Army G1 WO Information

[METT-TC]

What opportunities are there within the active army community to move to a position where you fly more. How realistic of a goal is 160th, for example? Other units?

 

Mike

There ARE a lot of opportunities (160th, peeps darker than TF, and just plain ole conventional). Problem with conventional Army is you have the haves and the have nots. There have been worse (for some) times to be an Army Aviator than now (I was a commissioned guy in the mid 90s when the Clinton draw down was still occurring--you want infinitely "more Army" for all than now--that is an example). What? You haven't had to apply camo face paint before FLYING west of Range Road at Campbell? No air or ground budget to go to the field for the last five months of the FY (which impacted ALL flying)? That WAS the norm most years prior to spigot being turned on post 9-11. Yeah, there have been "stupider" times in the Army. Or at least as stupid.

 

Edit: 160th chances. Chances are good (try to stay Assault or Assault mentality, gain PC, and apply--kind of like WOC (100% of those that never apply never get accepted).

 

I enjoyed most of my career--it has now been a whopping 366 days since that DD 214 became effective, and I would do it again in a couple heartbeats. Some years I flew more than others (when I became a company / then battalion flight lead / then tracked stands, lack of hours became moot). I have other friends that have gotten the big green weenie at certain times in their careers (have a friend in Hawaii that transitioned from KWs to 64s and JUST (last week) started his RL prog...13 months after his AQC). I also had a stint at NTC's Eagle Team that made me realize that I didn't want to "Army" anymore (I think SBuzz is there now?), but my experience was probably much different than his (despised my head OC/boss and I wasn't Flight Det). But that was after 18 years of okay, pretty good, pretty dayum good (each unit / PCS is different).

 

I wanted to stay a helo pilot--I entertained the RTPs (the first ones came out right around my retirement/outprocessing), but my spouse asked why I would do that if I never entertained the white collar before? Didn't have a good answer...and since our income exceeds ROTH contribution requirements by a longshot, that one didn't fly either. Someone without investments, retirement (and / or significant VA disability~50% or higher) might have a different consideration, but there are many considerations / avenues.

 

Sorry to pry but would you mind sharing what happened to you that would medically keep you from flying in the army?

 

She might very well answer (or not), but AR 40-501 (look under administrative pubs as the direct google link won't work), chapter 4 has a plethora of reasons Rucker won't grant an FFD 4186. A plethora.

Edited October 2, 2017 by METT-TC

[Lindsey]

Severe, frequent, incapacitating migraines coupled with 1, maybe 2, rare sleep disorders triggered by a bad virus I had during flight school. Everything kept getting worse until it all came to a head one night pulling a 24-hour medevac shift one night and getting a migraine that completely laid me out. If we would have gotten a call I would have been at worst, completely unable to go, and at best would have dragged myself but been nothing more than self-loading ballast. That triggered a bunch of medical appointments and 5 months (so far) of trying to determine if Ive just got the one rare sleep disorder, or two. Severity is like narcolepsy. Not even waiverable for civilian flying.

[Ritter]

Severe, frequent, incapacitating migraines coupled with 1, maybe 2, rare sleep disorders triggered by a bad virus I had during flight school. Everything kept getting worse until it all came to a head one night pulling a 24-hour medevac shift one night and getting a migraine that completely laid me out. If we would have gotten a call I would have been at worst, completely unable to go, and at best would have dragged myself but been nothing more than self-loading ballast. That triggered a bunch of medical appointments and 5 months (so far) of trying to determine if Ive just got the one rare sleep disorder, or two. Severity is like narcolepsy. Not even waiverable for civilian flying.

 

Damn, I'm really sorry to hear about this Lindsey. I wish you the best.

[mike0331]

That blows. Goes without saying, but make sure all that is super well documented.

 

Mike

[SBuzzkill]

So as a civ that's been working on a WOFT packet, this is all pretty discouraging. I'm 30 years old, at 350 hours FW commercial, college degree, decent salary in the tech field... I've been fairly set on doing military flying for a while. Army is my only option now due to age. Guard research tells me that they don't take non-prior guys.

 

Do you salty warrants have any advice for civ guys wanting to go active?

 

 

Dude, don't even let it sway your decision. If you really want to fly for the military now is the time to apply, and your last chance. I wouldn't trade my time for anything and it has put me in the position I am in now, which is so much better than I could have imagined when I applied for the Army 9 years ago.

 

There's a lot of salty folks on here for sure, but most of them have put in their time and are at the end of the road. You're just starting down it! I'll tell you there are definitely bad days, but there are also some incredible ones that you will never forget.

 

Financially you're probably much better off heading for the airlines as soon as you can. But you're going to do some awesome stuff with the Army. And while most of us grumble and whine, the majority of guys and gals doing the bitching wouldn't even have touched the controls of an aircraft if it wasn't for WOFT.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SBuzzkill

[Luofynerd]

Severe, frequent, incapacitating migraines coupled with 1, maybe 2, rare sleep disorders triggered by a bad virus I had during flight school. Everything kept getting worse until it all came to a head one night pulling a 24-hour medevac shift one night and getting a migraine that completely laid me out. If we would have gotten a call I would have been at worst, completely unable to go, and at best would have dragged myself but been nothing more than self-loading ballast. That triggered a bunch of medical appointments and 5 months (so far) of trying to determine if Ive just got the one rare sleep disorder, or two. Severity is like narcolepsy. Not even waiverable for civilian flying.

Sorry to hear that. I've been following your posts for literal yeaaaars. I hope for your sake that everything works out for the best. I feel like everything you've gone through; LASIK, WOFT, etc all helped me, as well as a lot of other people on here get the knowledge to do it ourselves. So definitely grateful to your woft guide and constant dedication to this forum. Even though I think you accused me of being shindig once lmao. 😂

[Lindsey]

Even though I think you accused me of being shindig once lmao. 😂

You probably deserved it.

[Cubicle2Cockpit]

if any of you seasoned WOs could go back and choose a C10 instead of helo if it meant more flight hours and less time doing Army malarkey that doesn't pertain to aviation, would you? I don't know if that is even the case with current C10 WOs...

[Lindsey]

Do you mean C12?

[Cubicle2Cockpit]

Yes sorry I meant C12

[StockTrader]

if any of you seasoned WOs could go back and choose a C10 instead of helo if it meant more flight hours and less time doing Army malarkey that doesn't pertain to aviation, would you? I don't know if that is even the case with current C10 WOs...

Nope. I joined with the hope of getting the aircraft I currently fly. The only thing that I would leave it for is 160th or a unit with an unknown name if I got the chance.

[zion]

if any of you seasoned WOs could go back and choose a C10 instead of helo if it meant more flight hours and less time doing Army malarkey that doesn't pertain to aviation, would you? I don't know if that is even the case with current C10 WOs...

I was in the 60 course when "fixed wing for life" was implemented.

 

My Army Plan at the beginning of flight school was to select Blackhawks, deploy with Blackhawks, transition to C-12s, fly a rotation of C-12s, then take the needs of the army until completion of 20.

 

IMO, one extra idea the army could reverse, would be to bring back the fixed wing transition.

 

What junior CW2 with at least 1500 hours at the end of their ADSO wouldn't jump ship with the current army pay (even with the bonus)? The people that would stay fixed wing until 20 would be the "maybe prior enlisted, yet definitely previous helo, my back hurts, but my I still want to fly until retirement, and BRING ON THE FRIDGE FUND AS A CW3!"

[brackac]

if any of you seasoned WOs could go back and choose a C10 instead of helo if it meant more flight hours and less time doing Army malarkey that doesn't pertain to aviation, would you? I don't know if that is even the case with current C10 WOs...

I fly both the 64 and the C12. You will always have Army BS to deal with, they just change the flavor.

 

A previous post of mine about Army FW

 

 

80% of the flying is done on autopilot at FL250. So much for fun flying, but it does allow you to catch up on your Netflix.

- Active Army is moving to a MI heavy FW setup. Even more so than it already is. Most of the VIP slots are going away. This means the duty station choices will primarily be Fort Bliss, Korea, Fort Hood, etc etc. So much for awesome duty stations.

- Your 1st 6+ years as a civilian pilot will be at a pay scale between 27K and 55K annually. Then, as you progress to the position of Captain, you will be stuck on the horrible routes and making not much more until you are senior and flying with one of the big carriers.

- The exotic locations are being dramatically reduced due to the transition of Army FW to almost all MI slots. Hope you consider combat zones as exotic.

- I know multiple FW pilots who would like to talk to you about these 3 month deployments.

- Excellent promotion rates for FW? Now that's funny. Maybe 10 years from now once all of the current W3s and W4s are retired or attrited.

- The FW job is primarily supporting the ground guys seeing that you are an aerial intel asset.

- I averaged fewer flight hours annually in FW than I did in RW

- Super chill community? Nah. It's still an Army aviation unit. You still have the additional duties, annual requirements. BS meetings, and typical Army frustrations.

- Yes, you wil be afforded the opportunity to pick up different airframes. C-12/RC-12/Dash 7. Get the picture?

 

Yes, there are sweet jobs in FW, just as there are in RW. Yes, there are cushy exotic locations in FW, just as there are in RW, but it's true that FW does have more currently. Reality is the majority of future FW jobs are going to be MI, in direct support of the ground guys, which means you deploy. If you pick an airframe off future possibilities, you might be thoroughly disappointed with the present reality.

[DaveC]

I'm on the same page as zion. Joined to fly helicopters, but the only way I could see myself continuing in the Army would be in a FW slot (or 160th if I weren't so broken)

 

Sadly HRC doesn't seem interested in negotiating and instead has a "take what we give you or get out" approach to talent management. Their words, not mine.

[wheelsup]

M

 

80% of the flying is done on autopilot at FL250. So much for fun flying, but it does allow you to catch up on your Netflix.

 

I met a cw5 who transitioned from 160th as a 47 pilot who said the same thing verbatim.. it really stuck with me

[dirtyfoot]

10 years active, with the last year spent in one of the busiest Attack Reconnaissance Battalions in the Army. No way I would ever regret staying active, despite the G1/HRC SNAFUs. Very curious to see what the bottom of the barrel PI's are gunna look like in a couple years now that they pickin up errbody round here, though.

[mcclainm]

 

 

So, just to be clear, I am not arguing against the field and CTC rotations. However, the frequency of them is totally unnecessary. 90% of the training done at those rotations can be done at a home station, if the time at home station was devoted to training instead of maintaining 350-1 currency. CTC rotations have their place, and that place is certifying units to be ready for war. Home station training should be preparation for CTC, which should be preparation for war. Our BN is scheduled for 3 CTC rotations in FY18, immediately after a combat rotation. It's a bit much.

I think you and I are in the same CAB.

[Cmh029]

Man, they had promised me 20,000 dollars in accession bonus payments and then took it away last minute. Then, because of that, I lost my reenlistment bonus. Got stuck out of both. Now they are on the verge of bringing it back? Ive already been accepted and am going to WOCS soon. Talk about bad timing on my part.

[brackac]

The number of pilots who have signed on for the bonus so far is laughably low.

[ByteFlighter]

Hopefully we don't get into a situation like the Air Force just found themselves in. The President just signed an executive order allowing the AF to recall up to 1000 retired pilots to active duty to stop the bleeding. This is up from the previous number of pilots allowed to be recalled : 25.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/

[ByteFlighter]

I fly both the 64 and the C12. You will always have Army BS to deal with, they just change the flavor.

 

A previous post of mine about Army FW

 

 

80% of the flying is done on autopilot at FL250. So much for fun flying, but it does allow you to catch up on your Netflix.

- Active Army is moving to a MI heavy FW setup. Even more so than it already is. Most of the VIP slots are going away. This means the duty station choices will primarily be Fort Bliss, Korea, Fort Hood, etc etc. So much for awesome duty stations.

- Your 1st 6+ years as a civilian pilot will be at a pay scale between 27K and 55K annually. Then, as you progress to the position of Captain, you will be stuck on the horrible routes and making not much more until you are senior and flying with one of the big carriers.

- The exotic locations are being dramatically reduced due to the transition of Army FW to almost all MI slots. Hope you consider combat zones as exotic.

- I know multiple FW pilots who would like to talk to you about these 3 month deployments.

- Excellent promotion rates for FW? Now that's funny. Maybe 10 years from now once all of the current W3s and W4s are retired or attrited.

- The FW job is primarily supporting the ground guys seeing that you are an aerial intel asset.

- I averaged fewer flight hours annually in FW than I did in RW

- Super chill community? Nah. It's still an Army aviation unit. You still have the additional duties, annual requirements. BS meetings, and typical Army frustrations.

- Yes, you wil be afforded the opportunity to pick up different airframes. C-12/RC-12/Dash 7. Get the picture?

 

Yes, there are sweet jobs in FW, just as there are in RW. Yes, there are cushy exotic locations in FW, just as there are in RW, but it's true that FW does have more currently. Reality is the majority of future FW jobs are going to be MI, in direct support of the ground guys, which means you deploy. If you pick an airframe off future possibilities, you might be thoroughly disappointed with the present reality.

 

 

Good write up. Though your info about after Army airline flying is wrong. 55k is right around first year pay and its only going up for the foreseeable future. Not to mention you can pick and choose your job as every regional and some LCC majors will bend over backwards just to taste your sweet sweet stix skillz.

[brackac]

 

 

Good write up. Though your info about after Army airline flying is wrong. 55k is right around first year pay and its only going up for the foreseeable future. Not to mention you can pick and choose your job as every regional and some LCC majors will bend over backwards just to taste your sweet sweet stix skillz.

The 55k first year pay you state isnt inline with reality. I can call 5 people right now who are in their 1st year with the airlines and they will verify it. You cant include the signing bonus being thrown at new hires because that goes directly to your training.

[Creep0321]

The number of pilots who have signed on for the bonus so far is laughably low.

considering there is precisely one individual who qualifies at my unit, it doesnt surprise me.

[ByteFlighter]

The 55k first year pay you state isnt inline with reality. I can call 5 people right now who are in their 1st year with the airlines and they will verify it. You cant include the signing bonus being thrown at new hires because that goes directly to your training.

 

Directly to what training? You should re-examine your figures. 2 to 3 years ago you were 100% correct. Today you are not. I am referring to Army FW to airline transition not RW to airline FW transition programs, then what you are saying is actually correct except you leave out the fact that the airlines are actually paying for your FW transition (or at least a large portion). in fact, first year pay at the more competitive regional is around 60k. Is that base pay? no, but take home gross is what matters.

 

 

ANY military FW pilot that doesn't get into the Majors right away, can get into, at the very LEAST, the highest paying regional out there. That military experience is sought after way more than the civilian experience; even at a time when the civilian experience is highly sought after because of the shortage at regionals.

 

And to cite my info : https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

 

I know plenty of guys & one gal at the airlines right now. Though most of em are at Legacy or major LCC, a few are in the regional world whom all say the first year pay is ridiculously high compared to a few years ago.

[brackac]

 

 

ANY military FW pilot that doesn't get into the Majors right away, can get into, at the very LEAST, the highest paying regional out there. That military experience is sought after way more than the civilian experience; even at a time when the civilian experience is highly sought

 

I know plenty of guys & one gal at the airlines right now. Though most of em are at Legacy or major LCC, a few are in the regional world whom all say the first year pay is ridiculously high compared to a few years ago.

I am an ATP holding military FW pilot who is in the process of retiring and looking at all of my opportunities, both flying and non flying, post military. What you are saying sounds all warm and fuzzy, but its not reality.