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Looks like sh*t is starting to stink at D Co.


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#21 itsbigfootguys

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 22:32

This is not the first time I know of a female flight student drummed out of D Co based only on rumors from fellow students who did not like her. Is it a trend? Maybe. I hope it gets looked at, at least, because careers and lives have been ruined on simple hearsay. 

 

She makes an excellent point about GOMORs at the end of her video. Since they are administrative and non-judicial, they can be issued scary easy, and if they are filed permanently they are career enders. i don't think going away from GOMORs completely is the answer, I think the power to formally reprimand an officer should remain, especially when there is no ability to UCMJ. However, a permanently filed GOMOR should fall under UCMJ, since it carries the same weight and consequence as UCMJ action. 

 

Things like this is why I was a hermit as a WO1 in flight school. I was friendly with my classmates but largely kept them out of my social life. There are too many examples of students losing their career over something they wouldn't even get counseled for in the real army. The CG at the time I went through had a hard on for kicking out flight students, and he wielded his GOMOR signing pen openly. It didn't matter if you were guilty or innocent, if you did something he simply didnt like, you were gone. His liberal use of the GOMOR definitely got rid of a few dirtbags, but in the collateral damage several excellent officers and pilots were lost. The same issues she described existed at that time. D CO used SMO as investigative officers, hearsay statements were admitted as evidence against the accused, members of the chain of command would make sexist and derogatory comments, and the legal office was unable to assist students, as were the legal offices of Benning. The removal of evidence, the unwillingness of command to speak to soldiers regarding the issue, and the lack of awareness by BN and BDE regarding the issue is something I have not seen. 

 

Also new to me was the suggestion that a relationship with a stick buddy could be characterized as inappropriate, and I agree with her rationalization at the end that even if  she had a relationship with him, it would not violate the Army's policy on fraternization. In fact, if relationships with stick buddies and fellow flight students were grounds for removal, half of the people I knew in flight school should have been kicked out. I know of half a dozen that got married to a flight student. 

 

I am going to keep an eye on this, because I want to know the outcome. D CO has been dirty for a long time, and I am glad the "Spotlight" and "Limelight" is finally on them. 


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#22 ajm872000

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 05:46

This is not the first time I know of a female flight student drummed out of D Co based only on rumors from fellow students who did not like her. Is it a trend? Maybe. I hope it gets looked at, at least, because careers and lives have been ruined on simple hearsay. 

 

She makes an excellent point about GOMORs at the end of her video. Since they are administrative and non-judicial, they can be issued scary easy, and if they are filed permanently they are career enders. i don't think going away from GOMORs completely is the answer, I think the power to formally reprimand an officer should remain, especially when there is no ability to UCMJ. However, a permanently filed GOMOR should fall under UCMJ, since it carries the same weight and consequence as UCMJ action. 

 

Things like this is why I was a hermit as a WO1 in flight school. I was friendly with my classmates but largely kept them out of my social life. There are too many examples of students losing their career over something they wouldn't even get counseled for in the real army. The CG at the time I went through had a hard on for kicking out flight students, and he wielded his GOMOR signing pen openly. It didn't matter if you were guilty or innocent, if you did something he simply didnt like, you were gone. His liberal use of the GOMOR definitely got rid of a few dirtbags, but in the collateral damage several excellent officers and pilots were lost. The same issues she described existed at that time. D CO used SMO as investigative officers, hearsay statements were admitted as evidence against the accused, members of the chain of command would make sexist and derogatory comments, and the legal office was unable to assist students, as were the legal offices of Benning. The removal of evidence, the unwillingness of command to speak to soldiers regarding the issue, and the lack of awareness by BN and BDE regarding the issue is something I have not seen. 

 

Also new to me was the suggestion that a relationship with a stick buddy could be characterized as inappropriate, and I agree with her rationalization at the end that even if  she had a relationship with him, it would not violate the Army's policy on fraternization. In fact, if relationships with stick buddies and fellow flight students were grounds for removal, half of the people I knew in flight school should have been kicked out. I know of half a dozen that got married to a flight student. 

 

I am going to keep an eye on this, because I want to know the outcome. D CO has been dirty for a long time, and I am glad the "Spotlight" and "Limelight" is finally on them. 

Someone mentioned earlier that the Lieutenant who reported the incident originally is married (I believe the Lieutenant also said this in her video) so if that's accurate that's where the whole inappropriate relationship thing came in. I agree that GOMORs are dangerous. I've only ever seen 1 filed locally. In fact, there are so many different ways the Army can get one over on you administratively that a formal court martial is rarely needed. The Army is quickly becoming a zero defect culture. Previously your Lieutenant files would have been masked so she would have been able to recover from a GOMOR, but now that they aren't, even one bad OER can do you in.



#23 d10

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 23:12

The Army is quickly becoming a zero defect culture.

 

Not sure if I agree with this exactly. It's something but it's not about zero defects. The system has always been exploitable to those who play politics well. Sometimes the soldiers with the least defects think they can get by simply by being a good soldier but when situations like this come up, that has little to do with whether they continue in the Army. It was like that when I was in, I heard plenty of stories of it being similar before my time, not surprised it's still the same way.



#24 Ritter

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 13:08

I know the other officer involved. Such a shame to lose a couple of good officers and pilots. I'm glad this is getting some attention. 



#25 Lindsey

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 23:04

I know the other officer involved. Such a shame to lose a couple of good officers and pilots. I'm glad this is getting some attention. 


The stick buddy? Pure curiosity, is he an LT or a WO?

#26 StockTrader

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 23:30

The stick buddy? Pure curiosity, is he an LT or a WO?


WO

#27 itsbigfootguys

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 05:18

Anyone ever hear an update on this?

#28 ACP

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 20:45

I knew both parties involved.

 

We'll call the one in the video Female 1 and the other Female 2...

 

Both wanted Apaches hardcore from the beginning of primary.

 

Female 1 was married and Female 2 was in the process of getting divorced.

 

Mid-way through instruments Female 1 told the CO that Female 2 was cheating on her husband. They pulled female 2 from the course while the investigation was ongoing. During the investigation Female 2 provided evidence that Female 1 was actually the one cheating. Female 1 was then pulled from the course for the investigation. Female 2 got herself into trouble by skipping PT a number of days and avoiding duty.

 

In the end Female 2 was set back a number of months and got some reprimands for the PT and other stuff but was let back into the course due to her being in the process of the divorce and it technically not being cheating.

 

Female 1 was eventually dropped completely as the investigation led to some questionable character issues and some of the evidence from the investigation weighing towards the true side.

 

 

As a 3rd party observer this whole thing began because they were both super competitive and wanted 64s. They both screwed themselves over by starting the whole thing.


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#29 SBuzzkill

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 14:14

That crap never ends well for anyone.



#30 dirtyfoot

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 03:14

Female 2 was a total lackluster dud who I wouldn't trust to lead a work detail, and Female 1 was often seen driving her male stick buddy's car to PT while her husband was deployed, among other questionable actions. Regardless as to the nature of her relationship with her stick buddy, she lacked sound decision making skills and the youtube video is a perfect demonstration of her immaturity. 

 

We're all better off that things turned out the way they did. 



#31 Tradewinds

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 13:28

Female 2 was a total lackluster dud who I wouldn't trust to lead a work detail,

 

We're all better off that things turned out the way they did. 

 

Except that Female 2 will now be leading those details.


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#32 dirtyfoot

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 13:44

Touche, that part does suck.

It actually amazes me how many people are given second chances. The dude who won SERE comes to mind.

Oh well. They all self-select off the island eventually.


 
Except that Female 2 will now be leading those details.



#33 Gramps

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 07:27

So, was female 2 not actually cheating in academics? I thought female 1 and some others saw her doing that and reported it due to concerns with the all the accidents happening around that time.
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#34 JohnnyD

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 15:44

Sounds like an unfortunate chain of events in which we are only getting one side of the story first hand...






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