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#41 r22butters

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 23:49

In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again?...


I have never had a third class exam, but my second class has always been primarily an eye test, followed by him poking and peeking in a few places. Maybe twenty minutes for the whole thing? However,...

Call the doc who gave you your third class and ask him! If you always go to the same doc, things tend to go a bit easier as he gets to know you.
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#42 Eric Hunt

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 00:09

No, John, she is not a pilot, she is a teacher, and barely able to drag herself through a day. Sometimes she is so tired she is reluctant to get in the car to drive home. Wouldn't be a good thing to try to fly home with Addison's, and even less with a mental condition.

 

You might think that it is all under control with medication, but there will be some time when you are unable to get to the pills, or you have a stomach upset where you cannot keep anything down, much less the pills, and things can go bad quite quickly.

 

Try some other career, where your self-seeking aim to be a pilot will not endanger the lives of those who entrust them to you in an aircraft.



#43 johnw2156

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 00:40

No, John, she is not a pilot, she is a teacher, and barely able to drag herself through a day. Sometimes she is so tired she is reluctant to get in the car to drive home. Wouldn't be a good thing to try to fly home with Addison's, and even less with a mental condition.
 
You might think that it is all under control with medication, but there will be some time when you are unable to get to the pills, or you have a stomach upset where you cannot keep anything down, much less the pills, and things can go bad quite quickly.
 
Try some other career, where your self-seeking aim to be a pilot will not endanger the lives of those who entrust them to you in an aircraft.


Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.

#44 avbug

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 00:44

https://www.leftseat.com/sistats.htm

 

Note the stats table.  Of the 400,000 airman pathological records being processed by the FAA, Cushings Addisons Disease shows 351 with a third class medical, 155 with a second class, and 162 with a first class.  

 

Major affective disorders listed under Psychiatry show 29 3rd class medicals issued, with 10 and 11 for second and first class, respectively.  

 

A combination of both  Addisons and the Autoimmune Encephalitis is another matter that needs to be reviewed by those who specialize in seeking waivers and special issuance.  I believe the original poster indicated that he sought and obtained a medical exam, was deferred to Oklahoma City, and that he was denied airman medical certification.  This adds an additional layer to seeking medical certification, as opposed to someone who has not already received a notice of medical unfitness.  

 

Considerable testing and documentation is required.  As Leftseat.com notes, 80% of those who do not get approved fail because of insufficient documentation.  Generally speaking, medical waivers are time consuming and expensive.  Far more so when the right sources aren't obtained to guide one through the process.



#45 Wally

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:31

Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.

I Want To Be A Pilot

 

When I grow up, I want to be a (helicopter) PILOT because it's a fun job and easy to do. That's why there are so many (helicopter) PILOTS flying around these days. (helicopter) PILOTS don't need much school, they just have to learn to read numbers so they can read instruments. I guess they should be able to read road maps too, so they can find their way home if they get lost.

(helicopter) PILOTS should be brave so they won't get scared if it's foggy and they can't see, or if a wing or motor falls off they should stay calm so they'll know what to do. (helicopter) PILOTS have to have good eyes to see through clouds and they can't be afraid of lightning or thunder because they are much closer to them than we are.

The salary (helicopter) PILOTS make is another thing I like. They make more money than they know what to do with. This is because most people thing that PLANE flying is dangerous except (helicopter) PILOTS don't because they know how easy it is. I hope I don't get airsick because I get car sick and if I get airsick I couldn't be a (helicopter) PILOT and then I would have to go to work.

 

The most difficult challenge in being (and managing) pilots is influencing the decision to not fly. Hence all regulations about who, what, when, where and how to do the job. The pilot flies because it is what one desires to do above all things, making significant financial, social and temporal sacrifices to get that position.

Read this forum through, and you will see mention of tens of thousands of dollars spent to gain minimum professional qualifications, years spent pursuing experience that may never result in employment. Then, if and when you do gain a reasonably compensated position, you think you are going to casually refuse to do the job because you are a little under the weather? Read some NTSB accident reports.. You will find fatal accidents attributed to continued flight into deadly weather. Departures with known dangerous maintenance issues. Pilots flying with various medication impairments. Idiotically extended duty periods... All of which demonstrate that aviators pretty much believe they can "hack it". That attitude kills pilots, crews, passengers, and civilians by the thousands every year; pilots with hundreds or tens of thousands of hours, in every phase of the industry; but YOU know better than the FAA Medical Certification department and YOU know you won't fly "unless I (you) feel well enough".

I hope so. The record and my experience indicates otherwise. Get back to me confirming your discretion after you've flown professionally a few years.


Edited by Wally, 06 November 2016 - 11:18.

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Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#46 r22butters

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:15

Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.


Unless you want to spend ten years looking for your first job as a pilot, it will be as a teacher!

,...and if you tell your boss you don't feel well enough to fly, you will be driving a truck again very soon!
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#47 Nearly Retired

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:24

johnw2156 wrote:

...and I won't fly unless I feel well enough."

 

Son, you're going to have to learn a few things about aviation.  One of them is that you go fly when they tell you to fly.  There's none of this, "Oooooh, I have a headache, I can't fly today," crap.  When it's time to go, you go.  Pilots who are sickly and always trying to weasel out of flying generally don't stay employed very long.

 

Years ago I was having breakfast with a friend of mine.  At the time he was a young guy with a fresh Commercial certificate who wanted to make helicopter flying his career.  I was telling him about flying out in the Gulf of Mexico for PHI, which I did for thirteen happy years.  Nine of those years involved living on an offshore oil platform for my entire seven-day "hitch."

 

"What happened if you got sick during the week?" he asked.  A fair question, I guess.

 

The answer is: You don't get sick.  If you wake up feeling bad, you put your big boy pants on and you go fly.  See, PHI didn't have a bunch of pilots sitting around at each base just waiting for somebody to fall out sick.  Virtually all pilots had job assignments.  Those unassigned (i.e. "pool") pilots were generally the newbies who didn't have enough experience to fly for certain oil companies, like Shell for whom I was assigned.  So a pool guy couldn't have come out and taken my place even if he was available.  Pool pilots generally flew the pop-up charters that came in every day.

 

Not only that, there usually weren't any unassigned ships at the bases to ferry a relief pilot out. 

 

And what would I do for the day, stay in my bunk?

 

No, you get up and fly.  Luckily the "field ship" that I was flying never strayed far from the nine platforms that I serviced.  Because there were days that I'd do a flight, land back at the main quarters platform and immediately hit my bunk until the next flight. 

 

(That young pilot I spoke of is now an experienced Utility pilot doing powerline work, fire-fighting and lots and lots of "long-line" stuff.  He's amazing and I admire him greatly for his achievements and skill.  When he's out on a job at a remote site, he gets up and goes to work every morning.  He knows the score.  He does not get sick.)

 

Even at my current company, doing this cherry-drying thing, we have just enough pilots to cover the contracted ships.  If one pilot falls out sick then that ship doesn't fly and the company doesn't get paid.  Have I ever hovered over cherry trees when I would much rather be back in my bunk because I was sick?  Not that I'd admit to the FAA.  But between you and me, yeah, of course, all pilots probably have. There are plenty of areas of aviation where pilots work in remote places where no replacements are available, and calling in sick would put a MAJOR crimp in the operation. 

 

A company will take this into consideration when deciding whether to hire you.  If there's even a possibility that you might not be able to perform your duties due to an illness, you won't get hired, simple as that.  They'll hire the healthy guy.  Sorry, that's just the way it is.  Not saying you *can't* do it - God knows that anything is possible. 

 

But as I've said, you're asking the wrong people.  You need to ask the FAA if you'd qualify for a Class I or II.  In my *opinion*, the fact that they gave you a Special Issuance Class III does *not* mean that a Class II is guaranteed.

 

Now, if you're asking me (as the guy who hires and fires pilots at my company) if I'd hire you given everything you've told us so far, my answer would be no.  Why would I?  It's just too risky.

 

Sorry.


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#48 johnw2156

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:17

johnw2156 wrote:

 

 

Son, you're going to have to learn a few things about aviation.  One of them is that you go fly when they tell you to fly.  There's none of this, "Oooooh, I have a headache, I can't fly today," crap.  When it's time to go, you go.  Pilots who are sickly and always trying to weasel out of flying generally don't stay employed very long.

 

Years ago I was having breakfast with a friend of mine.  At the time he was a young guy with a fresh Commercial certificate who wanted to make helicopter flying his career.  I was telling him about flying out in the Gulf of Mexico for PHI, which I did for thirteen happy years.  Nine of those years involved living on an offshore oil platform for my entire seven-day "hitch."

 

"What happened if you got sick during the week?" he asked.  A fair question, I guess.

 

The answer is: You don't get sick.  If you wake up feeling bad, you put your big boy pants on and you go fly.  See, PHI didn't have a bunch of pilots sitting around at each base just waiting for somebody to fall out sick.  Virtually all pilots had job assignments.  Those unassigned (i.e. "pool") pilots were generally the newbies who didn't have enough experience to fly for certain oil companies, like Shell for whom I was assigned.  So a pool guy couldn't have come out and taken my place even if he was available.  Pool pilots generally flew the pop-up charters that came in every day.

 

Not only that, there usually weren't any unassigned ships at the bases to ferry a relief pilot out. 

 

And what would I do for the day, stay in my bunk?

 

No, you get up and fly.  Luckily the "field ship" that I was flying never strayed far from the nine platforms that I serviced.  Because there were days that I'd do a flight, land back at the main quarters platform and immediately hit my bunk until the next flight. 

 

(That young pilot I spoke of is now an experienced Utility pilot doing powerline work, fire-fighting and lots and lots of "long-line" stuff.  He's amazing and I admire him greatly for his achievements and skill.  When he's out on a job at a remote site, he gets up and goes to work every morning.  He knows the score.  He does not get sick.)

 

Even at my current company, doing this cherry-drying thing, we have just enough pilots to cover the contracted ships.  If one pilot falls out sick then that ship doesn't fly and the company doesn't get paid.  Have I ever hovered over cherry trees when I would much rather be back in my bunk because I was sick?  Not that I'd admit to the FAA.  But between you and me, yeah, of course, all pilots probably have. There are plenty of areas of aviation where pilots work in remote places where no replacements are available, and calling in sick would put a MAJOR crimp in the operation. 

 

A company will take this into consideration when deciding whether to hire you.  If there's even a possibility that you might not be able to perform your duties due to an illness, you won't get hired, simple as that.  They'll hire the healthy guy.  Sorry, that's just the way it is.  Not saying you *can't* do it - God knows that anything is possible. 

 

But as I've said, you're asking the wrong people.  You need to ask the FAA if you'd qualify for a Class I or II.  In my *opinion*, the fact that they gave you a Special Issuance Class III does *not* mean that a Class II is guaranteed.

 

Now, if you're asking me (as the guy who hires and fires pilots at my company) if I'd hire you given everything you've told us so far, my answer would be no.  Why would I?  It's just too risky.

 

Sorry.

I was referring to my own personal flights when I said "I won't fly unless I feel well enough."

 

And I'll be sure not to apply for a job at your company.

 

I don't know why the medicals standards for flying are so much higher than those for driving a car. You can actually take your hands off the yoke in a plane and it practically flys itself. Do that in a car, and you'll veer off the road and/or smash into a tree. There are significantly more cars on the road than planes in the air. But for some reason pilots have to be in almost prefect health. Probably due to incidents like 9/11, then again the France truck attack guy proved that land vehicles can cause damage too.

 

Basically, in order to be a pilot, you have to be healthy and wealthy.



#49 r22butters

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:35

Flying sick, flying tired, scud running in a vfr ship because the job HAS to get done (and nearly killing myself with IIMC), getting fired for doing the "right" thing, working for a slave driving tyrant, being replaceable at the drop of a hat because pilots are a "dime a dozen", moving clear across the country to work for $500 bucks a month!

Don't you get it kid, flying commercially SUCKS!

If I were 16 I'd get into the Tech industry, find an awesome paying job, make butt-loads of money, buy a Widgeon and be a happy recreational pilot for the rest of my life!
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#50 LionHeart

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 14:03

Flying a plane is very different from a helicopter. I encourage you to take an introductory flight in a heli and see what happens when you take either hand or foot away from the flight controls. It won't take long for you to see the difference.
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#51 Wally

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 16:28

---

Don't you get it kid, flying commercially SUCKS!

If I were 16 I'd get into the Tech industry, find an awesome paying job, make butt-loads of money, buy a Widgeon and be a happy recreational pilot for the rest of my life!

 

I would suggest that flying for a living is not for all and that your brief exposure might limit your reference.

 

Was I 16 again, I would do a few things differently:

I would have completed the free COBOL course I was given;

I would have gone to the Gulf of Mexico with my Army buddies when the Vietnam War wound down instead of drinkin' and hoarin' for ten years. I would have eventually retired from that job. I liked flying for PHI.

 

I do not regret flying and being paid for it all those decades.

 

P.S. for "johnw2156"- considering your health challenges, I understand your impression that pilots are all uniquely healthy individuals. It's not so. Find a compatible MD who is also an AME and discuss your situation regarding your second class physical. Considering that you have considerable challenges, look for experience. Cities with a lot of airline pilots will often have AMEs with demonstrated records of success dealing with airmen medical issues.

There is an argument for not allowing your AME to be your physician, my experience is completely contrary- he advises me on meds that will not create problems with the FAA. I hear similar from other pilots...


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Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#52 r22butters

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 16:59

I would suggest that flying for a living is not for all and that your brief exposure might limit your reference.
 

Well sure, but my experience is what it is, and not everyone has the same.

Would I feel differently if I had spent my twenties flying an F-14 for the Navy, then my thirties flying the Space Shuttle like I envisioned when I was 16?

Would I feel differently had I spent the last ten years flying tourists around Vegas like I planned when I was 30 and finally became a pilot? I don't know?

Had my first job been with Oceanfront or Hiltonhead and not Helislave Adventures maybe I wouldn't hate commercial aviation,...maybe?

Drinkin' and hoarin' well that sure beats sober and married!
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#53 Eric Hunt

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 04:55

The road to disrepute is paved with "what-ifs" - what if i had gone into architecture instead of the airforce? What if I had gone to the oil helos after the airforce, instead of going to police aviation? What if I had completed my ATPL instead of spending more time in the bar? What if I had actually hit the ground instead of finishing in ground effect while flying powerlines in high winds? What if?? WTF?

 

You are only a 16-year-old kid, with a couple of serious diseases and delusions of grandeur.

 

Take one thing at a time. Get the medical. Do some flying. Reassess the situation. Then do what your mom told you to do, tidy your room.


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#54 whoknows idont

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 14:07

My experience is that to the FAA, neuro and psychiatric issues are big deals.

 

 

I must say I find that to be a good thing, generally speaking.

 

@johnw: If you want to give this forum something back then please do report the results of your endeavors once you have taken the next step.


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