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Pop-up TFR


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So then it would be;

 

You violated our TFR!

 

TFR? I checked at 14:30 there were no TFRs.

 

It was posted at 14:40.

 

Tuff sh*t then is what you're saying?

 

 

No, I didn't say that. You just said that.

 

The majority of "pop up" TFR's are emergency related. I've spent more time in fire TFR's than any other, and those aren't scheduled or forecast, except for prescribed burns. When someone violates a fire TFR, if an air attack or leadplane is on scene, it will attempt to contact the intruding aircraft. Fire aircraft will be moved away from the fire until the offending aircraft is clear. Depending on circumstance, the position of the intruding airplane may be related to ATC, or the air attack may maneuver close enough to identify the aircraft and pass it on for enforcement action. That happens all the time.

 

Bumble into a Presidential TFR. See how that works out for you.

 

Keeping updated and current on weather, airspace changes, etc, is your responsibility enroute. Fail to do so at your own peril.

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If you obtain your preflight briefing reasonably close to your departure and that it is from an acceptable source you should be fine. I realize the ifs and shoulds but that is a typical nature of legal issues.

 

A few years ago AOPA reported an incident with a pilot in the Southwest that checked with DUATS prior to departure. There was no TFR. One popped up after departure and he flew through it. He was questioned after landing and if I remember correctly action was started. However, he had a documented check by sign-in with an approved source. No further action was taken.

 

Prior to that I used the weather briefings provided by supervisors or the weather briefer of the day. Since then, I check a weather source within 30 minutes before each flight. Used to be DUATS now its Lockheed. The key being it is my sign-in for a registered account at an approved source.

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Keeping updated and current on weather, airspace changes, etc, is your responsibility enroute. Fail to do so at your own peril.

Kinda sounds like I need an app that checks the TFR page every second while I'm in the air and then alerts me when one suddenly pops up in my flightpath?
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Kinda sounds like I need an app that checks the TFR page every second while I'm in the air and then alerts me when one suddenly pops up in my flightpath?

 

 

These days with Foreflight and an ipad, you'll have real time information that does just that, especially with the various equipment (GDL39, Stratus, etc) that will interface with it. Same for many of the avionics available to day through XM weather, and other services.

 

You get real time TFR data, weather, everything, and much of it is nearly as good a FMS in turbojet aircraft. Especially if you're flying VFR, it gives you a wealth of information. Even the ability to plot the course with a profile to see if you'll clear terrain. It's handy. Not just TFR's, but fuel prices, weather reports and graphic weather, all airspace, interactive maps, customizable charts, and so forth make it useful to have available.

 

There's always contacting flight watch for updates enroute.

 

I've spent a number of years doing long, long legs in which the weather and data in the trip packet and flight brief will be 7-10 hours old on arrival (or more); getting enroute weather and other updates is essential, from alternate conditions to political conditions, volcanic ash updates, routing changes, you name it. It's doable and done every day. Keeping yourself informed on a one or two hour trip doesn't seem that big of a hardship.

 

It's the responsibility of being pilot in command, after all: it's something that's expected of you and inherently part of your job every time you launch.

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I once heard a story of two different pilots for two different news networks covering the same fire/incident. There was a development in the incident and both pilots launched. One of them called FSS prior to departure and the other didn't. Both pilots flew through a TFR that popped up after they departed. Guess which pilot had the enforcement action.

 

It is very easy to get information in flight also. I've called up FSS more than once to report smoke I wasn't planning on encountering and to see if there was a TFR.

Edited by crashed_05
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It is very easy to get information in flight also. I've called up FSS more than once to report smoke I wasn't planning on encountering and to see if there was a TFR.

Yes its easy when there's something you see that makes you wonder if a TFR has been issued. I once called them in flight to see if a ballgame TFR was still in effect, they had no idea? I'm guessing they too couldn't give a sh*t about baseball!

 

The problem is when everything looks the way it always does, and you have no reason to think, "I wonder if a TFR has popped up in the last 5 minutes?"

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TFR pops up that you, of course, will not know exits, and you end up flying right through it.

 

What will happen?

 

Nothing, if they don’t get an active aircraft track or your “N” number, which is normally the case for anything but a VIP TFR.

 

If you think you’ve picked up a track, turn toward the nearest non-towered airport off your current heading and land. Wait 20 minutes, then take off and continue to your destination. From then on, you’re *Sgt. Schultz,” I know nothing.”

 

In part, you’re attempting to breaking their chain of evidence. They need positive identification of the aircraft and N number at the end of that track. They also need positive identification of the pilot in that aircraft, that’s why they asked you to identify yourself by giving the tower a telephone call. Tower personnel stand as witnesses that the aircraft that landed was the same aircraft they were tracking and you were the pilot.

 

There’s also the NASA report… Link.. See AC 00-46E

 

Enforcement Restrictions. The FAA considers the filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or occurrence involving a violation of 49 U.S.C. subtitle VII or the 14 CFR to be indicative of a constructive attitude. Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations. Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if..

 

(1) The violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;

 

(2) The violation did not involve a criminal offense, accident, or action under 49 U.S.C. § 44709, which discloses a lack of qualification or competency, which is wholly excluded from this policy;

 

(3) The person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation of 49 U.S.C. subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the date of occurrence; and

 

(4) The person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, or date when the person became aware or should have been aware of the violation, he or she completed and delivered or mailed a written report of the incident or occurrence to NASA.

 

The Story of Russell’s Hindsight

 

My approach throughout this process was to be completely open in admitting what I had done. Any lawyer will tell you this is crazy. Here is what I should have done.

 

First, as an AOPA member, I could have taken advantage of the association's legal services plan. It covers some of the legal fees if there is an FAA enforcement action against you.

 

Second, when talking to Tracon, giving name, rank and serial number is enough. It is a recorded conversation. Any information you give can be used against you. My natural reaction was to honestly relate what I had done because I am such a splendid human being. Big mistake. You don't have to say anything beyond who you are without consulting a lawyer. Be aware that in a VIP TFR violation they are out to get you. You can be a churchgoing ATP with 20,000 hours and six hungry kids. It won't make any difference. Active military and airline pilots have inadvertently made TFR penetrations when flying light aircraft on the weekends, and had suspensions. This is about punishment, not education.

 

This punitive attitude creates an adversarial situation, which, ironically, is the complete opposite of the educational approach the FAA has found to be most effective in promoting compliance to regulations.

 

So why the switch? Most people I talked to believe it stems from a conflict between the FAA and the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) that the TSA won. According to a source formerly employed by the Department of Homeland Security, however, it was the Secret Service, not the TSA, that requested that the FAA impose a suspension for even first-time TFR violators.

 

In most cases the FAA assumes you are a pilot who has unintentionally made a mistake, and that you will benefit from counseling or training to mend your ways. Incorrigible bad boys who think flying through the St. Louis arch is cool will be smacked on the fanny and deservedly so, but they are the exceptions among our fellow pilots. Most of us want to do the right thing. The Secret Service, on the other hand, assumes you are a potential threat. Understandable, perhaps, but it could learn from the FAA's experience that a softer glove is more effective.

 

Read the rest of the story at the link below:

TFR Trouble How an experienced pilot with a clean record flying along the beach got nailed. By Russell Munson

*

images_zpspbafk6q3.jpeg

Edited by iChris
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When I flew air attack, we often made a point of identifying the aircraft that flew through the TFR, escorted them out, and depending on circumstances, notified ATC. Identification information was provided to the FAA, again depending on circumstances.

 

Today unmanned aircraft are proving to be a much bigger problem over fires, and most pilots are informed enough to stay away.

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Stadium TFRs are a separate issue. The blanket TFR that was implemented for them isn't established the same as a TFR for emergency or VIP. A typical fire or VIP TFR has to be requested by the controlling agency. When issued it is give a control number and a NOTAM is issued.

 

The stadium TFR comes from a special security directive. FSS and ATC don't necessarily have the schedule for the games or events and probably don't know if your local team is playing. Also, the TFRs aren't specific to a stadium. The TFR is for specific sports and levels (NFL, MLB, NCAA Div1 Football). An outdoor event at your local stadiums doesn't necessarily mean there is a TFR.

 

We keep our local teams' schedules on a calendar so we know everyday. Lastly, some of the Apps are pretty good at cross referencing game schedule and displaying the TFR.

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We keep our local teams' schedules on a calendar so we know everyday. Lastly, some of the Apps are pretty good at cross referencing game schedule and displaying the TFR.

 

We do too, problem is unless you're a fan its hard to guess when the game will end.

 

The TFR that popped up which prompted this thread had no explanation. All the briefer said was the cops had just issued it and they wouldn't say anything else.

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We do too, problem is unless you're a fan its hard to guess when the game will end.

 

The TFR that popped up which prompted this thread had no explanation. All the briefer said was the cops had just issued it and they wouldn't say anything else.

 

The police or agency requesting the TFR doesn't need to say anything else.

Edited by avbug
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