Why 1,000 hours?

[r22butters]

So its the start of a long boring weekend and I've got nothing do do,...plus I'm getting old and can't remember if I've ever asked this before so...

 

Who came up with the 1000hr minimum and why?

 

When I asked a Tour rep at Helisuccess he said TOPS. So where did they get it?

 

Did someone do an experiment where they took pilots at 250, 500, 750, 1000, 1250 and 1500 hours, shoved them into a Jet Ranger, put them through a bunch of different scenarios and scored the results?

 

Is this based on time tested accident reports, where upon reaching 1000hrs pilots are far less likely to crash?

 

Was there a time when the average guy getting out of the Army had 1000hrs, so they just ran with that?

 

I guess what I'm asking is, is this a real number, or did someone just pull it out of their ass,..and if so, who was he?

 

I myself am only a couple hundred hours away, however based on my current flying trend I won't live long enough to reach this monumental plateau where my resume suddenly becomes visible to livable wage jobs, or to see if something magical suddenly happens to me (plus I'm just a recreational pilot), but I am still curious?

 

So to my fellow Robby guys, when you finally hit 1000hrs, did anything special happen? Was it like waking up one morning to suddenly discover,...I have pubes!?

[MLH]

Most likely related to insurance carrier accident statistics.

[kiwisfly]

Nothing much happened after I passed 1000hrs, maybe slightly more responses to resumes?

Seems like even if this is an insurance requirement some operators are able to waive this, although I'm sure not many have the need to.

[Eric Hunt]

I have seen an article from many years ago, which went something like this:

 

There are several phases to a pilot's "dangerousness":

At 100 hours, a pilot knows very little and is quite dangerous.

 

At 300 hours, he has a license and probably a job, and it is likely to be a year since he last flew with an instructor - he is still dangerous.

 

At 700 hours he has seen a bit more of life, has held a ticket for a couple of years, and thinks he is pretty smart. This is the most dangerous he will ever be.

 

But at around 1000 hours, something miraculous happens - when he decides to do something with the aircraft, there is no conscious thought process to make it happen - it just happens. He is able to concentrate on OPERATING without having to concentrate on FLYING. He has become part of the aircraft.

 

If a surgeon was told to take a scalpel and separate the pilot from the aircraft, he wouldn't know where to make the first cut.

[takefootoff]

I've totally subscribed to the CFI makes a pilot a better pilot. It's forced me to be an SME on all of the things needed to get a person to so far pass a check ride for pvt/inst. I've spent a lot of time sitting in that left seat hands off the controls pondering life and becoming extremely cynical.

 

Coming up on 700 pic heli, maybe 800 total with a fixed wing add-on mixed in there. I've been getting paid to fly for 10 months.

 

An engine failure would be an awesome opportunity for me to finally get to do a full down again. I often dream about it.

 

I've lived like a hermit and saved up, got enough money to buy turbine time and I'm gonna shoot for flying in Kurdistan.

 

https://7group.aero/jobs/helicopter-pilot-jobs/

[avbug]

I've totally subscribed to the CFI makes a pilot a better pilot. It's forced me to be an SME on all of the things needed to get a person to so far pass a check ride for pvt/inst. I've spent a lot of time sitting in that left seat hands off the controls pondering life and becoming extremely cynical.

 

Coming up on 700 pic heli, maybe 800 total with a fixed wing add-on mixed in there. I've been getting paid to fly for 10 months.

 

An engine failure would be an awesome opportunity for me to finally get to do a full down again. I often dream about it.

 

I've lived like a hermit and saved up, got enough money to buy turbine time and I'm gonna shoot for flying in Kurdistan.

 

https://7group.aero/jobs/helicopter-pilot-jobs/

 

 

You understand that "Kurdistan" (Erbil) is actually Iraq, right?

 

At 700 hours you've spent "a lot of time?" When did 700 hours become a lot of time?

[Azhigher]

Why not 1000 hours?

[takefootoff]

HA!

 

I knew that if I tried hard enough that I could summon the troll.

 

And that piece of the globe belongs to the Kurdish people, it's Kurdistan. Iraq? Sure on the maps it says that, but the British drew all of that stuff up and look how they turned out.

[Guest pokey]

HA!

 

I knew that if I tried hard enough that I could summon the troll.

 

 

 

that's only 'cause yer not on the 'no fly/ignore' list (yet)

[avbug]

HA!

 

I knew that if I tried hard enough that I could summon the troll.

 

And that piece of the globe belongs to the Kurdish people, it's Kurdistan. Iraq? Sure on the maps it says that, but the British drew all of that stuff up and look how they turned out.

 

 

You haven't spent any quality time in that part of the world, have you?

 

Perhaps you should, rather than drawing what you think you know from wikipedia.

[Wally]

The magic 1000 hours is where your 3 number TT becomes 4 digits. It takes a long time to make it a 5 digit figure.

 

 

 

 

The Turks would certainly agree that Kurdistan is in Iraq.

 

The Kurds themselves are in Turkey, Syria, some other little bits of heaven in the region and which they think should be "Kurdistan". But with most formal success being used by Western Powers- in Iraq. The Kurdistan issue could upset the balance of power as much as the SunniS-Shia dispute.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Wally

[C.R.O.]

To drag this away from the geo-political:

 

 

Nothing much happened after I passed 1000hrs, maybe slightly more responses to resumes?

Seems like even if this is an insurance requirement some operators are able to waive this, although I'm sure not many have the need to.

 

I think this is one of the biggest reasons. Insurance companies obviously base their rates on their risk factors, and flight hours are one method they use to identify and mitigate their risk. Operators then base their requirements on that.

 

Beyond that, it's also a factor in the market. When I started flying, not that many years ago, a large portion of the CFI's were being hired off by 750-850 hours. 1,000 hour really was magical. 1,000 hours and pulse was the statement I often heard. Instrument ratings were something you got if you had the extra cash or desire.

 

Fast forward a year or two, about the time that Silver State had their little meltdown, things changed a bit. Soon 1,000 hours wasn't enough, there were a whole lot of hungry pilots. It became 1,200-1,500 and you need a Instrument rating and a personal reference from someone currently in the company.

 

It changes every few years it seems. I'm not up on where people are getting hired into the turbine world right now.

 

A lot of it is based on how the industry is doing as a whole. If there are a lot of pilots with 1,500+ hours looking for jobs, then entry-level operators can be a bit pickier in who they hire, so the requirements go up.

 

A market slow-down in one segment can have a trickle down effect within the industry.

 

An EMS operator may change their requirements because they are seeing a significant change in their pass/fail rates during training of pilots, or in accident rates. They may decide that instead of simply requiring an Instrument rating or ATP, they need to increase the number of instrument hours that their new pilots need to arrive with. That decreases the available pilot pool.

 

Down the line, a tour pilot who has been dutifully working towards getting 2,500 hours, and 100 hours of night to meet the EMS companies published minimums nows finds that with the increased number of instrument hours needed, he/she is no closer to getting out of the tour industry and into the EMS field.

 

And since that tour pilot with 2,500 hours isn't going to move on from his tour job, that means that there is one fewer slot for a 1,000 hour CFI to get into his first turbine job. And with one fewer CFI moving on, that's one few slot available to the 200 hour CFI looking for his first job.

 

So basically, what I am saying, my advice really, is to stop focusing on "magical" hours. Instead of focusing on what the industry is requiring right now, start focusing on what the industry is going to require in the future. And since you can't predict that with any degree of certainty, start getting all the experience you can.

 

Understand and accept that the job market will likely shift on you again before you start applying to the next job. Learn to adapt. Get your ATP, get all the night and instrument hours you can. Network like your career depends on it (because it does). Learn how to write a good resume. Find unique ways to make yourself useful and develop a reputation as a good pilot and employee.

 

I'm fortunate, in the hiring I am doing, I'm not worried about insurance requirements. Within our job ads, we have stated specific requirements. I am not held to only hiring those who meet those requirements. I can use my discretion based on a pilots personality, work ethic and reputation within the industry.

[helonorth]

Spot on.

[r22butters]

 

...When I started flying, not that many years ago, a large portion of the CFI's were being hired off by 750-850 hours. 1,000 hour really was magical. 1,000 hours and pulse was the statement I often heard. Instrument ratings were something you got if you had the extra cash or desire.

 

 

Yeah I remember those pre Silverstate days. That's when they were also saying a 500 pilot could get into the GOM as SIC,...though I never met anyone who did?

 

Thing is, even though an 800hr guy could get out of teaching, the big boys like Papillon and Temsco were still at the 1000hr minimum!

 

Has anyone ever seen them go below that?

[C.R.O.]

Yeah I remember those pre Silverstate days. That's when they were also saying a 500 pilot could get into the GOM as SIC,...though I never met anyone who did?

 

Thing is, even though an 800hr guy could get out of teaching, the big boys like Papillon and Temsco were still at the 1000hr minimum!

 

Has anyone ever seen them go below that?

 

It happened a fair bit back then. Even after the Silver State debacle, if you had the right connections. I had an opportunity to go sit 2nd seat for PHI when I had 750 hours or so, but I didn't have an instrument rating at the time, and lost out due to that.

 

Around 2012 I helped a friend get hired at a major company with only about 700 hours. In fact, in order to hire him, he had to meet their minimums according their job ad. So they used his resume to create the job ad, and then hired him. Then changed the minimums back up to 1,000hrs or so the next day.

[r22butters]

Around 2012 I helped a friend get hired at a major company with only about 700 hours. In fact, in order to hire him, he had to meet their minimums according their job ad. So they used his resume to create the job ad, and then hired him. Then changed the minimums back up to 1,000hrs or so the next day.

 

Well that answers my question. Its just a completely bullshit number someone pulled out of their ass!

[adam32]

Don't forget the pencil whippers with under 300 hours who magically have 2000 that get hired flying twin turbines...

[C.R.O.]

Well that answers my question. Its just a completely bullshit number someone pulled out of their ass!

 

I think you miss the point.

 

The hour requirements for most jobs are put there because companies want the best odds of getting a pilot who will be successful in their position. They want someone who will be able to pass their training and make the company money by flying safely and profitably. Sometimes requirements are mandated by gov't agencies, either the FAA, DOI, DOD, DOS, etc., sometimes they are mandated by another external organization (CAMTS). Sometimes it's insurance requirements. Sometimes it's just the Chief Pilot or D.O. deciding on a number based on their own analysis.

 

But the goal is the same; have some method of evaluating the odds of a pilot being able to do the job profitably and safely. Even then, that required number of hours is no guarantee that a pilot will succeed. But it's often the one tool available to those who are hiring, barring other pertinent information.

 

A personal reference (from the right individual) goes a long way, and is often times worth more any number of hours. Simply that's because it's a greater guarantee about how an employee will perform.

 

 

Don't forget the pencil whippers with under 300 hours who magically have 2000 that get hired flying twin turbines...

 

Don't think those individuals weren't part of the cause of some companies raising their minimums at certain times in the past.

Edited March 13, 2017 by C.R.O.

[avbug]

When doing an evaluation, I've found that in most cases, I know what I need to know about a pilot before we ever get to the aircraft. Falsified logs, misleading or untrue pasts, doctored employment history, that can all be painted with the past, but experience can't be faked. It comes out painfully clearly, and whether the pilot claims a thousand hours or ten, his decisions, manner of speech, knowledge, application, practice, behavior, attitude, and ultimately talent in and out of the cockpit will betray whatever might be written on paper.

 

A thousand hours is merely a starting point.

 

It's also a trigger point for insurance policies, based on insured claims and demographics.

Edited March 13, 2017 by avbug

[r22butters]

I think you miss the point.

 

 

I get why companies have minimums, its just that specific number 1000 that seems to come up so often that I thought it might have some "real" significance?

 

A guy who hires 500hr pilots once told me he'd never again hire someone who wasn't a CFI because in his experience pilots who aren't CFIs are "hot-doggers".

 

So I wondered if maybe there was something like that when it comes to the 1000hr minimum,...like a consensus amongst entry level turbine operators that (in their experience) pilots with less than 1000hrs are more reckless, or cause more accidents, or just don't have what it takes to fly tourists around in a Jet Ranger than pilots with more than 1000hrs?

 

Of course when I discovered that at 400hrs I was perfectly qualified to take passengers for a ride in a Jet Ranger as long as there was money in my wallet, I got a little suspicious that this very popular number was total bullshit?

 

,...and it seems it is!

[Rupert]

Back in the mid-70's most Vietnam returnee's had 1500 hours, and with that many 1500 hour pilots, the insurance companies said they wouldn't insure anyone with fewer hours.

The insurance companies will continue to lower the hour requirement as the pilot pool gets smaller.

From my experience, most pilots hit competency somewhere between 200-300 hours in helicopters. At 500 hours, a pilot has all the skills he will ever need. After that, a pilot learns weather like he never imagined possible, and how to get along with the customer and the employer.

I've flown night vision goggle class D hoists (humans on a line) with 500 hour copilots and they could fly as well as I me.

Eventually we might see pilots having to take personality profiling tests, prehire, regardless of number of hours. Character and judgement count more than hours.