is the career worth the price of admission?

[ByteFlighter]

Well, if you want honesty,...?

 

I think commercial aviation is cold, heartless, stuckup, and two-faced, and I hope you're all replaced by robots!

 

 

Yeah screw those mean dirty evil capitalist! Socialism for all!! yay

[AS350 pilot]

It's obvious by some of your comments that you don't work in the utility and fire field of helicopter aviation. Flying a long line is a humbling experience…..maybe you should give it a try.

 

Oh, and trust me "guy," you didn't burst my bubble

[ByteFlighter]

It's obvious by some of your comments that you don't work in the utility and fire field of helicopter aviation. Flying a long line is a humbling experience…..maybe you should give it a try.

 

Oh, and trust me "guy," you didn't burst my bubble

 

Look guy, I could piss in your cornflakes all night if you keep throwing me soft balls like "flying a long line" and "humbling". I think "flying into small arms fire" and "Hovering in a sand storm" are humbling enough.

 

Time to rein this troll chain in.

[Jaybee]

To the OP - based on your totally unrealistic numbers in your first past and then your unacceptance of "negative" advice - you should totally go for it ! You'll definitely succeed where many others have failed ! (Sarcasm off)

[Jaybee]

To the OP - based on your totally unrealistic numbers in your first past and then your unacceptance of "negative" advice - you should totally go for it ! You'll definitely succeed where many others have failed ! (Sarcasm off)

[Jaybee]

To the OP - based on your totally unrealistic numbers in your first past and then your unacceptance of "negative" advice - you should totally go for it ! You'll definitely succeed where many others have failed ! (Sarcasm off)

[ARM_Coder]

I began my PP course full of dreams. I always loved to fly, and suddenly became determined to become a professional pilot. When I finally got my CPL and CFI licenses, my feelings were more about emptiness than accomplishment. One month later I was back to a workstation writing software - a lot of it.

 

What happened?

 

Well, I realized that financially this career does not pay off for most. There are the elite pilots who earn big bucks, but they are very few and far between. Most rotary-wing pilots have a meager income. The CFIs' pay, well, it's almost incompatible with a sustainable living. They really need to have a second source of income.

 

There's also the fact that I began to miss dealing with software. I LOVE SOFTWARE!

 

I say all of this, to make one question himself: Do I REALLY want to work as a professional pilot? Or it's just the case I love to fly?

 

Now I see that these are two totally different things.

 

I don't regret spending a ton of money in my pilot's course. Yes, today I could use this money for other neat (and profitable) projects, but this was a dream made true.

 

Fact is, I'm now starting my own technology company. If it gets fruitful, I will be able to fly as I like. Sometimes the key to fly is to get the income elsewhere.

 

Cheers!

[takefootoff]

What happened to this thread!

[r22butters]

...I will be able to fly as I like. Sometimes the key to fly is to get the income elsewhere.

If I could just go back and talk to my 18 year old self, I'd say, college isn't a place to "find your place in the universe!" Pick a major that society actually needs, something in the Science and Engineering side of things, stick with it, make tons of money, then buy a 22 at 30 and enjoy life!

 

Buddy of mine spent 20 years in the Navy doing something with computers (never could get a straight answer). After getting out he used his experience to get a tech job making around $70k, then used his benefits to get his Bachelor's, then his Master's, which led to two pay raises! He now makes over $100k (before his Navy pension) and at 40 could easily have afforded his own 22,...if he hadn't wasted all his money on a big house, wife, and kids!

 

"Worth the price of admission?",...sure, if someone else is paying!

[Eric Hunt]

Bear in mind that the price of admission often carries a sting - a ticket to the AIDS convention. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. This will cost you a bucketload more than the original licence.

 

But as has been stated above, the price may be simply a Return of Service Obligation. Join the military, get paid to learn and gain experience and protect your fellow countrymen against the ogre of (insert appropriate person), and come out with every ticket desired by employers.

 

However, comma, you will NOT come out with commercial sense, this will come from working in the civvy industry. But in most cases, it will come. My personal route was military, police, commercial, VIP, EMS, and instructing to finish off. Out of it now and just sniping from the sidelines.

[Nearly Retired]

DEEZALL wrote:

I've been looking at different forums, all i can say is wow!! I think some of these guys just want to watch the world burn. or they're afraid of the market saturating even more. I think I'm gonna try it, might take me a while but it'll be worth it.

 

 

Well then! Sounds like you had you mind made up before you ever made the first post. Soooo...did you ask the question hoping for simple validation?

[ARM_Coder]

If I could just go back and talk to my 18 year old self, I'd say, college isn't a place to "find your place in the universe!" Pick a major that society actually needs, something in the Science and Engineering side of things, stick with it, make tons of money, then buy a 22 at 30 and enjoy life!

 

It's not that simple. I tinker with electronics since 1979, and computers since 1982, way before I was concerned about money - or helicopters. I was a teenager then.

 

I also could have followed a career that pays way more than mine (eg. MD, judge of court, exec in a big company, etc) but I didn't because I love what I do.

 

Likewise, I know several helicopter pilots that earn less than me, but they LOVE what they do. They are happy in their career, period. Who am I to argue with them?

 

To boil down this long story about helicopter career, I state my 2 cents:

 

- If you are after financial reward, stay away.

- If you love to fly, but are not ready for the rigors of the career, stay away.

- If you love to fly and love the career (with all the rigors that it implies), definitely go for it.

 

Cheers!

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

Simply put it is a career of passion.

 

Looking at the raw data (money & time spent vs the financial return) most people would say it is not worth it.

 

Most will fail. I generally encourage curious outsiders to stay away from this industry; spending 80k, not getting a job and having no other skills is a terrible situation to be in. The helicopter driver business is over-saturated and you will have to work your ass off to make the cut. If you do, expect to live like a gypsy while working for scraps for the first 3-5 years.

 

I started flying when I was 18. Young and dumb; I made a 100% impulsive and emotional decision to borrow money and learn to fly helicopters. About 1/2 through training, the reality of what I had embarked on set in and I was mortified at what the career outlook was like.

 

I worked hard and succeeded, but it was rough. When I look back on my first two flying jobs (CFI and then tours), I was miserable. There are a handful of good memories, but for the most part I was absolutely exhausted, stressed and broke.

 

Getting on with a better tour company and then switching to offshore flying was when things really started to get better. I was able to make more then enough to live comfortably, was flying well maintained aircraft and had a much better life/work balance.

 

I'm very satisfied with how things are now. I have enough experience and connections to find work easily. And I am optimistic about future opportunities. I am working towards switching over to twin IFR helicopters, which can be a very cushy job.

 

So in summary, for me it was worth it. But it is completely dependent on the individual; your attitude and passion. And it will be a lot of hard work starting off.

[mudkow60]

I just finished a 20 year military flying career.

 

I have just started a utility (fire/SAR/law) job that I am very much enjoying. I like the people I work with, the missions we do, and the machines we fly. The pay and benefits are good, too.

 

I would not change much, and am extremely blessed and happy to be where I am at.

 

Just my 1 cent worth of input...

[r22butters]

Here's a fun read for a long "movement"!

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters/comments/6zt6cs/gatekeepers_in_aviation/

[DEEZALL]

DEEZALL wrote:

 

 

Well then! Sounds like you had you mind made up before you ever made the first post. Soooo...did you ask the question hoping for simple validation?

No not really. I have been reading and reading and reading. This post has gained a bit of momentum, dammit man! I am not looking for some sort of validation. I was actually trying to find real word outlooks and personal experiences. But it seems to have stirred up a hornets nest! My goal wasn't to piss you guys off. When I started as mechanic it was something i did at the house on my own cars and trucks. There wasn't the ole interweb to see what I was getting into. When I switched to the heavy duty market; I saw dollar signs. I didn't think about or investigate what I was getting into. All I saw was a $10/hr raise to do the same thing only with bigger parts and tools. After 24 years, it's gotten way too hard on the body. I don't have have any kids, so the moving won't be as big of an issue. All in all, there is a lot of good info in here.

[ARM_Coder]

No not really. I have been reading and reading and reading. This post has gained a bit of momentum, dammit man! I am not looking for some sort of validation. I was actually trying to find real word outlooks and personal experiences. But it seems to have stirred up a hornets nest! My goal wasn't to piss you guys off. When I started as mechanic it was something i did at the house on my own cars and trucks. There wasn't the ole interweb to see what I was getting into. When I switched to the heavy duty market; I saw dollar signs. I didn't think about or investigate what I was getting into. All I saw was a $10/hr raise to do the same thing only with bigger parts and tools. After 24 years, it's gotten way too hard on the body. I don't have have any kids, so the moving won't be as big of an issue. All in all, there is a lot of good info in here.

 

"I was actually trying to find real word outlooks and personal experiences."

 

You got it.

 

"But it seems to have stirred up a hornets nest! My goal wasn't to piss you guys off."

 

You didn't. You are not the first, and not the last, to come with this questioning. But things are harder for those who opt to begin older. I tried at 48. If I *really* fought for it maybe today I would be working as CFI, with real work chances 2~3 years ahead. But at this point of my life I decided to take another path.

 

No one is telling you to quit, in the end it's YOUR life.

 

"After 24 years, it's gotten way too hard on the body."

 

Not wanting to make more scaremongering, but *first of all*, make sure you can get you medical certificate, for now and with good chances of renewing it for the years to come.

 

Good luck!

[r22butters]

Sitting in a helicopter all day ain't that easy on the body either! An hour an a half in the 22 and my knees start to hurt, and after an eight hour ferry flight once my back was killing me!

[Wally]

48 years as a professional pilot. I still miss it.

[DEEZALL]

i want to thank you ll for your input. possibly changing careers to begin with is somewhat terrifying. so every bit of recommendation you all have given, I am very greatfull for you guys to take the time talk to me about your experiences. I am trying to get into the DR. to get a certificate. once i get that (or get shot down) I will go from there.

[ARM_Coder]

I am trying to get into the DR. to get a certificate.

 

I'm not sure how things work there in US, but I'd go first to the flight school (or get advice from fellow US citizens in this forum) to get the details on how and where to obtain the medical.

 

Good luck!

[DEEZALL]

 

I'm not sure how things work there in US, but I'd go first to the flight school (or get advice from fellow US citizens in this forum) to get the details on how and where to obtain the medical.

 

Good luck!

I've found an occupational clinic. As soon as I have a minute, I will make contact and get the info I need I hope.

[LionHeart]

If you're still looking for personal accounts, I'll share mine with you. Realize though, that I've only been in the industry for a little under six years.

 

To start off, the price you listed would be pretty tough to pull off for getting all of the training and certs you will need to become a CFI. I'm not going to throw out a dollar amount, but I can tell you to expect it to take roughly 60 hrs of flight training to get your PPL. Of course some guys/gals do it in less, but if I had to absolutely give a ball park average, that would be it. Heck, I've seen some take 80 hrs. It is super subjective. After PPL, You should really only need the minimum required hours to achieve the remaining ratings (absolutely get your CFII, and budget for it). From there, doing the math of the cost is up to you, although I strongly recommend to leave $ in the budget for competent ground instruction (the importance of this cannot be overstated). The whole flying helicopters thing is pretty academic, and actually learning how to control the machine is the easy part.

 

Expect it to take roughly two years for you to get all of your ratings. I am always amazed at how many people just expect to be hired as an instructor at their flight school after they finish CFI. I've had conversations with many students who have no real plan of action as to how they will get hired to teach at the school house. Those are the guys that walk away with 100k in debt, and nothing to truly show for it. Getting hired as a CFI at your flight school is one of the very most critical steps in your career. You have to be the best student, and have the best attitude. Remember, every other student is gunning for the same job. If you don't get hired by the school that trained you, your already slim chances get even slimmer.

 

If you are fortunate enough to get hired as a CFI, expect to teach students how not to crash a helicopter for roughly 2-3 years. Depending on the size of your flight school, you may have a lot of students, you may have very few. Either way, you'll be very poor. If you have any debt, get rid of it before you go down this road.

 

Now that you've instructed for a few years and grinded out every .5 hour MX and discovery flight even on your only day off (never turn down a flight hour unless it's for safety), all the numbers in your log book add up to 1000. Once this happens, it's common I think to have the feeling that a job will be easy to find. After all, you just spent the last 2-3 years as a CFI. You've turned down countless time with friends and family, and given up every other thing you enjoy, just to reach this milestone. Well, surprise! Getting that first post-CFI job can be the toughest part. The worst of it is that much of it depends on timing. Since this first 'real' job will be tours or maybe even the gulf, you'd better hope they are hiring. If they aren't.....

 

Remember that while going through all of this, you have a 80-100k debt to figure out how to settle. In the end, from 0 to career pilot, expect to spend 6-8 years of deliberate, focused effort getting there. It is truly a marathon. Is it worth it? There is no objective answer. You will make many sacrifices and compromises along the way. For me, well worth it.

[helonorth]

$300-400K for an airline pilot? Nah.

[r22butters]

You know Helisuccess is coming up next month and it got me thinking?

 

Now to be clear this is just a hypothetical question, lets get that out of the way first, so,...

 

Of the companies listed there's only one for whom I have the hours, this tour operation in the Black Hills. Now the cost of this thing is $210, the hotel is (discounted) at $120 per night, so there's $450 right off the bat! Add in for airfare, getting to and from the airport, and parking at the airport its at least another $200 bucks!

 

So is the slim chance that one operator (most likely looking for just one pilot) would pick me out of the crowd be worth $650 bucks?

 

Five years ago I probably would have said yes, 'course I was younger, dummer, and far less cynical!

 

,...but what about YOU?