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#21 Ares_83x

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 16:42

Well, I qualified for the third class medical. I haven't attempted to get the second class yet. Obviously I'm not going to spend 100K BEFORE seeing if I qualify for the second class. I would not pay for anything more than the PPL without knowing whether I could get the 2nd class.

If that is the case I would recommend going with fixed wing first. The main reason is that it cost less and more importantly it is easier and more practical to rent a airplane. You can go to almost any airport and rent a Cessna 172 with just a ppl and a 3rd class medical. However, helicopter rentals are much more rare. The company I work for will not rent out helicopters unless there is a CFI on board. 

Later if you qualify for a 2nd class medical you can go straight for a helicopter add-on since you would already have your f/w ppl. That will save you some money, but companies will still want to know how many hours you have in the specific category you are applying.

F/W PPL: About $8-10K

R/W PPL: About $15-20K



#22 Wally

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 17:26

I don't know if the medical conditions will restrict me to the 3rd class. I thought getting the third class was the biggest hurdle. According to this article, for the second class medical, (https://en.wikipedia...es#Second_class) pilots must must meet the requirements for the third class certificate plus:

  • Distant vision: 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction
  • Intermediate vision: 20/40 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction, at age 50 and over, as measured at 32 inches

I already met the requirements for the third, so now I just need to meet the increased vision requirements of the second class. Unless they are some hidden additional requirements of the second and first class medicals.

 

I have never lost consciousness due to the Addison's. As long as I take the meds, I live a normal lifestyle. The Addison's is likely a lifelong condition, but I might be able to get the Autoimmune diagnosis removed.

 

If your intention is to fly professionally in any powered aircraft, you must hold a valid Second Class Medical. A Third Class is useless if you're flying for hire, especially for a new pilot trying to build hours.

 

Your medical issues are a matter of record with the FAA, you will have to deal with that history. Apply for your second class medical. Then you will know where you stand.

 

There are better references than Wikipedia and this forum, for instance the eCFR: http://www.ecfr.gov/...r67_main_02.tpl

There is very important statement in that Part to consider in the process of applying medical standards: " At the discretion of the Federal Air Surgeon..." I can tell you that potential disturbance of consciousness is a BIG DEAL with certification.


Edited by Wally, 04 November 2016 - 17:30.

Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#23 johnw2156

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 17:40

I can tell you that potential disturbance of consciousness is a BIG DEAL with certification.

Good thing I've never lost consciousness in my life.


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#24 adam32

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 18:52

Good thing I've never lost consciousness in my life.


Might not matter in the FAA's eyes...just a "chance" of it happening is a BIG DEAL.

Imagine flying with a full load of PAX over a congested area and you go unconscious...down goes the helicopter right into a school while a group Special Olympics kids are there...BAM, 20+ dead all because the FAA let someone fly that "maybe" shouldn't have been.

It's the Government...that's how they think. So, if I was you, go apply for your 2nd Class and see what happens. After that is in your hand, come back here and we can direct you on the best path forward to pursue your dreams.

#25 avbug

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 19:42

 

I have never lost consciousness due to the Addison's. 

 

 

That you have never lost consciousness (yet) is good, but doesn't change the fact that you could, as it's a function of the condition and could occur.  

 

That possibility alone is something to think very seriously about in regard to acting in command of an aircraft in flight. 

 

If you can get the autoimmune diagnosis removed, how will that impact your psychiatric symptoms. You indicated that the autoimmune diagnosis was an effort to explain psychiatric issues; those may be the larger problem.



#26 johnw2156

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 00:24

Might not matter in the FAA's eyes...just a "chance" of it happening is a BIG DEAL.
Imagine flying with a full load of PAX over a congested area and you go unconscious...down goes the helicopter right into a school while a group Special Olympics kids are there...BAM, 20+ dead all because the FAA let someone fly that "maybe" shouldn't have been.
It's the Government...that's how they think. So, if I was you, go apply for your 2nd Class and see what happens. After that is in your hand, come back here and we can direct you on the best path forward to pursue your dreams.


The chance of me losing consciousness is very slim.

I think I'll at least try to get the autoimmune removed before I attempt to get the 2nd class medical. In the mean time, I can get my private pilot license.

#27 avbug

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 00:43

Sounds like you already know everything.  Good luck.


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#28 Guest_pokey_*

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 04:54

Sounds like you already know everything.  Good luck.



#29 adam32

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:00

The chance of me losing consciousness is very slim.

I think I'll at least try to get the autoimmune removed before I attempt to get the 2nd class medical. In the mean time, I can get my private pilot license.


The chance of an engine failure is also very slim (unless you're Avbug), but we still prepare and practice for them A LOT!
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#30 Nearly Retired

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 10:26

johnw2156 wrote:

Autoimmune Encephalitis - I have this diagnosis for some neuro-psychiatric symptoms I was exhibiting, including OCD (I'm pretty sure everybody has some OCD)...

 
 
Whoops, almost missed something.  Yes, everybody "probably" suffers from some kind of CDO.  Mine is making sure everything is alphabetized properly.  But I almost glossed-over the first part of your statement: "I have this diagnosis for some neuro-psychiatric symptoms...including OCD."
 
Oh really?  What are the other neuro-psychiatric symptoms?  Come clean with us, boy!  What kind of psycho sh*t have you got going on in that little 16 year-old brain of yours?  Suicidal thoughts?  Getting a bunch of tattoos and dressing like Justin Bieber?  Are you one of them anti-social goth kids at school?  (Do they even exist anymore?  They do on South Park, but that's my only peek into modern pop culture.)
 
Addison's...hmm...hormone deficiency?  Gee, I wish I had a few *less* hormones when I was 16.  They seemed to control my life back then.  DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU?  Yes, I was a total boy-whore. 
 
Ah, but seriously...  Look son, you have a hard road.  Just having Addison's is bad enough.  The other things...well...you'll have to deal with them the best you can. 
 
Asking for medical advice from pilots on an internet forum is just silly.  None of us are doctors (well, except for Admiral Professor General Dr. Avbug, MD. PhD., DDS, Esq.)  The rest of us really can't tell you much. What we all *can* tell you is that the FAA takes loss-of-consciousness, or even the potential loss-of-consciousness VERY seriously.
 
​Friend of mine had a minor motorcycle accident.  Fell down and bumped his helmeted head hard enough to make him black out for a moment or two.  Dutifully he reported this to the FAA who basically told him (I swear this is true), "You're not a pilot anymore.  Call us back in two years when you've documented that you haven't had anymore blackouts."
 
He couldn't apply for another medical for two years.  He couldn't believe it.  I couldn't believe it! Two friggin years??  Yep.  The FAA said, "See ya!" as they tore his flight physical into tiny little bits and scattered them to the winds, mimicking in size the ticker-tape parade Hillary will have after she's elected in a couple of days.  So my friend took a little two-year vacation, bought a camper and toured the country with his wife and kids.  Fortunately he is back flying today, happy and healthy and no more blackouts (and no more motorcycles, by the way!). 
 
So JohnW, given all you've told us, I can say with some confidence that the FAA will probably *never* grant you a medical that would allow you to fly commercially (e.g. Class II or higher).  They *might* grant you a special issuance Class III (perhaps renewable every six months) to fly for fun.
 
It is sad that you probably won't be able to find your fortune as an airline pilot.  I hate that you thought you might have to "settle" for helicopters because the medical standards are so much more lax than the airlines. Dammit, the money just isn't as good in our industry.  Although I have to admit, taking selfies in helicopters is way cooler than in the cockpit of a 737.  ...Unless you're that British Airways pilot who recently made the news...yikes!
 
But hey, the world needs actors too!  In fact...I just watched a movie called "This Is The End" that had a bunch of supposedly hot young Hollywood actors in it (Franco, Rogen and that super-annoying fat kid from Super Bad - whatever his name was, Joshua-something, I forget).  What a piece of sh*t movie!  I'm glad I didn't pay to see it.  Halfway through I picked up my phone and got lost in Facebook and YouTube as I usually do on a Friday night...and it wasn't even Friday night!  If the morons in that movie constitute the best of the best of the current Acting Community in the film industry, then we're in deep, deep trouble.  There's a definite hole you could probably fill (and no that's not a James Franco homosex joke).  Even if you only ever acted in your third grade production of Macbeth, you'd probably still be a better actor than that Seth Rogen.  Ugh.  I say go for it.
 
Whatever happens...whichever road you take...good luck to you. 
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#31 r22butters

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 11:49

"This is the end",...? HA, I loved that movie!

I saw it the other night after reading an article in the latest Robinson News Letter about this awesome cherry drying chick in a 44!
:D

Edited by r22butters, 05 November 2016 - 12:07.

Side boob is just so awesome,...yes it is!

#32 Spike

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 13:28

johnw2156

 

You’re putting the cart before the horse…….

 

If you’re ok with just being a private/sports pilot, then I’d say continue on…

 

If your goal is to be a pro-pilot then I’d suggest focusing on getting well, including staying well, and only move forward when you have that 2nd class secured in hand for a number of years….. In fact, I’d shoot for the 1st class just because……

 

Lots of pilots have problems with medical certification, mostly due to aging. If your medical track record is bumpy from the beginning, no one will hire you….. Fixed or rotory…..

 

 

 



#33 Wally

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 16:14

Good thing I've never lost consciousness in my life.

 

...that you know of. But- you have most certainly 'lost consciousness'-. Sleep.

 

You might not know you have otherwise 'lost consciousness' unless something dramatic happens. One of many examples- absence seizures/petit mal episodes.

 

My experience is that to the FAA, neuro and psychiatric issues are big deals.

 

I am not an AME. I would suggest you apply for Second Class certification and discover whether or not it can presently be granted. You will NOT FLY professionally without it. (

 

Arguing with pilots is like wrestling with a pig. It doesn't settle anything and you might both get dirty. And the pig enjoys it...


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Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#34 johnw2156

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 17:21

They *might* grant you a special issuance Class III (perhaps renewable every six months) to fly for fun.

If you actually read my posts, you would know that I already have been granted a special issuance 3rd class medical.


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#35 johnw2156

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 17:23

 

...that you know of. But- you have most certainly 'lost consciousness'-. Sleep.

 

You might not know you have otherwise 'lost consciousness' unless something dramatic happens. One of many examples- absence seizures/petit mal episodes.

 

My experience is that to the FAA, neuro and psychiatric issues are big deals.

 

I am not an AME. I would suggest you apply for Second Class certification and discover whether or not it can presently be granted. You will NOT FLY professionally without it. (

 

Arguing with pilots is like wrestling with a pig. It doesn't settle anything and you might both get dirty. And the pig enjoys it...

Like I said, I'm probably going to hold off on the second class until I can (possibly) get the psychiatric diagnosis removed.



#36 avbug

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 19:38

Like I said, I'm probably going to hold off on the second class until I can (possibly) get the psychiatric diagnosis removed.

 

 

The thing about the medical application is that it asks if you have, or have ever had any if the named conditions.  Simply getting the "diagnosis removed," doesn't change the fact that you have been diagnosed, and that will require documentation to address the problem, whether it exists currently or not.  It will take more than a letter from your doctor.



#37 Eric Hunt

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 20:51

I think you will find that Addison's is a condition that can be stabilised, i.e. the deterioration slows down, but it will never go away and the doses of medication will slowly increase. I have a friend with the condition and it is very draining.



#38 johnw2156

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 22:14

In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again? I thought that once I got the third class, then I would just need a vision test to get the second class medical. That's the main difference between the medicals. That, and how frequently they expire. Otherwise, the requirements for the 3 medicals are largely the same, according to http://www.ecfr.gov/...4.2.67&rgn=div5. The third class medical has a requirement of "No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause," as do the second and third class medicals. The mental and neurological requirements are the same.

#39 johnw2156

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 22:16

I think you will find that Addison's is a condition that can be stabilised, i.e. the deterioration slows down, but it will never go away and the doses of medication will slowly increase. I have a friend with the condition and it is very draining.


Does your friend have his pilot's license?

#40 avbug

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 23:31

In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again? I thought that once I got the third class, then I would just need a vision test to get the second class medical. That's the main difference between the medicals. That, and how frequently they expire. Otherwise, the requirements for the 3 medicals are largely the same, according to http://www.ecfr.gov/...4.2.67&rgn=div5. The third class medical has a requirement of "No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause," as do the second and third class medicals. The mental and neurological requirements are the same.

 

 

Again, you seem to know it all, given your arguing with those who take the time to respond to you, and your effort to educate the board is enlightening, given that you're 16 years old and don't hold a pilot certificate.  Once more, good luck.







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