Army G1 WO Information

[stearmann4]

This came across my desk from the G1 via the flag route;

 

Subject: G-1 Sends for Warrant Officer Aviation Retention (UNCLASSIFIED)

 

Fellow General Officers and Commanders,

 

We are short active duty warrant officer aviators. This is a result of

under assessing driven by fiscal constraints of the past few years which

resulted in training fewer Army Aviators than required. Additionally we are

also in the midst of a strong civilian job market that seeks to employ our

current population of talented aviators.

 

Our first priority is to increase Regular Army Warrant Officer Aviator

accessions and training throughput to match the requirements. Starting in

FY17, we increased our accessions mission and have coordinated Training

Resource Arbitration Panel actions to ensure the appropriate number of

aviator candidates are selected and begin the accessions process.

Accessions will continue to surge through FY19 in order to rebuild the

Warrant Officer Aviator foundation.

 

We must also reduce attrition below normal levels until accessions can

rebuild the base. We will accomplish lower attrition by offering monetary

and non-monetary incentives. Beginning in FY18, Regular Army Warrant

Officers and a limited number of Active Duty for Operational Support Reserve

Component aviators in select specialties may qualify for the Aviation Bonus.

Aviators who agree to an additional Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO)

may be eligible for the talent management based incentives that vary based

upon aviator career advancement and aircraft qualification.

We will also explore ways to stabilize the force through non-monetary

changes in continuing education programs, assignment stabilization at

critical locations, and promotion policies. Over the past two years aviator

promotion rates have stabilized and we will continue to ensure promotion

opportunity for our top performers. In addition to the accession and

retention efforts we are also evaluating our ADSO and Active Federal Service

policies for new aviators to ensure longevity and retention of their skills

and experience.

 

Would appreciate your encouragement to our current aviation warrant

officers to continue to serve. Would also ask for you to help us identify

NCOs who would be great warrant officer candidates and future aviation

warrant officers.

 

Thanks for all that you do!

 

VR

Tom Seamands

 

 

[akscott60]

Lulz. They truly have to idea how to retain people.

[Singhdrewan]

Reassuring for me. Can't wait until my final eye exam next month to pick up and continue my packet progression.

[Stump]

This sort of gives me a little less to worry about, Ive decided to just knock out my bachelors degree and Ive been following along for months and seen the super high selection rates and was a bit worried I wouldnt fair the same fate two years from now (even though Id have a bachelors degree and a CPL-FW vs a highschool degree and a PPL).

[DaveC]

Lulz. They truly have to idea how to retain people.

It's not that complicated either. Apparently no one at G1 had stood up and asked "what if we stop treating people like garbage?"

[Tradewinds]

It's not that complicated either. Apparently no one at G1 had stood up and asked "what if we stop treating people like garbage?"

 

What are the most common complaints among the WO Aviators, and what could be done to improve retention and morale?

[Lindsey]

The Army should have a show on Comedy Central.

[Lindsey]

 

What are the most common complaints among the WO Aviators, and what could be done to improve retention and morale?

They are taking the Warrant out of Warrant Officer and the Aviator out of Aviator.

[akscott60]

They are taking the Warrant out of Warrant Officer and the Aviator out of Aviator.

 

Exactly. My job is more about making metric slides green than flying helicopters. Let alone crushing morale and never ending BS.

 

And the bonus is a joke.

[Lindsey]

Not to mention the bonus completely omits anyone between 11-19 years of service--so basically the majority of those fighting both wars for the past 14-16 years. And/or those who had decent enlisted time.

[Stump]

Would you guys go through this again knowing what you now know?

 

My parents were both made a career out of the Army - my mother went from enlisted to commissioned and my dad ended up becoming a maitence Warrant Officer. Its honestly the one reason I didnt join straight out of highschool and no longer think about making a career out of the military because Ive seen that this probably isnt for me long term but I figured Id give a couple years a shot.

 

 

My opportunity cost for joining the military would be flying rich people in part 91/135 ops, which is why Im leaning towards flying for the army reserves.

[mike0331]

I don't think anyone knows how they'll feel about how long they'll serve until after their first enlistment... and second... and third. Most don't make a career out of it. Plenty who do had no intention to.

[Lindsey]

I would do it again. But I'd be doing a helluva lot more FW flying on the side, and probably would have gone Guard.

[WOCDANIELS23]

I would do it again. But I'd be doing a helluva lot more FW flying on the side, and probably would have gone Guard.

Why would you choose Guard over AD? Just love seeing what Active aviators view as pros and cons and I see you're a prominent poster and well respected in these forums. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

 

(I'm in the Guard just waiting to leave for flight school since January...... )

[Lindsey]

Why would you choose Guard over AD? Just love seeing what Active aviators view as pros and cons and I see you're a prominent poster and well respected in these forums. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

 

(I'm in the Guard just waiting to leave for flight school since January...... )

Since I had a few hundred hours of flight time before the military I'd be eligible for the RTP programs the regionals have. Being Guard would have allowed me to jump on that ship the second I heard it was approaching port. Seriously though--if you'd have asked me two years ago my feelings on FW and the airlines, my opinion was a complete 180. Times change, experiences change, industries change, and reality changes. The new reality is that if you want a job where you are more than adequately compensated for your skill set, combined with more than adequate time off (that means time for family/travel), you just can't beat the current situation flying jets. The Army's newest retention program, if you can call it that, just shines a huge spotlight on how little it values its Aviators. That being said, I would absolutely not go back and NOT do it. But being Guard would, in this climate, be the best of both worlds. When I joined, the regionals were still paying $20k a year and QOL was laughable. Well, the airline pilots are laughing now.

[DaveC]

Would you guys go through this again knowing what you now know?

 

My parents were both made a career out of the Army - my mother went from enlisted to commissioned and my dad ended up becoming a maitence Warrant Officer. Its honestly the one reason I didnt join straight out of highschool and no longer think about making a career out of the military because Ive seen that this probably isnt for me long term but I figured Id give a couple years a shot.

 

 

My opportunity cost for joining the military would be flying rich people in part 91/135 ops, which is why Im leaning towards flying for the army reserves.

As someone who came from civilian FW (part 135 check hauling at the time, nothing particularly glamorous or lucrative), I would have gone Guard or Reserves if I could do it again. I couldn't find a unit that would let me go street to seat, but in hindsight I should have enlisted in a Guard/Reserve unit and applied for WOFT later.

 

I've had some amazing experiences in Army Aviation, but the opportunity costs just aren't worth it when I could have had most of the same experiences without the downsides of AD by going Guard.

[akscott60]

I would do it all over......as a Guard bum.

[mike0331]

What has everyone else heard about Guard pilots getting similar hours?

 

On a non-aviation reserves/guard note, I still caution people against it unless they have something going on "in real life." I was in a great unit and got a deployment in in the USMCR, but I was also in school full time. Plenty of people with careers and good full time work got what they wanted out of it as well. The guys who were looking for a military career but didn't want to commit to active duty were much more disappointed than those of us who just wanted it to be a weekend thing while we went about whatever else we were doing.

Mike

[DMoss]

This whole thing is just hilarious. No way is the army going to retain any significant number of quality aviators with this slap in the face. I would say more are considering getting out now after the bonus info was released. The opportunities in the civilian world are just phenomenal, and they keep getting better with the influx of retirements that were caused by the increase in airline retirement age that happened a while back. For most this is a no-brainer decision, unless the 'serving' factor heavily outweighs the financial/quality of life benefits the civilian world offers. 18k/yr at best, until your 15th year then it goes away, that just won't do it - no way I can convince my wife that would be worth her enduring more army.

 

Guard note: My guard buddies are logging more than I am as active. It's not uncommon that aviators don't fly for a year after flight school (I sat for 8 months). I would absolutely go guard over active, if I had to do it all over. Without a doubt.

[Ritter]

Army Reserves ftw. All the fun stuff with only 20 percent of the dumb stuff. Plus I can have a civilian flying job.

[SBuzzkill]

I'm ADSO complete and would be eligible for the bonus if I accepted the AH-64 transition but instead I'm getting out. I'm looking to put down some roots and having some good family time. I also look forward to having the freedom to go anywhere I want during my time off without telling anyone, to not worry about keeping my hair short and my waistline within the standard, and to have more say in where I go and who I work for.

 

It would take a lot bigger bonus to tempt me away from all that.

 

That said, I have nothing to complain about. The Army kept me in a cockpit while I fulfilled my 6 year obligation and for that I'm grateful. The same couldn't be said for the airlines the last time they made budget cuts. I had many friends who went back to work in the shipyard while they awaited the end of their furloughs.

Edited September 28, 2017 by SBuzzkill

[Tradewinds]

A follow up question.

 

If you were to write a proposal for retention of WO Aviators, what suggestions would you include?

 

Take into consideration that a significant increase in the budget would be needed to make things like more flight time possible.

 

Very interesting insight and comments so far.

[Lindsey]

Well considering Congress has already authorized $25,000 per Aviator per year that the Army just simply refuses to hand out, that would be a good place to start.

[mike0331]

How does the math even work? I'm no business student, but from what I understand it costs about ~1M to train a new pilot. Figure if a pilot is flying ~100 hours a year at ~2K an hour, that is another 600K at the end of a 6 year ADSO, plus god knows how many other schools, invaluable experience, etc. At this point most pilots probably only have another 6-10 years left in them, which even at a substantial bonus ~100K+ per year is less than acquiring brand new pilots.

Now I don't expect 100k/year bonuses, but there must be some figure they could put out there that would save them money.

Even as a RESERVIST grunt they were offering like 15/3 for sergeants in 2014. And this is the cheap ass USMC.

 

Mike

[SBuzzkill]

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_20_200202.pdf

 

Just FYI for those interested in where the $25,000 figure is coming from.

 

Some key points:

 

 

 

200201. Effective October 1, 1999, to qualify for an aviation bonus under this chapter, an officer shall:

1. Be entitled to aviation career incentive pay (ACIP).

2. Be in a pay grade below O-7 (although the Secretary of the Military Department concerned may establish more restrictive requirements).

3. Be qualified to perform operational flying duty.

4. Have completed any active duty service commitment incurred for undergraduate aviator training.

 

 

2003 COMPUTATION

The amount of a retention bonus authorized under this chapter, for agreements submitted on or after October 1, 1999, may not be more than $25,000 for each year covered by the agreement to remain on active duty.

Edited September 28, 2017 by SBuzzkill