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Life After Army MTP


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#1 Jpaint21

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 22:41

Is there any hope of a decent career path in aviation for an Army UH-60 MTP with less than 1200 hours? After six years of flying with sequestration and everything else, it's time to move on as another ten years probably still wouldn't get that 2000 hours. Bachelor's degree and A&P to go along with ten years in the Army as avionics bench repair and then pilot and MTP. Currently working QC as a CW2. The only jobs anyone seems to think this qualifies you for are the same jobs someone could do with an associate's degree, entry level A&P stuff. Is it really ten years of wasted time that the Army leaves you with if you don't get those magical hours?
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#2 r22butters

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:32



Stop cryin' and go fly tours,...geez!
The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#3 Jpaint21

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:37

Yeah that's not going to happen.  I have a wife and two kids to support and she's put up with enough BS in the last ten years with the military.  I'm getting out of the military to be a better husband and father.  If I wanted a crappy job, I'd just stay in the Army since I get paid a heck of a lot better than a tour pilot.  I love flying and always have, but there are limits to what I'm willing to put my family through to chase my dreams.

 

If the answer is "no, my experience is worthless", then so be it and I'll go find something else to do.  I'm just trying to figure out if that is for sure the answer.  The Army transition people don't have much knowledge about aviation so I thought I'd try somewhere else.  There's no reason to be rude about it.



#4 Wally

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:17

In your opinion, what is a 'decent career path'? Do you want to fly, fix or a stable family life?

If you want to fly, you're entering a very competitive market, 1200 hours isn't rock star at this time, in this market.

 

They are ALL crappy jobs, pick the specialty that you think you can live with the BS for the longest.

I liked off-shore, I would still be there (33 years at this point) had I not started a second family with somebody carrying a high academic load.

I also liked HEMS, but that was not a function of compensation, employment or any employer aspect of the job- it was with a happy base. Not a lot of flying....

I know pilots who are happy in utility and tours, never did those.

Instructing, not so much.

What do you want to do?


Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#5 METT-TC

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:26

Are you going to retire (prior enlisted, so somewhere in the 16-18 range I'm assuming)? That makes a difference on what you can put up with post retirement. Are you going to get a HAA job at 1200? No. Does HAA pay more than being a Vegas tour pilot...actually, not really (or perhaps even a hell no if you are full time and it includes tips--which if you can afford a helicopter ride, aren't generally anything to sniff at). Also, it is a set schedule (vs HAA / utility) and home every night. So, before you turn your nose up at it, don't. A couple years there, you are above 2k hours and on to the next...if you want to. And those are only TWO parts of the industry--you have some research to work.

 

So, no it isn't wasted. But you / me / most everyone else, isn't just going to walk into a job (without an "in" / networking with those you know or knew) and dazzle them with our military "awesomeness". It takes prep and work, but yeah, you have a viable out if you choose the path. I'm not going to talk it here (outside of mentioning), but you need to get your ATP-H prior to departure, figure out your hours (if you don't already have a logbook IAW with 14 CFR 1.1 and 14 CFR 61.51...FAA logs time mucho differently than .mil...as an MTP especially, you might have an extra 100-300 hours with all that ground time that ends with flying), and I'd consider attending both HeliSuccess in Las Vegas next Oct/Nov and also the HAI convention that will be held at the end of February (moves around too, but Vegas again next year), so that you can, learn from the seminars, network, and have dedicated face time with employers to see what is out there...and who is interested in you.

 

Above, you're like "what the hell?", well welcome to the game--1200 or 4000 hours, the vast, vast majority of us have to work it / don't walk right into it.



#6 Azhigher

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:38

Yeah, with 1200 you're stuck with tours or maybe ENG. Tours can pay you fairly well if you're on with the right operator, but years ago when I was doing them they weren't too high on guys right out of the military. I'd say if you want to stick with aviation maybe try the rotor wing to fixed wing military transition that some airlines are running. Granted, that's going to be a crappy job at a regional for a while, but at least it'll put you on a decent career path. If you need to support your family and not have them support you for a bit I'd say get out of aviation all together.


Edited by Azhigher, 14 March 2017 - 11:40.


#7 r22butters

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:06

 There's no reason to be rude about it.

Well gee, I'm really sorry guy!

A Bachelor's Degree, A & P, 1100+ hours all turbine, military experience, and (I'm guessing) a pension and VA benefits?

I feel your pain, you are in my prayers!
The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#8 Jpaint21

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:30

There is no pension or continuation of VA benefits when you leave the military after 10 years.  I also don't have 1100 hours.  I've spent over 6 years flying for the Army and still have less than 900 hours.  I'm simply trying to find out if the MTP experience means anything to anyone in the civilian world.  Apparently it doesn't. Thanks for the help.



#9 METT-TC

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:46

Well gee, I'm really sorry guy!

A Bachelor's Degree, A & P, 1100+ hours all turbine, military experience, and (I'm guessing) a pension and VA benefits?

I feel your pain, you are in my prayers!

Mmm'kay. Butters is a bit of an amateur pilot and a professional troll on here--try to excuse him even if there is no excuse.

 

Some good comments above. If you're still around (yeah, likely...), post this down in the .mil forum and there be more discussion.

 

Butters--flight school starts every two weeks. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/ And thank you for your service.



#10 r22butters

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:47

There is no pension or continuation of VA benefits when you leave the military after 10 years.  I also don't have 1100 hours.  I've spent over 6 years flying for the Army and still have less than 900 hours.  I'm simply trying to find out if the MTP experience means anything to anyone in the civilian world.  Apparently it doesn't. Thanks for the help.


Well then if you actually have less than 900 hours instead of "less than 1200 hours" (that's a HUGE difference) then you are correct, your hours won't get you anything but teaching or tours in a 44, for crap pay and a long road to a livable wage!

No pension after ten years sucks, but maybe that's why my friend stayed in the Navy for the full twenty. He now makes over 100k and that's before his pension,...of course he's not a pilot!

Edited by r22butters, 15 March 2017 - 13:10.

The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#11 r22butters

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 14:06

  

Mmm'kay. Butters is a bit of an amateur pilot and a professional troll on here--try to excuse him even if there is no excuse.
 
Some good comments above. If you're still around (yeah, likely...), post this down in the .mil forum and there be more discussion.
 
Butters--flight school starts every two weeks. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/ And thank you for your service.


Is it really ten years of wasted time that the Army leaves you with if you don't get those magical hours?


This comment just makes it seem like he joined just for the hours, but then he already misrepresented how many hours he has, so who can tell what his situation really is?

Now I'm sure this comment just erked you even more, but I am a troll and that's what we do!

However, I am still just an amateur troll,...unless you want to start paying me for my services?

Oh, and by the way, young pilots used to come here to posts things like, "I haven't flown since my CFII ckeckride TWO YEARS AGO!"

So when someone comes here with (supposedly) 1100+ hours (that's what we civilians mean when we say, "I have less than 1200 hours") and its all turbine, which means he has a good chance at getting in with the likes of Papillon or Sundance, making decent money and home every night, but they act like that job is beneath them, it pisses me off!

Edited by r22butters, 15 March 2017 - 14:14.

The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#12 Wally

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 15:14

Your MTP experience won't be much advantage in the pilot side. There are jobs which value maintenance expertise in a pilot, but they are not a huge portion of the market. While I was in the gulf of Mexico, PHI used pilot/mechanics who were paid a premium to cover both jobs on low volume, remote contracts. You loved it or hated it. And that was twenty years ago...

Some utility operators seem to value pilot/mechs.

Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#13 Guest_pokey_*

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 20:56

. Butters is a bit of an amateur pilot and a professional troll 

 

.........and there is something wrong with that?   You seem to do ok in both of them departments too, altho there are a few on here that put you both to shame. Butters,? i like to think of him more along the lines of showing some of us how seriously we shouldn't take others.



#14 METT-TC

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 21:16

 

.........and there is something wrong with that?   You seem to do ok in both of them departments too, altho there are a few on here that put you both to shame. Butters,? i like to think of him more along the lines of showing some of us how seriously we shouldn't take others.

Who are you?



#15 Guest_pokey_*

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:16

Who are you?

 

what is it you want to know? i'm not shy. I'm just a poster on this forum for now. Do you require more info, i would be happy to supply it, & have done on this forum over the years, i have stated many time who and what i do. Unlike some on here, i have nothing to hide.



#16 METT-TC

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:19

Confirming we have not had any interaction prior to your input above. We haven't and shan't.

#17 Guest_pokey_*

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:41

OH,  METT-TC?,,,, i just noticed you visited my profile, i hope you got all the info that you requested there, if not? pm me and i will be happy to fill in any gaps, until then? you have a nice day.



#18 twinhueyman

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:36

MTP time is really only worthwhile working government contracts. Most of the sub-3500 hour MTPs I know did contracts when they got out.

If you really want to keep flying, use your GI bill to get up to CFII, which should put you around 1000 hours which puts you competitive for jobs. The large amount of turbine time might help. If no luck, instruct up to 1500TT and your chances improve.

If you want to make a comfortable income and can stand not to fly, get into maintenance management or quality. AS9100 quality managers make good money. The jobs are out there and you're well qualified with only a few certs that might help.

As always, network and apply everywhere. You might be surprised what you could come across.

MTPs are always blown away when they find out that every pilot in the civvy world qualifies as an MTP.

Good luck!
Mike

#19 Hotdogs

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:41

  
So when someone comes here with (supposedly) 1100+ hours (that's what we civilians mean when we say, "I have less than 1200 hours") and its all turbine, which means he has a good chance at getting in with the likes of Papillon or Sundance, making decent money and home every night, but they act like that job is beneath them, it pisses me off!

 

 

 

Look dude. I'm going to put it to you bluntly. Those +1100 hours in the military are earned. The amount of planning,  hours of studying, type of flying, stress, and risk to mission/force are significantly higher than Day VFR or a Night IFR hop that most civilian pilots will experience at those numbers of hours. There's a reason why there's a selection process in order to do that job. Additionally, You don't get handed sh*t in the military, a unit can swap/trade pilots off of flight schedule if one is underperforming or doesn't have his head in the game. It's called selective scheduling. This is not even to mention the type of deployments and hazards in a combat zone that literally greater than 75% of military pilots have experienced in the last 15 years. You haven't done any of that, nor should you pass judgement on the types of people who have experienced it and just want to take care of their family.

 

It pisses me off that you complain about just hours. I don't care about hours. I care about getting home, having a decent sleep schedule, working normal hours, and being with family for greater than 2 day weekend. He is making a decision for his family and not to appease his resume, and he sure as hell does not give a crap about your preception of a vain attitude towards low paying/high tempo jobs that some people would beg to have. 

 

Lastly, if you want those hours and licenses, then get off of your whiney little butt and join the military and bag some hours. Otherwise, think before putting your fingers to plastic. Your perception is based off of the vantage point from which you sit, and you are way off base. 


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#20 SBuzzkill

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 14:11

I think r22butters is right on the money in this case.  I've met too many military pilots who think their experiences with combat somehow set them apart, and that they should be walking into jobs with half the flight time as their civilian competitors.  That's not reality, and the sooner guys come to terms with that the easier it will be for them when it's time to transition out.

 

Jpaint21, if you're looking for a decent career path with your hours I would recommend stepping away from the helicopter game.  Go for that Envoy offer, get some jet time, and find a good job.  It's gonna suck for about 5 years, but with your low hours I think it's the best option for you out of the gate.


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