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ALARACT 085/2017


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#1 dirtyfoot

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 23:54

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

That is all.
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#2 Lindsey

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:15

Hahahaha, yeah see the Army G1 thread. But yeah, hahaha.

#3 dovq2011

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:19

Really glad that 5 years into my ADSO will be my 11th year... haha.



#4 Creep0321

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:49

Yea, it does nothing other than provide people that already were going to stay in extra money in their pocket. Not enough to keep folks around. IMO.

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#5 dovq2011

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 14:12

Yea, it does nothing other than provide people that already were going to stay in extra money in their pocket. Not enough to keep folks around. IMO.

How astute of you buddy.



#6 itsbigfootguys

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 12:30

Yea, it does nothing other than provide people that already were going to stay in extra money in their pocket. Not enough to keep folks around. IMO.

 

 

This was the conversation we were having in our unit before the bonuses were even announced. We knew unless it was HUGE money, it was only going to pad the pockets of those already planning to stay in. 

 

The Army needed to catch all those dudes on the fence about calling Envoy. They are foolishly assuming that guys with 15 years TIS would rather suck it up and make their 20, rather than start over in the airlines. 

 

Unfortunately for the Army, that's very much not true, and it is about to be a very painful lesson



#7 dirtyfoot

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 00:14

Here's a good take on it.


https://theaviatorag...-right-for-you/
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#8 DaveC

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:27

 
 
This was the conversation we were having in our unit before the bonuses were even announced. We knew unless it was HUGE money, it was only going to pad the pockets of those already planning to stay in. 
 
The Army needed to catch all those dudes on the fence about calling Envoy. They are foolishly assuming that guys with 15 years TIS would rather suck it up and make their 20, rather than start over in the airlines. 
 
Unfortunately for the Army, that's very much not true, and it is about to be a very painful lesson

Just had a guy I work with turn down W3 at 15 years to make the switch.

See the light, push the button, get the banana.


#9 Lindsey

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:46

Just had a guy I work with turn down W3 at 15 years to make the switch.


Yeah, I know several at 15-17 years jumping ship after crunching the numbers. A couple of them are planning to finish out their retirement in the Guard.

#10 stearmann4

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 16:54

That amount is a slap in the face considering all the services are budgeted the same amount for aviator bonuses, the Army just doesn't give it all up. Its gamesmanship, if they don't get the numbers they need you can expect the next round to go up to 25K. For the 15K that's about 11K after taxes.

 

Mike-


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#11 mike0331

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 17:32

So what happens to the funds if they aren't spent? Do they get allocated elsewhere, or just put back into the federal pot at the end of the year?

 

Mike



#12 ByteFlighter

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 21:24

So what happens to the funds if they aren't spent? Do they get allocated elsewhere, or just put back into the federal pot at the end of the year?

 

Mike

 

 

No, the budget rarely works like that. They pretty much are "forced" to spend what ever congress allocates them before the end of the fiscal year. I'd say a large chunk of this money get funneled towards defense contracts (as the budget reports seem to show). I mean how much money do you think the Army throws into the design of 10-15 different future lift prototypes only to chose one, maybe two that will ultimately be delivered over budget and behind schedule? (Think RAH-66 Comanche $9.15 Billion program)

 

I know I sound cynical here but I literally did my senior thesis on some of the Military's "next gen" aircraft programs that tend to eat up an astronomical amount of specific budget allocations (By specialty like Aviation). This is before the same defense companies deliver a faulty system only to charge the Military even more money to "analyze" and "fix" the issues they've already be paid to produce.

 

I am somewhat optimistic here in the context of new leadership at the Pentagon. It has been quite a while since the DOD has seen a Flag Officer (whom actually deserves every star) at the helm. I really can't see Army brass hiding this issue (pilots) under their desk much longer as Aviation is a huge force multiplier to an Infantry focused branch. This is even more relevant considering Army Brass know Mattis has a history of relieving incompetent high level Officers of their command and sidearm on the spot.

 

Though I will warn you, I haven't been subordinate to the Green Weenie's command for very long so my opinions probably don't mean much.



#13 mike0331

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:46

Wasn't sure how direct they had to be in how they spent the bonus money. I could look it up... but meh. 

 

From what I understand FVL is actually pretty cheap at the design phase. That is compared to say almost every other aviation program. 

 

Mike



#14 stearmann4

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 14:33

So what happens to the funds if they aren't spent? Do they get allocated elsewhere, or just put back into the federal pot at the end of the year?

 

Mike

Congress allocates a service a specified amount per aviator. In this case it's $25,000/year to offer as a retention bonus. Congress however, does not specify how the money is spent. The Air Force and Navy provide the full amount to the aviators, the Army in some cases doesn't, which is why you see bonuses of 15 and 18K versus the full 25K. The only enterprise seeing full value retention bonuses is ARSOA, and even they've changed how they dole out money. The amount of your bonus is now linked directly to the level of your qualification (I.e. BMQ/FMQ/FLD/ME, etc) and you aren't eligible until you've completed your 6 year winging ADSO and your 4-year ARSOA ADSO. If you were past your 6-year winging ADSO, you'd sign for the 25K/year bonus tax free the first week you walked into the company.

 

We used to get an $1,000/month just for being over 20 years AFS, that too has gone away in lieu of the graduated bonus scale.

 

Mike-

 

Mike-


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#15 dirtyfoot

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:50

We'll see how it plays out I suppose. I was butthurt about the 11 years AFS stipulation, but to be perfectly honest, I wasn't even considering getting out, and 15k a year extra wouldn't have convinced me to stay if I had been. I think if big Army does decide to give a sh*t, they should put their ears to the ground and realize that money isn't the issue, quality of life is.

 

For instance: forcing guys to waste nine months of their lives "deployed" to Europe without their families and zero COLA payments (despite the substantial dollar vs. euro difference), mandating PCS every 3-4 years, HRC telling most guys to go f themselves when it comes to desired duty station, the continued trend of forcing WO's to focus on tasks well outside the scope of their duties, etc. 

 

I can't even imagine how many retirement packets some of these boneheaded MO's continue to generate. 



#16 Tradewinds

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 16:41

 the continued trend of forcing WO's to focus on tasks well outside the scope of their duties, etc. 

 

 

Just to clarify for those that will soon be new to Army Aviation, what would be considered In the scope of a WO duties, and what tasks are being assigned that are outside that scope. Given the Average number of flight hours and prep per week, what are the duties that would be considered within the scope that could be tasked when not flying.



#17 ByteFlighter

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 16:49

Wasn't sure how direct they had to be in how they spent the bonus money. I could look it up... but meh. 

 

From what I understand FVL is actually pretty cheap at the design phase. That is compared to say almost every other aviation program. 

 

Mike

 

 

Right, maybe compared to the F-22 at $64 billion I could see that. The only thing that seems confusing to me is the idea that you could give the entire enlisted force of the Military a 20% pay increase for the price of the entire RAH-66 Comanche program that produced a total of 2 a/c (one of which I heard is hidden somewhere on Mother Rucker?) My understanding is this FVL program is too similar to the RAH-66 but about 5 times as broad in scope......

 

Very curious to see how long the Brass will let retention issues drag on for...



#18 SBuzzkill

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 17:24

Nevermind.


Edited by SBuzzkill, 06 October 2017 - 21:40.


#19 Creep0321

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 01:03

 
 
Right, maybe compared to the F-22 at $64 billion I could see that. The only thing that seems confusing to me is the idea that you could give the entire enlisted force of the Military a 20% pay increase for the price of the entire RAH-66 Comanche program that produced a total of 2 a/c (one of which I heard is hidden somewhere on Mother Rucker?) My understanding is this FVL program is too similar to the RAH-66 but about 5 times as broad in scope......
 
Very curious to see how long the Brass will let retention issues drag on for...


Hidden in plain sight, in the museum. At least it was back in March.

Swift, Silent, Deadly.


#20 ElJay

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:09

It's still there. Only aircraft they don't exhibit is an Apache.




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