutes.

 

Yes, your first scenario is pretty much exactly how all 8 of my checkrides were.

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Oh my, eight checkrides!?! Thats amazing.

 

You seem to be arguing for the pure sake of arguing and don't seem to be thinking about the practicality of what you are suggesting.

 

30 minutes to adequately do Area I, including the cross country scenereo for a private student is unrealistic. Easily accomplished in 30 minutes, yeah right. I'd love to hear what questions you think could be asked and answered in 30 minutes that covers all that material. Seriously.

 

Keep in mind, the PTS says that the examiners responsibility is that they "shall test to the greatest extent practicable the applicants correlative abilities rather than mere rote enumeration of facts throughout the test."

 

As well as judiciously use oral testing of knowledge, especially during the flight portion of the test. Not a direct quote, feel free to look it up.

 

So, keeping that in mind, what questions and scenereos can be asked that cover all of Area I..

to the required level, in 30 min?

 

Most private students are nervous enough just performing the maneuvers with the DPE, and you think it makes sense to grill them about unrelated stuff the whole time they are trying to fly? Heck, even constantly asking them stuff thats even semi related isn't right. Now, they are at a high stress time, being graded on knowledge... which makes that performance less, as well as extra stress on the maneuver itself? For a private? Get real.

 

I'm not saying that you didn't rock your checkrides, probably did all the grounds in less that 20 minutes and .6 on the flights. Well done.

 

Obviously, it's done. And just as obvious, it's not done adequately. DPE's are just people getting paid to do a job. Some people take pride in their job and do it to the best of their abilities. Some dont. Some cut corners and do as little as they possibly can and still do the job right. Others do even less than that, some people don't even do their job right, and I've even heard of people that do their job so wrong that they are criminally liable. That DPE in question, as well as any other that does 30 minute checkrides, falls somewhere on that scale. Probably not the top, maybe not the bottom, but in the lower scale.

 

I shouldn't need to spell out whats ground school/knowledge and whats flight maneuvers/knowledge. But, we can agree that the ground portion has to be finished first.

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I'm not suggesting, that was my experience.

 

Your assertion that it wasn't done correctly is not only not based in fact, it is downright rude.

 

I guess I was graced by God to not have pedantic nit wits for examiners.

 

The fact that you can't imagine a scenario where the topic areas are adequately covered in an efficient manner is quite telling.

 

Good job totally not responding to the question I asked you and writing grandstanding conjecture instead. You should run for office.

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The fact that you think that you think that 30 minutes is enough to adequately cover all of the ground portion of a checkride is also quite telling.

 

Call me rude if you want, I prefer to call it realistic. Ive seen tons of checkrides done by several different DPE's and FAA inspectors both in the airplane and helicopter world. The only time the ground was that short is when they immediately failed or there was a discontinuance.

 

Its not your fault that your DPE's did a poor job. It's not your fault. I'm sure that you had all the knowledge and experience or else your instructor wouldn't have signed you off. Unless, of course, your instructor was aware of the quality of the checkrides given. But even then, I'm sure that you studied and prepared to an outstanding level.

 

My issue isn't with you, so don't take it personal. My issue is with some of the people giving checkrides and not the people getting them. Unless you are a DPE giving 30 minute checkrides, and then you are doing it wrong.

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