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Army Aviation Officer to Warrant Officer


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I have been searching for an answer to this question for some time now and so far only one part of my question has been answered. From what I understand is that an officer can apply for WOFT and possibly be selected and be demoted to WO1. But the question of moving from an aviation officer slot to a aviation warrant officer slot with the only difference being change of rank and responsibilities. I'm asking this because i want to attend ROTC or the USMA so I can get a quality education, but then become a warrant officer so that you can get more flight hours and less paperwork.

 

Is it possible?
Would you still have to attend Warrant Officer School?

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You can do ROTC or USMA if you want. You would then need to go to BOLC and, if you were fortunate enough to get Aviation as your branch, flight school as a Commissioned Officer. After you got to your unit you could then start the process of dropping a warrant packet. It would be up to your unit and the aviation branch chief to waive your 6 year contract. If all worked out, once accepted by the board, you would simply change rank to CW2, and PCS to a new unit as a warrant officer. It is definitely possible but it is the most complicated way to do things... I would say that this is definitely not the best route.

 

If you want a good education, then go to the school of your choice, graduate, and do a street to seat packet. If you do street to seat you would go to basic and WOCS before attending flight school. Many on this site have gone that route and would recommend it for your situation. There are a few of us, myself included, that went the ROTC route, were released from our branch as a commissioned officer, and came to flight school as warrants. It was tedious and honestly you have to meet the right people at the right time in order to make everything happen.

 

Moral of the story is, if I were to do it all over again, I would have either gone to school and done street to seat, or would have done some time enlisted, GI bill for school, then either gone street to seat or if I was still in gone the normal route of dropping a packet.

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Drew: I don't think you get CW2 unless you've been to the CCC, and have two years TIG as a Captain? Not 100% sure on the numbers, but definitely had a CPT that didn't meet the requirements make WO1 vs CW2. (Guard side: I'd imagine the requirements are pretty similar for AD...)

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Drew: I don't think you get CW2 unless you've been to the CCC, and have two years TIG as a Captain? Not 100% sure on the numbers, but definitely had a CPT that didn't meet the requirements make WO1 vs CW2. (Guard side: I'd imagine the requirements are pretty similar for AD...)

So what I'm getting from this is that it is easier to make Captain than it is to make CW2? Hmm...

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Guard is different. All you need is 2 years time in grade as a commissioned officer. That's what I had and I pinned CW2 right away.

That's strange. A friend of mine (Guard) had pinned CPT. Obviously had TIG as a 2/1LT, but was made a W1. That's the information I've heard here, and the state he did an IST to for his transition.

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I believe it. I have heard similar things from guard guys here at Rucker. But there are at least 15 of us down here now (all active duty) that all reverted from commissioned with around the same time in.

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You can do ROTC or USMA if you want. You would then need to go to BOLC and, if you were fortunate enough to get Aviation as your branch, flight school as a Commissioned Officer. After you got to your unit you could then start the process of dropping a warrant packet. It would be up to your unit and the aviation branch chief to waive your 6 year contract. If all worked out, once accepted by the board, you would simply change rank to CW2, and PCS to a new unit as a warrant officer. It is definitely possible but it is the most complicated way to do things... I would say that this is definitely not the best route.

 

If you want a good education, then go to the school of your choice, graduate, and do a street to seat packet. If you do street to seat you would go to basic and WOCS before attending flight school. Many on this site have gone that route and would recommend it for your situation. There are a few of us, myself included, that went the ROTC route, were released from our branch as a commissioned officer, and came to flight school as warrants. It was tedious and honestly you have to meet the right people at the right time in order to make everything happen.

 

Moral of the story is, if I were to do it all over again, I would have either gone to school and done street to seat, or would have done some time enlisted, GI bill for school, then either gone street to seat or if I was still in gone the normal route of dropping a packet.

I appreciate the insight Drew!

 

My only issue is that I really don't want to be stuck paying off student loans when i could go the ROTC, USMA, National Guard route. Unless you can get loan reimbursement as a Warrant Officer? I want to get college finished up before I join.

 

I also pm'd you.

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If you haven't started college yet, is regular National Guard an option to pay for it? I know where I live state school is covered just by serving in the Guard as any MOS. This is separate from the GI bill. You'd just be an enlisted guy in the guard during your time in undergrad. Heck, maybe you could be a 15(x) for a few years while you went to school. Just a thought, if paying for school is your concern.

 

Mike

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If you haven't started college yet, is regular National Guard an option to pay for it? I know where I live state school is covered just by serving in the Guard as any MOS. This is separate from the GI bill. You'd just be an enlisted guy in the guard during your time in undergrad. Heck, maybe you could be a 15(x) for a few years while you went to school. Just a thought, if paying for school is your concern.

 

Mike

I'm in Ohio so its 100% covered in a state school, and then some coverage at a private. My only concern is being guaranteed an aviation slot so im not stuck at an enlisted MOS that will make me hate life.

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You should be able to enlist in the aviation maintenance field directly if your state offers it. Then you do your 4-6 years in the guard and they cover school. Not sure on the specific time in service requirements for your state to get benefits, a recruiter would have that info. By the time you graduate, you would still owe your state probably a year and a half, considering BCT/AIT would take about 6 months of a 6 year contract. Also there's the potential for a deployment in there somewhere. What I don't know is if you'd be committed to finishing out your full contract before putting in an aviation packet after they have paid for your whole education... because in theory, you could do that while serving as an enlisted guy in the guard. The big question is if that packet is for regular army rather than Guard, whether that would still be OK given they paid for school.

 

Also not sure if you have any desire to fly for the guard rather than regular army, but you can put in your packet while serving in the guard to fly for said state, then you owe that state 6 years after flight school. Apparently it is possible to transfer after that point, but not easy. Plenty of info around these boards.

Just some ideas, and this way it wouldn't have you committed to commissioning and serving 4 years in possibly a non aviation branch in exchange for college after you graduate. At most you'd probably owe 1.5 years after graduation to your unit, assuming it takes you 4 years to complete college.

 

Disclaimer: My army knowledge basically comes from research and friends/roommates. No first hand experience with the army yet. I am familiar with both the mil and college though. I did my entire undergrad while in the reserves.

 

Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm in Ohio so its 100% covered in a state school, and then some coverage at a private. My only concern is being guaranteed an aviation slot so im not stuck at an enlisted MOS that will make me hate life.

 

Unless you are top 10% in the nation as a Cadet (and medically qualified), ROTC is a crap shoot for getting an AD aviation slot. That top 10% is INCREDIBLY hard to do (GPA near a 4.0, do great at camp, PMS rating, and of course the high APFT--which is the easiest to master). A lot of us went through ROTC...but Cadet Accessions are never guaranteed outside of the above top 10% (on the national OML). Its technique, but I wouldn't teach that... Go a more DIRECT route if that is the goal.

 

As for a Captain, pinning on WO1 (vs CW2), yes, he will get it (I just looked up my old paperwork for the reference...not that anal as I have everything pdf'd in the cloud vs a paper "I Love Me" book). I had the same thing for about two months until HRC caught up with me...WO1 with senior aviator wings is always a conversation starter. Ref is AR 600-8-29 (Officer Promotions), para 3-3 quoted below for you lazy buggers ;)

 

3–3. Rules for computing promotion eligibility date to CW2

a. The earlier of the following dates will be the PED to CW2:

 

(1) The second anniversary of warrant officer service provided the officer has served a minimum of 18 months on the ADL as a WO1. Adjust the PED to ensure the officer meets the 18 months active duty requirement if necessary.

 

(2) The second anniversary of total active duty service in the current or any higher grade provided that the officer has served a minimum of 18 months of active duty service as a WO1. Adjust the PED to ensure the officer meets the 18 month active duty requirement if necessary. Active duty service as a commissioned officer before appointment as a warrant officer will also count as active duty service.

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I'm in Ohio so its 100% covered in a state school, and then some coverage at a private. My only concern is being guaranteed an aviation slot so im not stuck at an enlisted MOS that will make me hate life.

 

As a warrant and USMA grad: ENLIST IN THE GUARD AS A CREW CHIEF! Unless you're a turdball, flight school is then a matter of when, not if. We have one crew chief who wanted to do it but didn't... because Rucker wouldn't waiver his vision. He is a weekend crew chief and flies FW full time, so it's not like all is lost. It is much easier in the military to move up than to move 'down.'

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As a warrant and USMA grad: ENLIST IN THE GUARD AS A CREW CHIEF! Unless you're a turdball, flight school is then a matter of when, not if. We have one crew chief who wanted to do it but didn't... because Rucker wouldn't waiver his vision. He is a weekend crew chief and flies FW full time, so it's not like all is lost. It is much easier in the military to move up than to move 'down.'

I have a few friends going that route so i'll have to ask them about it. I'd love to attend the USMA but at this point my chances aren't the best and unfortunately it seems Aviation Officers don't do a whole lot of flying which is disappointing.

 

If i went the NG route, could i apply to WOFT right after i graduate college? Again, my only fear is my vision being rejected (its correctable, but you never know what the Army will say) and being stuck as enlisted for a few years (or as a civilian if my contract ends before i get picked up) and not making it to flight school.

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It would depend on the units policy/needs of the unit. That said, in theory, you could apply much sooner than that if your objective is to fly in the national guard. For example, you could drop your packet after a year or potentially less of being in the guard, and if accepted go to flight school early on in your college career. Just be mindful that if they pay for flight school, they expect 6 years of service in the guard AFTER that before they would be inclined to let you go elsewhere.

If you were somehow DQd permanently from flying, and would prefer to be an officer, I'm willing to bet the guard would work with you to either do ROTC through your school while in, or do state guard OCS. I'm not sure if they'd let you out to pursue a regular (full time) army commission if they have paid for your entire education, but this would be a recruiter question. The way the timeline works out, I'd be surprised if you still had more than a year of time owed to the guard by the time you graduated. I joined the USMC after graduating highschool, started college a year after my peers due to boot/MOS school, got deployed in the middle, and my 6 year obligation ended a month after I completed my undergrad. If you get deployed anywhere once during your undergrad, your time will be up right around when you graduate assuming it takes you 4 years.

 

Keep in mind, I could be completely wrong with what your state's rules and requirements are. It may be that as soon as you graduate college and you've only done about 4 years in your guard unit, they are completely cool with you trying to go active duty immediately, even though they paid for school. Again, these are things you should seek clarification on from your recruiter.

 

Mike

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Responses in red-gotta get out the door to see John Wick 2...

 

 

 

It would depend on the units policy/needs of the unit. That said, in theory, you could apply much sooner than that if your objective is to fly in the national guard. For example, you could drop your packet after a year or potentially less of being in the guard, and if accepted go to flight school early on in your college career. Just be mindful that if they pay for flight school, they expect 6 years of service in the guard AFTER that before they would be inclined to let you go elsewhere.

 

If you drop your warrant packet (non reserve component) and get picked up by the active board, NGB WILL release you (they have no option per Army Regs...same for USMA selection, OCS selection, etc). As stated, you do a state selection program, you will dance to their tune (could be a good tune and perhaps not). Perhaps you were talking this, but if not there is the clarification.

If you were somehow DQd permanently from flying, and would prefer to be an officer, I'm willing to bet the guard would work with you to either do ROTC through your school while in, or do state guard OCS. I'm not sure if they'd let you out to pursue a regular (full time) army commission if they have paid for your entire education, but this would be a recruiter question. The way the timeline works out, I'd be surprised if you still had more than a year of time owed to the guard by the time you graduated. I joined the USMC after graduating highschool, started college a year after my peers due to boot/MOS school, got deployed in the middle, and my 6 year obligation ended a month after I completed my undergrad. If you get deployed anywhere once during your undergrad, your time will be up right around when you graduate assuming it takes you 4 years.

 

If you are enlisted in the Guard or Reserve and want to take a line scholarship (non Guaranteed Reserve Force Duty--just what it says, you're going RESERVE Component if you accept a "GRFD"), you have to have a DD 368 (Conditional Release) approved by them. They should also allow it (you'd be the one off if they won't allow it). If you go non scholarship, they CANNOT stop you from requesting Active Duty Accessions--if you get an active duty officer slot, you're going that way no matter what you were on the enlisted side. There are some notes about "simultaneous membership program" (once contracted and not on a "line scholarship", your enlistment changes to Cadet, yada, yada, drilling on the weekends--no effect on how you access. Only that GRFD contract affects that. Clear as mud? Sorry--got to go. Anyway--just clearing some up as I'm a SME in the subject, but is should be moot as this probably isn't what you want to do.

 

AND LASTLY OP, quit saying "stuck" as enlisted. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt (as the others are), but make sure your reasons for going this route are sound. Serving your country in any regard does not equate to "stuck". //Off soapbox//

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AND LASTLY OP, quit saying "stuck" as enlisted. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt (as the others are), but make sure your reasons for going this route are sound. Serving your country in any regard does not equate to "stuck". //Off soapbox//

 

I dunno, maybe this guy is cut out to be a commissioned offier....

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Responses in red-gotta get out the door to see John Wick 2...

 

 

 

It would depend on the units policy/needs of the unit. That said, in theory, you could apply much sooner than that if your objective is to fly in the national guard. For example, you could drop your packet after a year or potentially less of being in the guard, and if accepted go to flight school early on in your college career. Just be mindful that if they pay for flight school, they expect 6 years of service in the guard AFTER that before they would be inclined to let you go elsewhere.

 

If you drop your warrant packet (non reserve component) and get picked up by the active board, NGB WILL release you (they have no option per Army Regs...same for USMA selection, OCS selection, etc). As stated, you do a state selection program, you will dance to their tune (could be a good tune and perhaps not). Perhaps you were talking this, but if not there is the clarification.

If you were somehow DQd permanently from flying, and would prefer to be an officer, I'm willing to bet the guard would work with you to either do ROTC through your school while in, or do state guard OCS. I'm not sure if they'd let you out to pursue a regular (full time) army commission if they have paid for your entire education, but this would be a recruiter question. The way the timeline works out, I'd be surprised if you still had more than a year of time owed to the guard by the time you graduated. I joined the USMC after graduating highschool, started college a year after my peers due to boot/MOS school, got deployed in the middle, and my 6 year obligation ended a month after I completed my undergrad. If you get deployed anywhere once during your undergrad, your time will be up right around when you graduate assuming it takes you 4 years.

 

If you are enlisted in the Guard or Reserve and want to take a line scholarship (non Guaranteed Reserve Force Duty--just what it says, you're going RESERVE Component if you accept a "GRFD"), you have to have a DD 368 (Conditional Release) approved by them. They should also allow it (you'd be the one off if they won't allow it). If you go non scholarship, they CANNOT stop you from requesting Active Duty Accessions--if you get an active duty officer slot, you're going that way no matter what you were on the enlisted side. There are some notes about "simultaneous membership program" (once contracted and not on a "line scholarship", your enlistment changes to Cadet, yada, yada, drilling on the weekends--no effect on how you access. Only that GRFD contract affects that. Clear as mud? Sorry--got to go. Anyway--just clearing some up as I'm a SME in the subject, but is should be moot as this probably isn't what you want to do.

 

AND LASTLY OP, quit saying "stuck" as enlisted. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt (as the others are), but make sure your reasons for going this route are sound. Serving your country in any regard does not equate to "stuck". //Off soapbox//

Thanks for taking the time to go further into the subject. When I say "stuck", it is in no way, shape, or form a means of disrespect. I feel that my talents and strengths would be a better fit as an officer, than as an enlisted soldier.

 

 

I dunno, maybe this guy is cut out to be a commissioned offier....

I believe that I have the qualities that they desire, and I have plenty of experience through numerous programs and events. But in the end it is up to the Army to decide.

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I'd be more concerned about getting stuck with a job you don't like than as enlisted vs officer. If you enlist in the guard to pay for undergrad, yes worst case scenario you are "stuck" as an enlisted soldier for a year or so after graduation, but on the plus side you've already knocked out Boot Camp.

 

I assume your 18ish since you're looking at college? I'm curious as to what "plenty of experience" is at that point in ones life. To be clear I'm not one who thinks that all good officers have been enlisted first, but you can certainly grow from your experience as an enlisted man prior to making the transition if that option provides the benefits of free school, learning about various airframes while in school, etc.

Mike

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I'd be more concerned about getting stuck with a job you don't like than as enlisted vs officer. If you enlist in the guard to pay for undergrad, yes worst case scenario you are "stuck" as an enlisted soldier for a year or so after graduation, but on the plus side you've already knocked out Boot Camp.

 

I assume your 18ish since you're looking at college? I'm curious as to what "plenty of experience" is at that point in ones life. To be clear I'm not one who thinks that all good officers have been enlisted first, but you can certainly grow from your experience as an enlisted man prior to making the transition if that option provides the benefits of free school, learning about various airframes while in school, etc.

Mike

I don't have an major issue with it, I'd rather jump start my career.

 

As for leadership, I may have misspoke a bit since i don't have a lot of age under my belt. But I am an Eagle Scout, coordinated numerous public events and service projects, student government, assistant manager at work, captain on my lacrosse team, etc. So I more so have a solid foundation.

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Like every other enlisted grunt I met ;) Just giving you a hard time. You may well make an excellent leader and officer, just know that there are many enlisted leaders throughout the ranks. The officers largely serve as the bridge between leading the platoon and what the goals of the mission as part of the bigger picture are... at least on the ground combat front. The guys leading the fight are the NCOs.

 

Plenty of guys here can elaborate on how thats different in the aviation world...

 

That said, if you are dead set on flying your whole career and also going to college, it seems your safest route is guard aviation maintainance to pay for school, and a woft application to coincide with around when you graduate.

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