Jump to content


Helicopter AcademyFrasca VRForum468VOLO_VRHome200TigerTugs
Photo
- - - - -

Cloud Clearance/Visibility Requirements in Restricted Area


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 01CelicaGTS

01CelicaGTS

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Family, Flying Helicopters, Riding Motorcycles, Barbequing
  • Company working for:US Army

Posted 10 February 2018 - 23:49

OK, so we all know the cloud clearance and visibility requirements for classes of airspace (A, B, C, D, E, and G).  But do these requirements apply in restricted areas?  If I am in a restricted area at 1500' I would be in Class E (if the restricted area was not taken into account), so do I apply the Class E cloud clearance and visibility requirements? 

 

The AIM states that "There are two categories of airspace or airspace areas: Regulatory (Class A, B, C, D and E airspace areas and restricted or prohibited areas); and Nonregulatory (military operations areas (MOAs), warning areas, alert areas, and controlled firing areas)."

Also,

"Within these two categories, there are four types: Controlled, Uncontrolled, Special use, and Other airspace."

 

So, the AIM categorizes the classes (A, B, C, D, E, and G) differently than the restricted or prohibited area.  AR 95-1 and FAR 91.155 list the basic VFR weather minimums for only the classes. 

 

Back to being at 1500' in a restricted area.  If I am at 1500' in a restricted area (and I don't have any SOP/briefing restrictions), I should be able to operate with less than 500' cloud clearance and less than 3 miles of visibility legally.  I would assume that the only requirements I have would be set forth by the rules governing that restricted area.  For example, R3002 around Fort Benning is covered by the Fort Benning 95-1.  Is this a correct assumption?


  • Dmurray likes this

#2 Thedude

Thedude

    VR Veteran Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 107 posts

Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:11

My opinion is that the restricted area is still a part of the airspace in which it lies and the appropriate weather minimums apply. Special use airspace is a subset of regulatory airspace which has defined weather mins.
  • walkerman180 likes this

#3 SBuzzkill

SBuzzkill

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast

Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:19

Good question.  Doing some research.


Edited by SBuzzkill, 11 February 2018 - 10:33.


#4 Hotdogs

Hotdogs

    VR Veteran Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Company working for:Marines

Posted 11 February 2018 - 14:04

I believe this falls under MARSA. Most restricted areas have their own policies regarding visibility requirements and aircraft usage requirements. They might differ depending on who owns the range complex. Most ranges have radar that is advisory only that gives alerts and deconflict airspace for multiple aircraft operating with in a certain area. Additionally, the military also uses different types of deconfliction through various means to ensure we don't hit each other. That can consist of detailed planning, A/A radar, air-air tacans, Link 16, organic procedural command and control agencies, and positive control from JTACs or FAC(A)s to ensure airspace separation. Obviously this varies depending on TMS and service.

 

 

2111. USE OF MARSA

a. MARSA may only be applied to military operations specified in a letter of agreement or other appropriate FAA or military document.

NOTE

Application of MARSA is a military command prerogative. It will not be invoked indiscriminately by individual units or pilots. It will be used only for IFR operations requiring its use. Commands authorizing MARSA will ensure that its implementation and terms of use are documented and coordinated with the control agency having jurisdiction over the area in which the operations are conducted. Terms of use will assign responsibility and provide for separation among participating aircraft.

b. ATC facilities do not invoke or deny MARSA. Their sole responsibility concerning the use of MARSA is to provide separation between military aircraft engaged in MARSA operations and other nonparticipating IFR aircraft.

c. DOD must ensure that military pilots requesting special-use airspace/ATCAAs have coordinated with the scheduling agency, have obtained approval for entry, and are familiar with the appropriate MARSA procedures. ATC is not responsible for determining which military aircraft are authorized to enter special-use airspace/ATCAAs. 

 

https://www.faa.gov/...a/Order/ATC.pdf

 

 

***...I think I just nuked the OPs question***

 

Bottom line: When Im inside a range complex, I follow that range complexes policies with regard to cloud and visibility requirements....


  • akscott60 and Dmurray like this

#5 zion

zion

    ATP Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savannah, GA

Posted 12 February 2018 - 21:41

From the AIM:

 

3−4−1. General
a. Special use airspace consists of that airspace
wherein activities must be confined because of their
nature, or wherein limitations are imposed upon
aircraft operations that are not a part of those
activities, or both. Except for controlled firing areas,
special use airspace areas are depicted on aeronautical
charts.
b. Prohibited and restricted areas are regulatory
special use airspace and are established in 14 CFR
Part 73 through the rulemaking process.


#6 01CelicaGTS

01CelicaGTS

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Family, Flying Helicopters, Riding Motorcycles, Barbequing
  • Company working for:US Army

Posted 16 February 2018 - 16:21

From the AIM:
 
3−4−1. General
a. Special use airspace consists of that airspace
wherein activities must be confined because of their
nature, or wherein limitations are imposed upon
aircraft operations that are not a part of those
activities, or both. Except for controlled firing areas,
special use airspace areas are depicted on aeronautical
charts.
b. Prohibited and restricted areas are regulatory
special use airspace and are established in 14 CFR
Part 73 through the rulemaking process.

Yes, they are regulatory. But that doesn't put then into a class of airspace, or even controlled or uncontrolled as they are listed separate.

Edited by 01CelicaGTS, 16 February 2018 - 16:22.


#7 zion

zion

    ATP Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savannah, GA

Posted 17 February 2018 - 09:59

Yes, they are regulatory. But that doesn't put then into a class of airspace, or even controlled or uncontrolled as they are listed separate.

3−1−1. General
a. There are two categories of airspace or airspace
areas:
1. Regulatory (Class A, B, C, D and E airspace
areas, restricted and prohibited areas); and
2. Nonregulatory (military operations areas
(MOAs), warning areas, alert areas, and controlled
firing areas).
NOTE−
Additional information on special use airspace (prohibited
areas, restricted areas, warning areas, MOAs, alert areas
and controlled firing areas) may be found in Chapter 3,
Airspace, Section 4, Special Use Airspace, paragraphs
3−4−1 through 3−4−7.
b. Within these two categories, there are four
types:
1. Controlled,
2. Uncontrolled,
3. Special use, and
4. Other airspace.
c. The categories and types of airspace are dictated
by:
1. The complexity or density of aircraft
movements,
2. The nature of the operations conducted
within the airspace,
3. The level of safety required, and
4. The national and public interest.
d. It is important that pilots be familiar with the
operational requirements for each of the various types
or classes of airspace. Subsequent sections will cover
each class in sufficient detail to facilitate
understanding.

 

Back to being at 1500' in a restricted area.  If I am at 1500' in a restricted area (and I don't have any SOP/briefing restrictions), I should be able to operate with less than 500' cloud clearance and less than 3 miles of visibility legally.  I would assume that the only requirements I have would be set forth by the rules governing that restricted area.  For example, R3002 around Fort Benning is covered by the Fort Benning 95-1.  Is this a correct assumption?

 

4−4−6. Special VFR Clearances
a. An ATC clearance must be obtained prior to
operating within a Class B, Class C, Class D, or
Class E surface area when the weather is less than that
required for VFR flight.
 
.....
 
d. Special VFR clearances are effective within
Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas
only.


#8 SBuzzkill

SBuzzkill

    VR Veteran Poster

  • VR Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast

Posted 17 February 2018 - 20:30

I'm not sure what your point is.  Do you think we haven't read through the AIM?


  • Creep0321 and walkerman180 like this

#9 zion

zion

    ATP Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savannah, GA

Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:13

I have always understood it as the restricted airspace takes the overlying airspace and the the controlling agency cannot remove requirements, they can only make it more stringent. Therefore, the AIM (back up by the FAR) takes precedence. Unless someone can say otherwise.

 

There’s nothing at Hunter that allows it at least. Just bringin’ stuff to the conversation. 


  • walkerman180 likes this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users



MaunaLoaVRHome200BE_VRHome200HeliHelmets-VR HomeGenesys VR Forum 200NFCVRForum200HomeSpectrum_VRHome200AMTC 2018PrecisionVRForumHome200